Looking for Vista assistance
by David Dougher · in General Discussion · 11/11/2008 (3:22 pm) · 13 replies
To all,
Over the past few months I have been running into an increasing series of issues with the Vista Operating system, both in our upcoming MMO and with the Torque Game Builder class I am teaching. I have seen issues ranging from a complete inability of the software to run, to horrific display issues, bizzare errors, and general annoyance.
I am not pointing any fingers here, except perhaps at myself for not know a lot more about Vista. I am not looking for a Vista bashing party, or a litany about the flaws in Torque documentation. I want solid information.
So, since I have a birthday coming up and my wife is looking for a great gift, I would like to ask the community for a high-quality, comprehensive book on Vista. I'd like something that deals with its problems, its features compared to XP, and provides good coverage of the OS as a fundamental level. I don't need a chapter on how the mouse works, and I don't want to read a doctoral dissertation.
There may even be some places on the this site or the TDN site that have really good info on Vista, for all the Torque Engines. (I have done some reasonable searches, but might not have known certain search terms to look under.)
So here is your chance to teach an old dog some new tricks...
Over the past few months I have been running into an increasing series of issues with the Vista Operating system, both in our upcoming MMO and with the Torque Game Builder class I am teaching. I have seen issues ranging from a complete inability of the software to run, to horrific display issues, bizzare errors, and general annoyance.
I am not pointing any fingers here, except perhaps at myself for not know a lot more about Vista. I am not looking for a Vista bashing party, or a litany about the flaws in Torque documentation. I want solid information.
So, since I have a birthday coming up and my wife is looking for a great gift, I would like to ask the community for a high-quality, comprehensive book on Vista. I'd like something that deals with its problems, its features compared to XP, and provides good coverage of the OS as a fundamental level. I don't need a chapter on how the mouse works, and I don't want to read a doctoral dissertation.
There may even be some places on the this site or the TDN site that have really good info on Vista, for all the Torque Engines. (I have done some reasonable searches, but might not have known certain search terms to look under.)
So here is your chance to teach an old dog some new tricks...
About the author
Owner - Pariah Games, Adjunct Professor - Bristol Community College, Mentor - Game Design - Met School Newport, Mentor - Game Design - Met School Providence
#2
To add to Kenneth's good list of possible problem sources, 64-bit Vista is reportedly a tad more stable. I haven't had any huge problems with it yet, apart from the amount of space it eats. Go 64-bit and be a modern user :)
I have also used vLite to trim it down a bit. There are savings to be had if you don't need everything. If a service does not exist, it can't cause problems. Use with caution (and expert advice).
11/11/2008 (5:27 pm)
Vista Annoyances is out.To add to Kenneth's good list of possible problem sources, 64-bit Vista is reportedly a tad more stable. I haven't had any huge problems with it yet, apart from the amount of space it eats. Go 64-bit and be a modern user :)
I have also used vLite to trim it down a bit. There are savings to be had if you don't need everything. If a service does not exist, it can't cause problems. Use with caution (and expert advice).
#3
11/11/2008 (5:37 pm)
I actually started using 64 Bit Vista on my main machine here just to really get used to seeing how a huge spectrum of our products run on it and honestly, I can't say that I've run into any problems with it that I haven't seen on any of my 32 Bit machines. Mostly it behaves quite well :) ...wasn't exactly the case a few service packs back but it seems like that's just the way history repeats itself.
#4
11/12/2008 (6:29 am)
Yeah, there's a reason I stare at an OS X screen most of the time. Vista is a nice game launcher, though! 
#5
Using Vista32 I haven't noticed any related problems with TGE/A. I don't use Aero as a desktop theme (to be honest I just don't like it - it reeks of gimmick), and using Vista Basic and disabling the sidebar (gimmick) gives you more free memory.
11/12/2008 (7:58 am)
A "Windows Vista Annoyances Book" - that is so funny! Surely multi-volumed?Using Vista32 I haven't noticed any related problems with TGE/A. I don't use Aero as a desktop theme (to be honest I just don't like it - it reeks of gimmick), and using Vista Basic and disabling the sidebar (gimmick) gives you more free memory.
#6
The day I removed Vista from my workstation was a day of celebration. Vista gave me nothing but headaches... Good riddance.
11/13/2008 (9:59 am)
Here's a sure-fire way to solve any Vista issue you may have... get rid of it (although I even had issues removing Vista from my machine)...The day I removed Vista from my workstation was a day of celebration. Vista gave me nothing but headaches... Good riddance.
#7
Vista is a memory hog, you should be aware of that. The sidebar thing is useless - unless you like toys (gimmick). Disable it and it helps; however, disabling Aero does bad things for me. Also keep in mind that Vista lacks almost all of the backwards compatibility that XP retained.
A nice video card and 64 bit Vista just so I can have 4 GB of ram means that all of my 3d apps (games) perform like never before. I've actually come to like one or two things about it.
11/13/2008 (11:23 am)
I think the biggest problem with Vista is using it with inferior hardware. I would in no way want to upgrade an existing system to Vista , but I've had no problems with my new one - other than interface annoyances. The biggest problem I ran into is how Microsoft dumbs down system interaction and control for each iteration of Windows. You'll want to disable UAC first thing and edit the registry so that you have true admin privileges.Vista is a memory hog, you should be aware of that. The sidebar thing is useless - unless you like toys (gimmick). Disable it and it helps; however, disabling Aero does bad things for me. Also keep in mind that Vista lacks almost all of the backwards compatibility that XP retained.
A nice video card and 64 bit Vista just so I can have 4 GB of ram means that all of my 3d apps (games) perform like never before. I've actually come to like one or two things about it.
#8
@Ronny - Thanks for the title I'll check it out.
@Kenneth - At least one of my problems is older systems whose drivers are no longer being supported. Case in point, my Dell laptop bought when it was cloase to top of the line and which has an ATI Mobility x1400 - only supplied to Dell - who hasn't done a driver update in several years. But the suggestions are definitely appreciated and will be tried.
11/13/2008 (11:27 am)
@Stef, Removing Vista is not an option. It is needed to verify the game works on a variety of operating systems. It certainly would not be any kind of solution to recommend to a customer. @Ronny - Thanks for the title I'll check it out.
@Kenneth - At least one of my problems is older systems whose drivers are no longer being supported. Case in point, my Dell laptop bought when it was cloase to top of the line and which has an ATI Mobility x1400 - only supplied to Dell - who hasn't done a driver update in several years. But the suggestions are definitely appreciated and will be tried.
#9
I've done so in the past and have had pretty good results at updating my laptop drivers.
11/13/2008 (11:33 am)
It sucks about older hardware and the problems related to running Vista on it. It's not something I would probably recommend to a customer, but if you want to do some tests for yourself to determine if a video driver is the cause of a certain issue, you can download laptop drivers with modified .inf files to allow you to install them on proprietary laptop video chips from www.laptopvideo2go.comI've done so in the past and have had pretty good results at updating my laptop drivers.
#10
11/13/2008 (11:47 am)
@David - I also have a bit older laptop with an x1400. I have seen problems in Vista with this card, but they have all been solved by setting the "disable desktop composition" flag on the shortcut. 
#11
11/13/2008 (1:28 pm)
This may sound stupid, but have you tried to ask Microsoft about your Vista problems?
#12
My opinion is that it's both a blessing and a curse and I refuse to let go of XP until all the wrinkles are Ironed out of Vista.
As stated above, most problems are resolved with updated drivers. Hopefully you'll have a mainstream Video card so the driver is likely to be the cutting edge.
The more I read about Vista though.. the more Mac with OS X, and Linux OS seem more appealing me. I already have been doing serious shopping for a Mac laptop.
11/13/2008 (2:14 pm)
I have watched Widows OS from the days when it was packaged with every new IBM. My opinion is that it's both a blessing and a curse and I refuse to let go of XP until all the wrinkles are Ironed out of Vista.
As stated above, most problems are resolved with updated drivers. Hopefully you'll have a mainstream Video card so the driver is likely to be the cutting edge.
The more I read about Vista though.. the more Mac with OS X, and Linux OS seem more appealing me. I already have been doing serious shopping for a Mac laptop.
#13
It works for gaming. I have yet to try and stomach development on it.
11/13/2008 (5:06 pm)
VLite makes Vista tolerable - it's practically a necessity in my opinion, just for the fact you can create an installation disc with UAC disabled from the beginning. I got my Ultimate disc below 1GB, and down by over 50% installed size, without annoying prefetch chugging away on the harddrive all the time.It works for gaming. I have yet to try and stomach development on it.
Torque 3D Owner Kenneth Holst
Default Studio Name