Bunch of Questions....
by Bo Bjering · in Torque Game Engine · 01/04/2009 (12:45 am) · 6 replies
Before considering TGAE for our project, i have to ask about 7.8 trillion questions (give or take a few hehe).
So here goes...
1) Does TGAE compile the intire project into a EXE or does it use like a bunch of external "script" files to run the intire game ?.
2) Can you protect assets/scripts (passworded zip, or custom content system) ?
3) Does the engine support Orthographic view (not all does, i have to ask). ?
4) Can you load/unload map parts while game is running ? (My game will have 9 "map" blocks loaded around player in ortho view to simulate infinite terrain).
4.1) Can you load/unload assets (npc,player,objects ect) on the fly while game is running ? (relates to top).
5) Can you use own network system ?.
6) Can you change all things in engine (water shader and such, to make more realistic water (eg "Similar Crysis" type of water)) ? as the TGEA water is far from pretty :).
7) Does it have Occlusion Culling (check this awesome video on what i mean) http://www.umbrasoftware.com/index.php?videoreel
Prolly some of these questions have been aswered before, or info in the product overview, but asking here seemed alot faster way of getting my "specific" aswers. :)
Might have a few more depending on aswers, so i hope thats okay.
Thanks :)
So here goes...
1) Does TGAE compile the intire project into a EXE or does it use like a bunch of external "script" files to run the intire game ?.
2) Can you protect assets/scripts (passworded zip, or custom content system) ?
3) Does the engine support Orthographic view (not all does, i have to ask). ?
4) Can you load/unload map parts while game is running ? (My game will have 9 "map" blocks loaded around player in ortho view to simulate infinite terrain).
4.1) Can you load/unload assets (npc,player,objects ect) on the fly while game is running ? (relates to top).
5) Can you use own network system ?.
6) Can you change all things in engine (water shader and such, to make more realistic water (eg "Similar Crysis" type of water)) ? as the TGEA water is far from pretty :).
7) Does it have Occlusion Culling (check this awesome video on what i mean) http://www.umbrasoftware.com/index.php?videoreel
Prolly some of these questions have been aswered before, or info in the product overview, but asking here seemed alot faster way of getting my "specific" aswers. :)
Might have a few more depending on aswers, so i hope thats okay.
Thanks :)
#2
2) Aside from what Brian mentions, script files are compiled from the .cs file extensions, into .dso bytecode. From there you can delete all the .cs files, and only the compiled files will remain.
3) I don't believe it supports it natively, though I have seen mentions on an ortho flag. This thread goes into detail about it however, and links to a few good resources as well as techniques.
edit: Scratch that. I just opened the TGEA editors and noticed it had the options for orthographic views while editting, so this means it does support them. Shouldn't be too hard to get it working with a normal camera.
4) Not exactly the way you describe. If you do go with Atlas terrains, they use a "ChunkedLOD" (I believe it is called?) to allow massive terrains in which certain sections de-scale in detail as you get farther from them. Torque also supports tiling terrainBlocks infinitely if you just want the illusion of massive/infinite terrain.
5) Yes, you can use any system, library, change anything in the source. From networking to another physics engine, though I do agree with Brian that TGE(A) has great networking.
6) Personally, I like the TGEA water. And yes, you can change everything in the engine.
7) I know TGE(A) has multiple ways of culling objects. There's the obvious, where anything outside the FoV and anything with over 98% fog over it are not rendered. It uses BSP/Portals for indoor/outdoor scene management, but as far as being as dynamic as the video you linked, I do not think it does (though it may, but I've never tested anything of that sort).
01/04/2009 (12:03 pm)
1) Brian nailed this one.2) Aside from what Brian mentions, script files are compiled from the .cs file extensions, into .dso bytecode. From there you can delete all the .cs files, and only the compiled files will remain.
3) I don't believe it supports it natively, though I have seen mentions on an ortho flag. This thread goes into detail about it however, and links to a few good resources as well as techniques.
edit: Scratch that. I just opened the TGEA editors and noticed it had the options for orthographic views while editting, so this means it does support them. Shouldn't be too hard to get it working with a normal camera.
4) Not exactly the way you describe. If you do go with Atlas terrains, they use a "ChunkedLOD" (I believe it is called?) to allow massive terrains in which certain sections de-scale in detail as you get farther from them. Torque also supports tiling terrainBlocks infinitely if you just want the illusion of massive/infinite terrain.
5) Yes, you can use any system, library, change anything in the source. From networking to another physics engine, though I do agree with Brian that TGE(A) has great networking.
6) Personally, I like the TGEA water. And yes, you can change everything in the engine.
7) I know TGE(A) has multiple ways of culling objects. There's the obvious, where anything outside the FoV and anything with over 98% fog over it are not rendered. It uses BSP/Portals for indoor/outdoor scene management, but as far as being as dynamic as the video you linked, I do not think it does (though it may, but I've never tested anything of that sort).
#3
The 4 and 4.1 is kind of important to me, my guess is you "can" load npc/players on fly or this engine coudnt be used in multiplayer games.
I see the engine uses "relight scene" thing to make shadows and such on objects, wich could be a problem for me.
So questions (again), Can static objects cast shadows without relighting the scene (background loading) ?.
For MMO & multiplayer games, loading/unloading of resources in background is a must (and if you can load in background i dont see why not be able to load scene map files in background aswell)..
The problem is though, some engines default supports this, and if i have to rewrite the intire engine i woudnt see a good reason to buy it :)
PS. Wasnt able to see the link Morrock, as i didnt license the engine yet i dont have access to that area.
01/04/2009 (2:41 pm)
Thank you, both Brian and Morrock.The 4 and 4.1 is kind of important to me, my guess is you "can" load npc/players on fly or this engine coudnt be used in multiplayer games.
I see the engine uses "relight scene" thing to make shadows and such on objects, wich could be a problem for me.
So questions (again), Can static objects cast shadows without relighting the scene (background loading) ?.
For MMO & multiplayer games, loading/unloading of resources in background is a must (and if you can load in background i dont see why not be able to load scene map files in background aswell)..
The problem is though, some engines default supports this, and if i have to rewrite the intire engine i woudnt see a good reason to buy it :)
PS. Wasnt able to see the link Morrock, as i didnt license the engine yet i dont have access to that area.
#4
Yes, you can load npc's on the fly. The engine does this automatically. If you have the demo, look in server/scripts/aiPlayer.cs. Find the onDeath() function and it will show you how torque reloads an npc after a short interval in time after the npc dies.
Morrocs link led to 2 camera resources that were made. One is an ortho cam.
01/04/2009 (2:58 pm)
Quote:So questions (again), Can static objects cast shadows without relighting the sceneStatic objects (dts) yes. Interior models (dif) no. Static objects, (cars, lightpoles, players, trees, etc...) are exported as dts objects and torque uses their bounding boxes for shadows. Interiors are buildings that never move. Torque lights it at the start of the game.
Yes, you can load npc's on the fly. The engine does this automatically. If you have the demo, look in server/scripts/aiPlayer.cs. Find the onDeath() function and it will show you how torque reloads an npc after a short interval in time after the npc dies.
Morrocs link led to 2 camera resources that were made. One is an ortho cam.
#5
Im gonna look up that file in demo and hope i wont have any more questions :)
01/04/2009 (4:03 pm)
Excellent Mike Rowley, thank you for the fast and pro answer :)Im gonna look up that file in demo and hope i wont have any more questions :)
#6
01/04/2009 (7:41 pm)
Quote: hope i wont have any more questionsThe more you delve into any game or game engine, the more questions you will have. That's what forums are for. :-)
Torque Owner Brian Wilson
2) TGEA supports the .zip format natively, but you will have to implement your own encryption. There are a few resources and forum threads on the topic that should give you what you need to do so.
3) I would assume this is a trivial camera mod. I don't see why it can't be done in TGEA.
4) Dynamic loading I don't believe is an "Out-of-the-box" feature, but it has been done. There are quite a few threads on the subject in the forums and I believe this has been successfully implemented. I'm not sure if there is an available resource for this, but there's enough discussion threads to get you pointed in the right direction to create your own solution.
4.1) Not sure...
5) With the license, you get engine source so you can use your own network system if you want, but TGE/A's networking is considered one of the best in the industry, so you may reconsider this.
6) Water in most engine is usually nothing more than a texture, volumetric fog, and a reflection system. It's all how you chose to use it that determines its appearance. But yes, you have access to the engine source, so it all comes down to your own abilities as to what features can be implemented and to what level of effectiveness.
7) TGEA does have the ability to "render only what you see", but I'm not sure how that is done. Just remember there is a processing overhead to do so, so it's not something that makes sense in all situations. Someone who knows the engine better than I can chime in here...
Hope this helps.