MMOG development team guidlines
by James Daniel · in General Discussion · 12/08/2008 (4:04 pm) · 11 replies
I'm looking for any published(online or hard copy) papers, articles, books, blogs, etc on how to put a development team together. What I'm looking for first are Tables of organization(s) of both successful & unsuccessful games. Next I'd like to get a good idea of the manpower load that is needed or better yet how manpower need can be figured from the concept design and business plan's subscribers estimates.
I have help putting together, and put together, successful game development teams but these have been non-MMOG. I've never worked on a MMOG so I need to find my information someplace other than my own experience.
Any help out there?
I have help putting together, and put together, successful game development teams but these have been non-MMOG. I've never worked on a MMOG so I need to find my information someplace other than my own experience.
Any help out there?
#2
If you still want to make one after reading those books, you're crazy enough you might just finish it.
12/08/2008 (6:45 pm)
There are a couple of books (big, fat ones!) with essays by various industry people on MMO design. It covers all aspects, depending on whether the chapter is by a programmer, designer, artist or less technical person. Dig around on the websites of your fave online bookstores, and you shall find.If you still want to make one after reading those books, you're crazy enough you might just finish it.
#3
This is an entirely Professional operation. Experienced production people (who have dealt with software production) with evolving Business Plan(s). I am now trying to show them just how large a project they are getting into and a very good way to do this is to show them a manpower budget. To do this effectively I need a good feel for size and composition of the development team need to do a MMOG. Not just Tech and Art staffing, but the whole thing from soups to nuts. Once I know what roles are needed in a successful generic MMOG development team I should be able to create a good estimate of needed manpower for the project.
But all I really know now is that a MMOG has many jobs/roles than a CD/DVD game. For example I know the project will need an IT staff but how many and doing what jobs? Will we need a data maven in addition to a database administrator? An if so, why?
P.S. Thanks for the link, I'll be working through it over next few days as time permits.
12/08/2008 (8:24 pm)
Christian,This is an entirely Professional operation. Experienced production people (who have dealt with software production) with evolving Business Plan(s). I am now trying to show them just how large a project they are getting into and a very good way to do this is to show them a manpower budget. To do this effectively I need a good feel for size and composition of the development team need to do a MMOG. Not just Tech and Art staffing, but the whole thing from soups to nuts. Once I know what roles are needed in a successful generic MMOG development team I should be able to create a good estimate of needed manpower for the project.
But all I really know now is that a MMOG has many jobs/roles than a CD/DVD game. For example I know the project will need an IT staff but how many and doing what jobs? Will we need a data maven in addition to a database administrator? An if so, why?
P.S. Thanks for the link, I'll be working through it over next few days as time permits.
#4
It's "Massively Multiplayer Game Development 2", published by Charles River Media. It's full of articles/essays divided into three sections: Design, engineering and production. You might get some good advice out of any of those chapters.
As for staff sizes, I think hiring a head of each department is the first step. An experienced member, who can further advice you on how many you need.
The IT staff is closer to what I'd know from either end of a product: No matter how many you hire, it doesn't feel like enough! On the DB side, having a handful of people on each shift (I'll assume you do what nobody has done before, and work around the clock ;) knowing how to optimise data is useful. But that is also part design/development. Making a game is already complicated, but you elevate it to the next level of pain when you also want persistent data from potentially millions of players to remain consistent, and servers to take a pounding.
Try to make friends with Sony, NCSoft, Blizzard and Cryptic employees :)
12/08/2008 (8:46 pm)
I found the book I have on the subject, and now my back hurts :)It's "Massively Multiplayer Game Development 2", published by Charles River Media. It's full of articles/essays divided into three sections: Design, engineering and production. You might get some good advice out of any of those chapters.
As for staff sizes, I think hiring a head of each department is the first step. An experienced member, who can further advice you on how many you need.
The IT staff is closer to what I'd know from either end of a product: No matter how many you hire, it doesn't feel like enough! On the DB side, having a handful of people on each shift (I'll assume you do what nobody has done before, and work around the clock ;) knowing how to optimise data is useful. But that is also part design/development. Making a game is already complicated, but you elevate it to the next level of pain when you also want persistent data from potentially millions of players to remain consistent, and servers to take a pounding.
Try to make friends with Sony, NCSoft, Blizzard and Cryptic employees :)
#5
Not only have I known of several of the books on MMO design, I have one of them. It is quite good but it has very little on development team structure.
FYI: Thanks for the warning and I'm really not crazy. Through my career I've work on many challenging projects, some of them pushing the limits of computers. MMOGs with their problems of scale seem to me to be an excellent new challenge to take up.
12/08/2008 (8:48 pm)
Ronny,Not only have I known of several of the books on MMO design, I have one of them. It is quite good but it has very little on development team structure.
FYI: Thanks for the warning and I'm really not crazy. Through my career I've work on many challenging projects, some of them pushing the limits of computers. MMOGs with their problems of scale seem to me to be an excellent new challenge to take up.
#6
There are, of course, ways to drastically reduce most of that:
1) Use of contractors for tasks (the indie way).
2) Outsource billing (can be done for microtransactions as well).
3) Co-locate your servers to a NOC.
4) Pre-packaged content for pieces that are not likely to be noticed (honestly, do you know if the trees in your favorite MMO show up in some FPS somewhere?)
Hope that helps.
12/09/2008 (2:13 pm)
I've read somewhere that for every 50,000 concurrent online users, you will need 16 support staff to handle their issues. Don't confuse that with the total population size, which could be as high as a million for the same game, but only have 50,000 online at any given moment. If you increase the complexity of the MMO, then increase the staff size accordingly. Also, you'll need NOC staff, which is a 24/7 business, if you're going to have your own NOC. Think three, 8-hour shifts, plus one for a team lead if it's a big team (even if it's not, you'll have a lot of people in other teams, so can you really set aside the time to mess with 3-4 people seperately? Maybe make one a senior- the day guy- and then have him manage things). You'll need coders and artists, which can weigh in at up to 50 more depending on how you go about development. Then sound people, designers, writers, etc. You're looking at close to 100 people when you throw in office staff such as HR, reception, etc.There are, of course, ways to drastically reduce most of that:
1) Use of contractors for tasks (the indie way).
2) Outsource billing (can be done for microtransactions as well).
3) Co-locate your servers to a NOC.
4) Pre-packaged content for pieces that are not likely to be noticed (honestly, do you know if the trees in your favorite MMO show up in some FPS somewhere?)
Hope that helps.
#7
Also, I'm not sure if you have either game, but I know for a fact that WAR has a Mythic Entertainment "credit" list in the back of the game manual that lists out all the names of people by category of what jobs they have, executives, producers, designers, artists, etc. It's too much for me to take my time to count them all and list by category, but it starts on page 31. From there you can estimate expenditures based on development time and average salaries for various disciplines. Blizzard may have the same for WoW, but I'm not sure because I don't have the manual conveniently available.
As far as cost to "run" the game, I'm pretty sure that Mythic released some information on staffing they'd have at release for customer service, IT, and such, and even if they didn't, like I said I'm sure there is data available as a subsidiary of a publicly traded company.
A summary would be "hundreds" of people worked on these projects over the course of at least 2-3 years (more for Blizzard), and I know Blizzard employs in the thousands at this point for updates and maintenance.
Good luck.
12/09/2008 (3:12 pm)
My suggestion would be to work from numbers for companies you know have been successful. It may take some digging, but I believe both Mythic (WAR), and Blizzard(WoW) are publicly traded through their parent companies (EA and Activision respectively, symbols: ERTS and ATVI). Because they are not "parent" companies, you'd need to dig a bit, but they are most definitely required to detail quite a bit of their expenditures on staff and such.Also, I'm not sure if you have either game, but I know for a fact that WAR has a Mythic Entertainment "credit" list in the back of the game manual that lists out all the names of people by category of what jobs they have, executives, producers, designers, artists, etc. It's too much for me to take my time to count them all and list by category, but it starts on page 31. From there you can estimate expenditures based on development time and average salaries for various disciplines. Blizzard may have the same for WoW, but I'm not sure because I don't have the manual conveniently available.
As far as cost to "run" the game, I'm pretty sure that Mythic released some information on staffing they'd have at release for customer service, IT, and such, and even if they didn't, like I said I'm sure there is data available as a subsidiary of a publicly traded company.
A summary would be "hundreds" of people worked on these projects over the course of at least 2-3 years (more for Blizzard), and I know Blizzard employs in the thousands at this point for updates and maintenance.
Good luck.
#8
My favorite book on the subject is Developing Online Games by Jessica Mulligan and Bridgette Patrovsky ISBN 1-5927-3000-0. While it is now 5 years old, and shows its age a little by questioning Internet distribution (and of course it is pre-WoW), the advice and numbers seem like a great starting point for a given size of project.
As an example, they estimate that a 3 month running cost for a game that supports 30,000 simultaneous players to be $2.1 million. They break this number down into number of community relations people, number of live team developers, billing and account management, server costs, etc. There are a number of assumptions that they spell out in the book to get at that number.
They also detail how a typical dev team ramps up over a three year MMO development phase. Chapter 2, Planning and Budgeting, is likely exactly what you're after.
Of course there are a number of ways to approach a MMO project, as Ted has pointed out. Otherwise there wouldn't be any hope for the rest of us. :o)
- Dave
12/09/2008 (8:53 pm)
Greetings!My favorite book on the subject is Developing Online Games by Jessica Mulligan and Bridgette Patrovsky ISBN 1-5927-3000-0. While it is now 5 years old, and shows its age a little by questioning Internet distribution (and of course it is pre-WoW), the advice and numbers seem like a great starting point for a given size of project.
As an example, they estimate that a 3 month running cost for a game that supports 30,000 simultaneous players to be $2.1 million. They break this number down into number of community relations people, number of live team developers, billing and account management, server costs, etc. There are a number of assumptions that they spell out in the book to get at that number.
They also detail how a typical dev team ramps up over a three year MMO development phase. Chapter 2, Planning and Budgeting, is likely exactly what you're after.
Of course there are a number of ways to approach a MMO project, as Ted has pointed out. Otherwise there wouldn't be any hope for the rest of us. :o)
- Dave
#9
I hadn't looked at "Developing Online Games" before you recommended it. What I can see in the Amazon.com's sample it looks like a good resource.
Thanks for the lead.
I'd still like to find more information. Does anyone know of any Masters or Doctoral thesis' on the subject? With the need for new subjects to write about always plaguing advanced degree candidates I find it hard to be leave that nothing has been written.
12/12/2008 (9:26 am)
David,I hadn't looked at "Developing Online Games" before you recommended it. What I can see in the Amazon.com's sample it looks like a good resource.
Thanks for the lead.
I'd still like to find more information. Does anyone know of any Masters or Doctoral thesis' on the subject? With the need for new subjects to write about always plaguing advanced degree candidates I find it hard to be leave that nothing has been written.
#10
There are tons of CS theses and dissertations on different models on network communication and the maintenance of persistent data. There are a lot of case studies on the management teams behind large corporations. But I do not know if you will find they type of data that you're looking for since that information is often tightly guarded from people who start nosing around, though often spoken of in general terms in interviews. There may definitely be some there, but I haven't seen them. I would love to read them, though. Such things really interest me. Usually what I find as social research projects that explore how players realize themselves in online settings more than how businesses setup and manage complex software teams for such a project. At least not from the academic sector.
12/12/2008 (9:47 am)
The unfortunate side of attempting to research business practices of successful (or unsuccessful) companies is that they are often packaged under the guise of trade secrets that academic researchers who publish to a wide-scale contingent (at least in terms of dissertations and theses). Publishing to trade journals and the like falls to similar problems, though to a much more limited audience. Successful corporations often do not trust academic institutions unless they have a significant stake in the research (grant resources, etc) and a certain amount of control over the data.There are tons of CS theses and dissertations on different models on network communication and the maintenance of persistent data. There are a lot of case studies on the management teams behind large corporations. But I do not know if you will find they type of data that you're looking for since that information is often tightly guarded from people who start nosing around, though often spoken of in general terms in interviews. There may definitely be some there, but I haven't seen them. I would love to read them, though. Such things really interest me. Usually what I find as social research projects that explore how players realize themselves in online settings more than how businesses setup and manage complex software teams for such a project. At least not from the academic sector.
#11
Another book that may help is Business & Legal Primer for Game Development by S. Gregory Boyd and Brian Green.
It sounds like you guys have already gone through the marketing, contracts and IP side of the business, so that part of the book may not be useful. However, Chapter 13: Virtual World Law has some advice on what you'll be getting into from a legal perspective. Also Chapter 14: I Wish I Knew has some great business advice from other MMO developers (and others).
If you don't want to buy the book for only two chapters (assuming the other stuff doesn't apply to your situation), perhaps you can find it at your local library.
- Dave
12/12/2008 (10:03 am)
James,Another book that may help is Business & Legal Primer for Game Development by S. Gregory Boyd and Brian Green.
It sounds like you guys have already gone through the marketing, contracts and IP side of the business, so that part of the book may not be useful. However, Chapter 13: Virtual World Law has some advice on what you'll be getting into from a legal perspective. Also Chapter 14: I Wish I Knew has some great business advice from other MMO developers (and others).
If you don't want to buy the book for only two chapters (assuming the other stuff doesn't apply to your situation), perhaps you can find it at your local library.
- Dave
Torque Owner Christian S
Oak-Entertainment
First; good luck on the project and be ready for a 'hot floor' dance here ;)
A question though; is this 'team' to make a application with someones hobby dream, or is it aimed at producing something that ought to 'go gold' at some point.
If the first is the case, you might pull it through with a lot of grey hair using 'soaked up' community folks to the core (se my previous blogs for a nice wheel of wisdom;) ).
If its the latter, and your aiming for such a insanely huge and consuming thing. Be ready for affiliates that will put this project -last- in most cases. Weekly newsletters, daily attempts at communication, etc. will not be justified if you only aim for free stuff, payment once upon a future or shares of a dream, etc.
But incase you have the code power up the sleeves for this, it is possible though. And for information, try this and/or hook up on some of the very good books theres been done about Persistant worlds, mmo(rpg's), etc.
For actual manpower load, adhere to the design and technical documents your going to do as a FIRST, they should tell about life energy needed to feed the beast.