New Mmorpg In The Works
by Deshawn Brown · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 11/13/2008 (5:27 pm) · 31 replies
I'm working on a new project .It's going to be a Free Browser-Based MMORPG.I have many ideas and plenty of storyline to keep up with user playability.Lot of thought and consideration has gone into the game.There will be plenty of different stories that will take place throuhgout the galaxy.Many different enemy races have there own race background and story that will add to the story complex.Having multiple events occuring at the same time.Many players will have a unique expierence of the games originality and will be over viewed with many twist that will have players wanting more.I will not give much info except that it is in the works.
See you people next time for more news and info as it is near completion...
See you people next time for more news and info as it is near completion...
About the author
I'm a young man studying under game development. I'm skilled in Concept Art, 2D Art and 3D Art. Over achieving in game design features,interface,and the like. I'm also studying many coding languages, but mainly C++.
#23
@Robert J Zamber - Calm down and careful with the language, please.
@Everyone else - There is a lot of good information here, but it is coming in the way of rants and arguments against each other. I'm sure the original poster (Deshawn) can learn from what is being posted, but the rants are really off putting.
I'm not happy with the amount of threads I'm starting to see where there is discouragement being posted instead of applicable information. Granted, this thread is an exception, as some relevant information came in after the cut downs.
Now, that's my input on this thread. Please keep the discussion on track, and the conduct civil.
Edit - I'm actually subscribing and bookmarking this thread. I'm going to strip out the useful information and use it to create a set of docs addressing this "Gold Rush" to create MMOs. I'm going to make this document a PERMANENT link for future community use.
This way, we can avoid the personal attacks on skill and life outlooks, just focusing on posting information relevant to the thread.
11/16/2008 (12:22 pm)
WARNING
@Robert J Zamber - Calm down and careful with the language, please.
@Everyone else - There is a lot of good information here, but it is coming in the way of rants and arguments against each other. I'm sure the original poster (Deshawn) can learn from what is being posted, but the rants are really off putting.
I'm not happy with the amount of threads I'm starting to see where there is discouragement being posted instead of applicable information. Granted, this thread is an exception, as some relevant information came in after the cut downs.
Now, that's my input on this thread. Please keep the discussion on track, and the conduct civil.
Edit - I'm actually subscribing and bookmarking this thread. I'm going to strip out the useful information and use it to create a set of docs addressing this "Gold Rush" to create MMOs. I'm going to make this document a PERMANENT link for future community use.
This way, we can avoid the personal attacks on skill and life outlooks, just focusing on posting information relevant to the thread.
#24
Good idea. Then I and others like me, negatively disposed towards first time MMORPGer's, can refer the oblivious petitioner to a vault of pertinent information that will undoubtedly help them.
However, if the questioner in regards to an MMORPG cannot take some light-hearted jabs at the suspected futility of their endeavor, then this end to their aspirations would inherently be best, rather than any overwhelming sensation of the perceived "complexity" of game development. (Incorrectly perceived because their first project's goals demanded loftier knowledge than was expedient for them to acquire.)
I actually got something useful from this thread. David Stocker stated a very astute idea, that the "best advice for bright eyed novices" who want to create a MMORPG, "is not 'start with a 2D single player game'" but to mod NWN, etc. I used to be a proponent of starting with the "2D single player game", mostly because that is how I started, but lately, I have come to realize that the novice should start with what they want their dream game to be, just on a very, very small scale.
[EDIT] for clarity.
11/16/2008 (12:50 pm)
Quote:
I'm actually subscribing and bookmarking this thread. I'm going to strip out the useful information and use it to create a set of docs addressing this "Gold Rush" to create MMOs. I'm going to make this document a PERMANENT link for future community use.
Good idea. Then I and others like me, negatively disposed towards first time MMORPGer's, can refer the oblivious petitioner to a vault of pertinent information that will undoubtedly help them.
However, if the questioner in regards to an MMORPG cannot take some light-hearted jabs at the suspected futility of their endeavor, then this end to their aspirations would inherently be best, rather than any overwhelming sensation of the perceived "complexity" of game development. (Incorrectly perceived because their first project's goals demanded loftier knowledge than was expedient for them to acquire.)
I actually got something useful from this thread. David Stocker stated a very astute idea, that the "best advice for bright eyed novices" who want to create a MMORPG, "is not 'start with a 2D single player game'" but to mod NWN, etc. I used to be a proponent of starting with the "2D single player game", mostly because that is how I started, but lately, I have come to realize that the novice should start with what they want their dream game to be, just on a very, very small scale.
[EDIT] for clarity.
#25
I really don't think people who encourage others are trying to be unrealistic, and I don't think those who seem pessimistic are trying to be ultra kill joys, lets all remember the internet doesn't really convey our thoughts and souls as well as facial expressions and tones of voice ?? :P
Or even :P smileys, for that matter.
I think those people who want to encourage "Mmo makers" know that the people will run into issues, they are encouraging the persons spirit to learn and try, not to lead them into false hopes, but rather to give them energy to use as long as they desire to use it. There are some folks who are blatant and foolishly positive, "Sure you can become God, just get a majority of votes and bingo you done it!" kinda over the top stuff.
As for the "pessimists" some people are just trying to say "Don't get burned out" but please remember we are all different, I had a hard childhood (but then who doesn't these days? Right?) my point is encouragement helped me far more than "You aren't doing it right" type stuff....Then again, as I grew older I needed people sometimes to tell me it was impossible because I started to seek the very thrill OF proving the naysayers wrong....
Now? Now I just want to follow my dreams, and help others as much as I can.
For those with the Torque Engine, I am positive I could do it all myself.....in about 20 years....Personally? I don't wanna take 20 years, so lets all work together community style and make something happen a bit sooner ok? :)
http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=78551
I am a dreamer and passionate, I won't give this up, but the more help we can get, the more feedback at the least to get us in the direction the community needs/wants to see it develope, the better.
I won't promise the world, I can't after all it isn't mine to give, but I can promise my heart and my efforts,
I don't expect anyone to just follow along without myself proving anything first, we have all been put upon in a negative way in our lives, and treated bad or had our trust broken at least once, Its not unfair to ask someone for proof to have faith in them, faith is trust after all, and trust can be given but its best earned, and shown deserved.
I would prefer replies on the other thread just to keep it neat and orderly, but anywhere is fine, I monitor my posts and threads as they are conversations and people deserve replies and respect.
So what I am saying Edward, is :) you may only see my toes twitching but the reason my Leg isn't fully forward is I see no reason to run off in any direction till i know where everyone wants to run together.
So where do we dreamers run?
Chad.
11/17/2008 (12:00 am)
Edward, Hi :) I note that you mentioned how no one is taking the next step forward in the last thread you posted as a "demo of how to do or not do things" go and see that I am TRYING to take the next step forward, but as you have said :) it takes a community, and thanks for taking the time to give credit where its due.I really don't think people who encourage others are trying to be unrealistic, and I don't think those who seem pessimistic are trying to be ultra kill joys, lets all remember the internet doesn't really convey our thoughts and souls as well as facial expressions and tones of voice ?? :P
Or even :P smileys, for that matter.
I think those people who want to encourage "Mmo makers" know that the people will run into issues, they are encouraging the persons spirit to learn and try, not to lead them into false hopes, but rather to give them energy to use as long as they desire to use it. There are some folks who are blatant and foolishly positive, "Sure you can become God, just get a majority of votes and bingo you done it!" kinda over the top stuff.
As for the "pessimists" some people are just trying to say "Don't get burned out" but please remember we are all different, I had a hard childhood (but then who doesn't these days? Right?) my point is encouragement helped me far more than "You aren't doing it right" type stuff....Then again, as I grew older I needed people sometimes to tell me it was impossible because I started to seek the very thrill OF proving the naysayers wrong....
Now? Now I just want to follow my dreams, and help others as much as I can.
For those with the Torque Engine, I am positive I could do it all myself.....in about 20 years....Personally? I don't wanna take 20 years, so lets all work together community style and make something happen a bit sooner ok? :)
http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=78551
I am a dreamer and passionate, I won't give this up, but the more help we can get, the more feedback at the least to get us in the direction the community needs/wants to see it develope, the better.
I won't promise the world, I can't after all it isn't mine to give, but I can promise my heart and my efforts,
I don't expect anyone to just follow along without myself proving anything first, we have all been put upon in a negative way in our lives, and treated bad or had our trust broken at least once, Its not unfair to ask someone for proof to have faith in them, faith is trust after all, and trust can be given but its best earned, and shown deserved.
I would prefer replies on the other thread just to keep it neat and orderly, but anywhere is fine, I monitor my posts and threads as they are conversations and people deserve replies and respect.
So what I am saying Edward, is :) you may only see my toes twitching but the reason my Leg isn't fully forward is I see no reason to run off in any direction till i know where everyone wants to run together.
So where do we dreamers run?
Chad.
#26
I noted you mentioned a Design Document to one of the Hopeful souls who want to recapture the glory of an Earlier MMO/PW (Persistent World), I know the basics of a Design document, but since you have experience, are there any good books/web sites you would recommend or did you just go it the hard way and become a self taught person?
Additionally, if you could relate some of the biggest pitfalls you had during your development, and unexpected things that came up, for instance now just how a Feature creep affected you (if it did) but how, did you all succumb to temptation of a feature, or was it needed and unforseen.
As you know I am working and will get a Community project off the ground, with the goal of making an MMO/PW Kit, thats a multiplayer or persistent world for those who hate acronyms.
The Kit would be a bridge between Torque and End products such as MoM or PW Space games.
As you yourself know the sheer overhead of an MMO is huge, I am hoping to stream line that, without making it generic by the use of tools and pre-developed scripting, by the efforts of the community, AND at the same time help the community of Indie's grow stronger.
Thanks for anything you can offer!.
Chad (another leg forward for chad, an another little leap for Torque Indie's, Yay)
11/17/2008 (12:27 am)
Edward Hi, I read more of your posts from the links you posted.I noted you mentioned a Design Document to one of the Hopeful souls who want to recapture the glory of an Earlier MMO/PW (Persistent World), I know the basics of a Design document, but since you have experience, are there any good books/web sites you would recommend or did you just go it the hard way and become a self taught person?
Additionally, if you could relate some of the biggest pitfalls you had during your development, and unexpected things that came up, for instance now just how a Feature creep affected you (if it did) but how, did you all succumb to temptation of a feature, or was it needed and unforseen.
As you know I am working and will get a Community project off the ground, with the goal of making an MMO/PW Kit, thats a multiplayer or persistent world for those who hate acronyms.
The Kit would be a bridge between Torque and End products such as MoM or PW Space games.
As you yourself know the sheer overhead of an MMO is huge, I am hoping to stream line that, without making it generic by the use of tools and pre-developed scripting, by the efforts of the community, AND at the same time help the community of Indie's grow stronger.
Thanks for anything you can offer!.
Chad (another leg forward for chad, an another little leap for Torque Indie's, Yay)
#27
What do you mean by streamline and not make it generic? A D20 clone style ruleset is a very different animal than a White Wolf style ruleset. The decision to have levels and classes is usually not even considered, but a good designer considers why they want classes before asking what classes they want. Even seemingly minor technical matters such as inventory are not straightforward. Do you go with endocontainers or exocontainers for inventory storage? Or are you mixing it?
11/17/2008 (5:53 am)
Quote:As you yourself know the sheer overhead of an MMO is huge, I am hoping to stream line that, without making it generic by the use of tools and pre-developed scripting, by the efforts of the community, AND at the same time help the community of Indie's grow stronger.
What do you mean by streamline and not make it generic? A D20 clone style ruleset is a very different animal than a White Wolf style ruleset. The decision to have levels and classes is usually not even considered, but a good designer considers why they want classes before asking what classes they want. Even seemingly minor technical matters such as inventory are not straightforward. Do you go with endocontainers or exocontainers for inventory storage? Or are you mixing it?
#28
I can recommend this series of books, it comes in about a dozen books focusing on topics including Level Design, Online Game development, and even Audio. Every book includes a copy of Torque and the related trail software to evaluate and see what the big boys use. Very Very well (with lots of pictures!)
www.amazon.com/Game-Development-Essentials-Jeannie-Novak/dp/1418042080/ref=sr_1_...
There are hundreds of articles on Game Design Documents, This is just one of them. IMO Serious game developers and studios create these when making a a video game. These dont get set in stone, Some of the best items are written on knapkins to start with. But you dont make a professional impact by going into a office to hire folks and slap a pile of knapkins on the table and say, Id like to make a MMO. They are going to look at you a bit.. oddly.
www.gamasutra.com/features/19970912/design_doc.htm
Biggest pitfalls that scaled back my own MMO development, Resources. When you go and buy a typical RPG or MMO, the studio has hundreds of artists and programmers, me not so much. So I wrote a design document with a scope that was for a MMO, but after a general lack of interest for much of the same above, I rewrote the design document to create a singleplayer RPG with that material. Now i am a storyteller at heart, so it wasnt too hard for me, some folks might find it insulting to have to chop off certain aspects and items to make it a reasonable task. Also without the skills, as i regularly state, I am not a programmer or a Artist of great renouwned. But what i did do was pick up a tool set I felt comfortable with. For me it was Constructor, and dove into creating the world of Fantasci. So that when folks saw my game, they said oh, you have a Fantasy area, wow cool floating city of Atlantis or the Spaceport for the Science Fiction Area. so when they came on board they wouldnt be just reading whats on paper but seeing the world.
Now in my case, I made the decision early to pay most of my team with what little budget we could afford. WE have since received a large number of contributions, as well as picked up several key positions, including a sound engineer (who we made a deal to pay him in computer and studio componets; so we bought him a computer, a new keyboard, a microphone for voice over work, and some software licences) The key with resources is looking at your design document and say, what do we need and what do we want.
Now to answer your question about creating a MMOkit, which is very ambitious, I have proposed a RPG kit, much like the mydreamrpg KIt that was nixed. It was torque friendly with a simple sqlite persistance DB. It didnt require much more then a familiarity with the engine (after all I was able to use it) And then folks that want to create a MMO can make that next step, since most server setups are custom, or they dont want to use Python anyway. Since folks will tell you if you want to use anything but python with the MoMkit it pretty much creates a mountain of work. Creating a persistant RPG frame work give the little guys that dont know what it takes to create a MMO (and i have doubts that many folks that are just getting into game development really know what it takes to create/maintain/update a persistant MMO server) Start small and work up. Granted there are a few individuals that have the skills and teams to create a MMO. Its something that needs to taken with a grain of salt.
Feel free to contact me privately if you want to chat more. Keep in mind that my experience isnt the same as others, but i dont have any hesitation to pass on my experiences to others that are coming in to the industry.
11/17/2008 (7:30 am)
Well Chad, I would recommend reading anything and everything. I spent at least 3 months reading nearly ever post and forum i could find after buying my licence. There is a book series by Novak, thats written in good clean english with a demo and lots of sample materials.I can recommend this series of books, it comes in about a dozen books focusing on topics including Level Design, Online Game development, and even Audio. Every book includes a copy of Torque and the related trail software to evaluate and see what the big boys use. Very Very well (with lots of pictures!)
www.amazon.com/Game-Development-Essentials-Jeannie-Novak/dp/1418042080/ref=sr_1_...
There are hundreds of articles on Game Design Documents, This is just one of them. IMO Serious game developers and studios create these when making a a video game. These dont get set in stone, Some of the best items are written on knapkins to start with. But you dont make a professional impact by going into a office to hire folks and slap a pile of knapkins on the table and say, Id like to make a MMO. They are going to look at you a bit.. oddly.
www.gamasutra.com/features/19970912/design_doc.htm
Biggest pitfalls that scaled back my own MMO development, Resources. When you go and buy a typical RPG or MMO, the studio has hundreds of artists and programmers, me not so much. So I wrote a design document with a scope that was for a MMO, but after a general lack of interest for much of the same above, I rewrote the design document to create a singleplayer RPG with that material. Now i am a storyteller at heart, so it wasnt too hard for me, some folks might find it insulting to have to chop off certain aspects and items to make it a reasonable task. Also without the skills, as i regularly state, I am not a programmer or a Artist of great renouwned. But what i did do was pick up a tool set I felt comfortable with. For me it was Constructor, and dove into creating the world of Fantasci. So that when folks saw my game, they said oh, you have a Fantasy area, wow cool floating city of Atlantis or the Spaceport for the Science Fiction Area. so when they came on board they wouldnt be just reading whats on paper but seeing the world.
Now in my case, I made the decision early to pay most of my team with what little budget we could afford. WE have since received a large number of contributions, as well as picked up several key positions, including a sound engineer (who we made a deal to pay him in computer and studio componets; so we bought him a computer, a new keyboard, a microphone for voice over work, and some software licences) The key with resources is looking at your design document and say, what do we need and what do we want.
Now to answer your question about creating a MMOkit, which is very ambitious, I have proposed a RPG kit, much like the mydreamrpg KIt that was nixed. It was torque friendly with a simple sqlite persistance DB. It didnt require much more then a familiarity with the engine (after all I was able to use it) And then folks that want to create a MMO can make that next step, since most server setups are custom, or they dont want to use Python anyway. Since folks will tell you if you want to use anything but python with the MoMkit it pretty much creates a mountain of work. Creating a persistant RPG frame work give the little guys that dont know what it takes to create a MMO (and i have doubts that many folks that are just getting into game development really know what it takes to create/maintain/update a persistant MMO server) Start small and work up. Granted there are a few individuals that have the skills and teams to create a MMO. Its something that needs to taken with a grain of salt.
Feel free to contact me privately if you want to chat more. Keep in mind that my experience isnt the same as others, but i dont have any hesitation to pass on my experiences to others that are coming in to the industry.
#29
I allways loose the red thread though, this is one I dont think Ill ever complete, but enjoy what I could brew up!
11/17/2008 (10:58 am)
Seeing Michaels words made me go for yet another effort at writing 'my experience' into some sort of useful doc even though I should keep focus on my examn project ;)I allways loose the red thread though, this is one I dont think Ill ever complete, but enjoy what I could brew up!
#30
I'm thinkin something smaller but will be big in many other ways...as in story!!!Though I am making it a MMORPG,as for me I have experience as a young developer.My game is sort of an anime style with 3D visuals.I'm not trying to make high performance graphics because that will add a whole lot more time...though I can if I wanted to.My next game will be for the XBOX 360 and PS3,though I doubt I'll make it a real game...it's for my lil bro who loves video games.I'm helping my lil bro make his dream game a reality(nice big brother).Other than that,I'm just making games for fun///though I will make it as a career decision in life.The MMORPG I'm making takes me about a few months of designs which didn't take me to much work.
I'm not on garagegames all the time because I'm busy in making video games...when somebody says I can't do something I get more determine to accomplish that goal and prove them wrong...which is now. ^^
See yuh next time!!!
12/06/2008 (5:52 am)
When I said MMORPG...i didn't mean in a real large scale like WoW, that will take a large amount of time.I'm thinkin something smaller but will be big in many other ways...as in story!!!Though I am making it a MMORPG,as for me I have experience as a young developer.My game is sort of an anime style with 3D visuals.I'm not trying to make high performance graphics because that will add a whole lot more time...though I can if I wanted to.My next game will be for the XBOX 360 and PS3,though I doubt I'll make it a real game...it's for my lil bro who loves video games.I'm helping my lil bro make his dream game a reality(nice big brother).Other than that,I'm just making games for fun///though I will make it as a career decision in life.The MMORPG I'm making takes me about a few months of designs which didn't take me to much work.
I'm not on garagegames all the time because I'm busy in making video games...when somebody says I can't do something I get more determine to accomplish that goal and prove them wrong...which is now. ^^
See yuh next time!!!
#31
09/30/2009 (1:39 pm)
Wow...it'z been sometime since I last been here...I 've actual gathered a small group of people and were working on the game still...so far the experience is fun but I need to make a website before I can get this up and running. Until then, I'm a lvl 36 kickin ass ^W^...
Associate Josh Engebretson