Support for XNA 3.0

#41 @Mister Nobody - Could you repost that list in the Official Documentation Feedback Thread? Thanks!

#42 Wow, this is a long thread! I've been away from the forums for the last several weeks since all attention has been Torque X 3.0. I can assure everyone that the holidays has not slowed down development a bit, and that includes working on Thanksgiving (morning while Turkey was still cooking). The biggest challenge in putting together TX3 has been the support for XP and Vista (and its lovely UAC security) and VS2008/C# Express 2008, while maintaining full support Xbox 360 and Community LIVE services. There's been a lot of bug fixes, some new features, and TXB3D has become more stable and easier to use. The release is really close and the entire team is working extra hard to release this very soon.

As far as your games go... as long as your game runs well under Torque X 2.0, you should have an easy migration to TX3. If your game is running on Torque X 1.0, then you should start upgrading now to TX2 in preparation for TX3. I'll also make it back to the forums more frequently now that we're winding down.

John K.

#43 Thanks for the update :-) Since this is the TXB forum I dare to ask if TXB (the 2D Builder) has been updated too?

#44 There is not an update to the 2D Builder beyond its extended support for Torque X 3.0 level files and the VS2008 project files.

John K.

#45 Hello again, John. Thanks for the added info. Do you mean"soon" as in 2008? :] Just curious, I understand how these things go sometimes.

Quick question about your book; Are there any major differences between 2.0 and 3.0 that affect the projects you gave as examples? I'm probably going to buy it anyway (as I likely should have a long time ago).

#46 Hi, James. Unfortunately, I can't commit to any timetables. But I can say that we are in the testing phase so it should be really really soon. As for the book - this is where it gets funny. The book is actually based on Torque X 3.0, since I leveraged my 'insider' knowledge. In fact, the number of problems with the book's code that people are reporting now is directly due to the fact that many classes that are private in Torque X 2.0 are now public and accessible in Torque X 3.0. So, the book is much more accurate once Torque X 3.0 is released.

John K.

#47 Hi John,

great news it's coming soon indeed. I fully understand that you can't commit to any timetables. However, can you maybe say something about the rumor that it will be possible to use XSI ModTool together with TX commercially? Woudl be really good to know, because then I could really dig into modtool and create my levels and characters while I am waiting for the TX update.

Keep up the good work ;-)!

Andi

#48 Hi Andy, I think learning ModTool is a pretty good idea.

John K.

#49 Hi John,

thanks so much for this statement ;-).

Andi

#50 Reading this thread brings me back memories when GG was releasing TX2.0. Long delays without saying clear what we were waiting for. For example, one of the key feature I was eagerly waiting was network features at that time. I tried to get some answers if it was GG network layer independent of Live but I had wait until TX2.0 is released to find that it was none other than simply Live network to my disappointment.
I licensed TX long time ago and I have a feeling that development on TX is almost on a halt or hardly moving at all. At one point, GG promised us to give us timely update (transparent development??) but nothing seems changed. We still don't know what we are waiting for other than what's already promised by XNA3.0.
Sincerely, I would like to ask if GG threat TX seriously or TX community for that matter.

#51 @Chris - Development is not at a halt. As mentioned above and in other threads, we are in the final phase now which includes eliminating bugs, writing docs, and creating installers. We do want to roll out transparent development, but there are other critical things we should take care of before hand.

For instance, we are trying this out in the iTGB forums and it's been a very hard and bitter road. We posted an exact date, and have been fairly open about what features will be going into the next update (as well as fuzzy release dates). However, you can look to the past and see the kind of treatment GG has received when we have been more transparent.

Things do not happen over night, and things have changed enough over the past year (like hiring someone on full time to write docs, hmmm) to show GG is headed in the direction you want.

The parties involved with TorqueX have worked very, very hard on this next release. I honestly would have pulled all my hair out by now. Kudos to them and I look forward to this release going out very soon.

#52 Hey Chris. I answered your questions on the XNA 2.0 network support as soon as you asked them, and I definitely remember your disappointment at not having a network system that would break core compatibility between XBox and Windows. But, as deployment to both platforms is a strong feature and there are a lot of Windows-only XNA projects that have used different network assemblies to strong effect, we made the decision to keep compatibility on the network side intact.

We definitely take TX seriously and love working with XNA developers. Finally there is a platform for indies and hobbyists to get their games to play on a console without resorting to arcane builds of duct-taped-together GPL tools and hardware and API guestimation in any number of homebrew communities. We take indies seriously and love that there is a pathway to console dev without a huge barrier of entry. That it allows cross development with Windows is a huge boon as well. Two successful platforms, one of which has a million development libraries and engines out in the wild, free and commercial, and one that until recently had a huge barrier of entry that cost tens of thousands just to get a foot in the door. And now developers can target both for an extremely low price.

So, yes, we take it seriously as you may have noted from Michael's post.

#53 Thanks Michael, I don't doubt that GG working very hard to get it out the door.
I understand SW development takes time and I'm not blaming GG at all, however, I would like to ask where GG want to take TX. Lack of direction makes me to say if GG is taking Tx seriously. Such as roadmap and list of tasks would be very nice. For example, Ogre is development by community, yet it's very organized and it's pretty clear where the development is at and where it is headed. GG is controlled by professional employees and it should be much easier to control. Is it too much to ask to have something like that? My two cents.

#54 Software is complicated. Everything takes time. Everyone is working hard.

I think we can all agree on these simple statements.

What I would like to see from GarageGames is some target date for supporting XNA 3.0 in some form, even if only a beta. Hearing "really soon" in forums is great, but that's not information companies can rely upon. It's also coming from an individual who may not have all the details or the big picture.

Like more robust software companies, I would like to see GarageGames publish a target release date for XNA 3.0 support and then drive their teams to that date. Along with the date should be a listing of roughly we can expect to get. Will we have a true 3D builder? Will we have support for GG effects packs? Will all versions of VS2008 be supported?

If you've got a great product in the pipeline, you should be publicizing roughly what it is, what it does and roughly when we can expect it to arrive.

#55 I see why GarageGames doesn't give us dates anymore. They use to do it all the time, and when they didn't make that day, people would bitch and moan on the forums, talk about how GarageGames is screwing the users over, I was waiting on that date for my project and now you've thrown my whole project off schedule etc etc (the Constructor release comes to mind).

#56 Thats' true, Chip.
I really understand GG. On the other side I also understand everyone else. Especially in this situation.
Everyone would love to release something to the XBox Live Community Service. But that's only possible with XNA 3.0. And while others are getting their games out they have to wait for the (official) support.

I think what most people mean: The first time someone said "Really soon now"... that was a month ago. That's not really something you can count on. For GG it may be 2 months while it's closer two 2 weeks for myself.

I don't really care at the moment because my project is far away from being released. It's not a problem for myself. I just think GG should understand (and I think they do) that in this special case (supporting XNA 3.0) developers are waiting for a critical feature and not something that makes your game look better.

#57 @Chip - Thanks for the support.

@Marco - Indeed we do understand. I could go into a long drawn out speech, but there isn't much point right now. It's 11pm here and I need to stop writing TorqueX docs...get to bed...and get back up in the morning to start again.

#58 Not asking for a date, but can someone from GG confirm if TX 3.0 is coming before or after Xmas?

#59 @Andy S. - After Christmas. While larger companies stopped being productive by early December, even GarageGames (the small and independent company that it is), will have effectively no productivity over the next couple of weeks. Even if they were productive, there's little sense in deploying a brand new and complicated product over the holidays as nobody would want to be busy dealing with all the support emails/requests that happen immediately after a launch. Either way you want to look at it, this product will not launch in '08.

And to be honest, without GarageGames formally releasing more information about this product (e.g. we will first launch this product as a Beta, known limitations, and launch date), you won't really know when it's coming. If this tread has proven anything, it's that the dates you read in these posts are practically without meaning. Either the information is just wrong, e.g. "on track for November" or far too subjective, e.g. "very soon now."

GarageGames should make a formal statement on (1) if the first release of this product will be Beta or not, (2) roughly when they can commit to releasing it and (3) what features we can expect. And by "formal statement," I don't mean a few scattered postings in the forums.

#60 Mister Nobody. I have made a statement in another thread just yesterday, detailing how we are doing on the software and where we currently stand as far as release candidate status. We have gone several routes before regarding granting development status information, giving out lots of information, and giving out no information at all.

I feel like it is better to be honest with people and tell them where the software stands currently, even if it fell back from an earlier announced time frame, than saying nothing. Dates and times can often be moving targets and are not static. We do the best here that we can to try to provide accurate information to the people interested in our products, as to when we will be releasing - but it is just a best guess at any current time. If you feel like it is useless information, you are welcome to ignore it. Others do like it, and it is for them that I try to keep them in the loop as best I can.

*edited for snarkiness