Why isn't any big company using torque?

#1 Is NASA a big company?

EDIT:
Okay, NASA is in the serious games sector.

Here is a nice list of some Torque-powered games.

#2 Do your research before putting out statements like this, IMO. :) Not that it matters a lot, but you look funny this way.

#3 Probably our "biggest hit" has been with Hothead using Torque to create the Penny Arcade Adventures game. But really, we've had a lot of large studios use our tech to prototype games, small studios make successful games (such as in the casual space), and just individuals using Torque for a variety of reasons.

With our current library of Torque-made games, I'm satisfied that we're a top-tier solution for game creation, and we're getting more people on board all the time. But it is, of course, up to you to decide whether our reputation (as David pointed out) is good enough for you to take us seriously.

*edited for spelling...whoops! ^_^*

#4 Wasn't NCSoft using Torque at one point? (Not to derail the thread, just thought I remember seeing that tidbit of news at one point)

#5 I think he means big and famous game companies such as:

Nintendo
Microsoft
Namco
Capcom
etc.

I can explain why:

On games that don't run on a console (Wii, Xbox, Playstation, etc.) space matters. Why? Because CDs don't have the 500 gigabytes that PCs and Macs have.

So here is what they do:

They hire a group of programmers to make a game engine specifically for that game, so that they can have what they need. Torque is a public game engine, unlike the Sonic engine used to make some of the old sonic games (and an upgraded one for the new DS games). Tell me if you know how to get those.

Anyway, like I was saying, Torque is a public game engine, so it needs to have plenty of capabilities to suit as many games as possible, but because of this, it has many features that many games don't need. Take a game like Spyro or Crash bandicoot for example, why should they buy a game engine that has features they don't need (vehicles for example) and take up memory and space, when they could build their own and have the perfect amount of features that they need for that game.

Another good reason is the scripting language. It would take too long for a company to train about 200 people to learn an entire scripting language. The programmers will know everything about the scripting language if they build it themselves, which is MANY less people to train. It is also good for these handful of programmers to know how the entire engine works, because then they can fix anything that isn't working.

#6 Uhhhhh...

What?

No...

#7 If I remember correctly, there was a game created with Torque for the Playstation3 that Capcom published. I don't believe Capcom themselves created it, but they did publish it, and it was for the PS3. And, hell, NASA alone using the engine(doesn't matter for what reason) should speak for itself. Torque rules.

#8 LOL. Tyler, you set Pat off...cover your ears =)

By the way, Microsoft and Capcom (among many others like EA, IBM, NCSoft, Konami, Ubisoft, etc.) have all used Torque for their projects. We're pretty ubiquitous at this point. We're not trying to have the next "Crysis" made with Torque because we don't have a $20M annual R&D budget for engines. Not to mention it's a crappy, crowded space to be in. Torque's plenty capable and continues to be proven a viable choice for commercial success.

#9 @Tyler

On games that don't run on a console (Wii, Xbox, Playstation, etc.) space matters. Why? Because CDs don't have the 500 gigabytes that PCs and Macs have.

So here is what they do:

They hire a group of programmers to make a game engine specifically for that game, so that they can have what they need. Torque is a public game engine, unlike the Sonic engine used to make some of the old sonic games (and an upgraded one for the new DS games). Tell me if you know how to get those.

Anyway, like I was saying, Torque is a public game engine, so it needs to have plenty of capabilities to suit as many games as possible, but because of this, it has many features that many games don't need. Take a game like Spyro or Crash bandicoot for example, why should they buy a game engine that has features they don't need (vehicles for example) and take up memory and space, when they could build their own and have the perfect amount of features that they need for that game.

The compiled TGE executable is around 3MB. Are you saying that one of the reasons developers choose another engine is that they can't fit a 3MB exe on a 6GB DVD?

Having additional classes defined in your source also doesn't take extra memory (well, a trivial amount). The extras in Torque can be ignored without any penalty.

Another good reason is the scripting language. It would take too long for a company to train about 200 people to learn an entire scripting language. The programmers will know everything about the scripting language if they build it themselves, which is MANY less people to train. It is also good for these handful of programmers to know how the entire engine works, because then they can fix anything that isn't working.

If your programmers need training on how to write Torquescript, you need to find new programmers. Any engine you use is going to have a learning curve to it, and Torquescript is one of the easiest languages out there.

The idea that it would be faster to write your own language over "training" someone in Torquescript is completely off base.

#10 Aren't we overlooking the obvious?

Tribes was a major game by a major company. Same engine.

Tony

#11 Nasa is propably using torque to make prototypes as fast as possible. And I havn'r seen any AAA title coming from them :-)

But I didn't know that a ps3 game have been released that is using the engine. that was new to me.
I have by the way never heard of the game Penny Arcade Adventures game, and that is the biggest hit you are having. Anyway, thanks for all replays, and I hope you continue to discuss in this thread, I think the guy above me had some good points by the way

#12 Tilted Mill are also using Torque for Hinterland:

http://www.tiltedmill.com/hinterland/

At least *I* consider them big..big among the small 'uns :)

#13 Well NASA having bought/using the engine is not the same as a big label saying "This is a good engine"

At times it feels like it must be easier to send a rocket to the moon than to make something useful in Torque.

-Yet you are getting better at documentation, Michael Perry is doing a great job at that!

;-)

#14

Quote:I have by the way never heard of the game Penny Arcade Adventures game, and that is the biggest hit you are having.

Actually, that sounds rather hostile, and is unfair because you didnt asked about games but clearly "Big Companies", not games. Not only that, but you also answered with sarcasm about NASA for the same reason.

You should take care a bit on how you ask, before talking like that.

Anyway, if you take some seconds and read around in this site, you will find phrases like "Vivendi's Starsiege, Tribes, and Tribes 2 products; NCSoft's Auto Assault".


...Is NCSoft big enough for you?

#15 Also I just have to add if you are "in the game industry" and don't know who Penny Arcade is... Seriously, saying Penny Arcade isn't a big deal in the game industry is like saying The New York Times isn't a big deal in the newspaper industry.

Not knowing who they are just proves -you- don't know the industry.

#16 Valador, Inc. in cooperation with NASA ESMD created the Distributed Observer Network, using torque engine technology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-mFx6blZK8

http://don.valador.com

As the primary viewing and distribution environment for NASA’s Constellation Program, the DON employs gaming technology to bring data from potentially hundreds of mission simulations to a desktop virtual environment. It's a multi-user system running on OS X, Windows, and Linux.

Keep in mind, Constellation is the program that is taking man back to the Moon and then Mars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Constellation

#17 I would take the simple viewpoint that if you're a big company, you're going to have the money to spend on, for example, the Crysis engine or Unreal. Torque has a target audience, and a niche for itself - GarageGames doesn't want to have to compete with these big-name engines in areas such as graphics. But these capabilities might be important to a company planning to release an AAA smash hit game.

#18 **Why isn't any big company using torque?**
---------------------------------------------

Ok now that you've gotten the nice sugar coated answers from Torque employees and some ignorant users here I'll give you the real reason why. Because Torque Engine is not a professional level piece of software or Engine by any means and is actually quite buggy and the programmers they hire to work on it are not very knowledgeable.

It's used by amateurs and hobbyists who are not experienced enough to understand exactly why it isn't a professional grade development solution.

I personally know a professional programmer who has worked for many of those companies you named here and has used/evaluated torque in the past and has bluntly stated that it's not worth anything other than for learning for amateurs. Their support could not even answer many of his questions when he asked making them seem like amateurs themselves to him.

There is absolutely no reason for a big successful company to use Torque over something like Unreal 3 for example unless as already stated -- they are simply prototyping or not making anything very serious.

#19 I want to share my apocryphal urban legend of computer game development.

I have a girl that I would hit on in the laundry room who used to live in my building. He ex's best friend was a professional developer for a AAA game company. He once saw the source code for Torque, Unity, DarkBasic, and Game Maker while he was turning state's evidence in a piracy scandal for the breach at Valve that allowed the Source source to be spread on the internet. They took in all of the usual suspects that might use the Source source in their engines and had him on retainer because he had once downloaded Game Maker and used to type in programs from Compute! in BASIC. He looked at the source and realized that Valve had stolen the source code from every one of these engines! They all had a piece of the Source. Valve had only been making AAA money because no one had seen the source or were under NDA if they had. He wrote down his findings and the case was settled out of court (like all of the big-time heavies). So no one knows the truth except for a select few who knew laundry girls who used to play Halo tournaments in the coffee shop down the street. I heard he works at Tastee Bite now. His ex has a restraining order on me that's about to expire (YES!YES!YES!), but at least I know the truth about AAA source code from a professional developer.

#20 @Daniel - It's fine if you want to express your opinion. If that comes with you creating an account just to slam our engine and call our users and employees ignorant, then please find something else to do in your spare time.