Which Torque Engine
by Paul Drust · in Torque Game Engine · 05/23/2008 (2:30 pm) · 6 replies
Hello,
I'm looking at (possibly) purchasing one of the Torque engines, but I'm a little confused about which would be best for me. I am strictly a hobbyist with 25 yrs programming, but mostly Visual Basic business apps although I am familiar with C/C# (though not C++).
I have game ideas I would like to implement, some in 2D and some in 3D.
For a 2D SHMUP, it seems TGB is best (or TXB), but then to do a 3D game I would need to also get TGE or TGEA or TorqueX.
I have questions about a few things:
A) There is the TorqueX 3D builder that is in the works at GG, but how will this compare with the current WorldBuilder/MissionEditer, etc?
B) Why is there a TorqueX engine at ALL when TGEA can run on XBox? Is it just for C# developers?
C) And now why is there Torque 360?
D) How far behind the other engines is TorqueX? Or in what ways is it further ahead?
E) How do the capabilities of the TorqueX engine compare with TGE?
F) Which engine is driving the development of the others? I assume TGEA, but....
G) Is there much need to get the PRO version to be able to do modifications to the engine with TGB?
I'm tending toward TGB and TGE, but anyone's thoughts on these questions, or even other engines I should consider for a hobbyist are welcome.
-- Paul
I'm looking at (possibly) purchasing one of the Torque engines, but I'm a little confused about which would be best for me. I am strictly a hobbyist with 25 yrs programming, but mostly Visual Basic business apps although I am familiar with C/C# (though not C++).
I have game ideas I would like to implement, some in 2D and some in 3D.
For a 2D SHMUP, it seems TGB is best (or TXB), but then to do a 3D game I would need to also get TGE or TGEA or TorqueX.
I have questions about a few things:
A) There is the TorqueX 3D builder that is in the works at GG, but how will this compare with the current WorldBuilder/MissionEditer, etc?
B) Why is there a TorqueX engine at ALL when TGEA can run on XBox? Is it just for C# developers?
C) And now why is there Torque 360?
D) How far behind the other engines is TorqueX? Or in what ways is it further ahead?
E) How do the capabilities of the TorqueX engine compare with TGE?
F) Which engine is driving the development of the others? I assume TGEA, but....
G) Is there much need to get the PRO version to be able to do modifications to the engine with TGB?
I'm tending toward TGB and TGE, but anyone's thoughts on these questions, or even other engines I should consider for a hobbyist are welcome.
-- Paul
About the author
#2
b) Because only official XBox developers can use TGEA 360 which is an expensive option that is not open to many developers. XNA, however is free, with a minimal charge for the Creator's Club subscription so that you can deploy to the 360. There is not yet a true devpath for XNA games to commercial XBox games, though the new CC site is operational with voting and such.
c) Torque 360 is a professional development solution for licensed XBox developers with a devkit and development slot setup with Microsoft. It is not a low-cost solution, though it is marginal compared to the certification costs that a team will have to pay.
d) It is a new engine built from the ground-up so it is difficult to place it in a "behind" or "in front" way. The key thing that comes to mind is the 3D editor. But when it comes to features, it really depends.
e) TorqueX requires a much more modern graphics card and is based on XNA, which means that it is Windows only. Even though there are projects to XNAitize Mono, they have a long way to go to make it cross platform in any real way. TGE, however, works on Macs out of the box. TGE, however, does not support shader tech and TX (and XNA) does not support software rendering since it makes heavy use of hardware rendering support.
f) A bit of an odd question, but I know where you're coming from. It is hard to answer, though. We have an internal engine that we triage pieces of like crazy while working with tech. We then decide what we can move out to other engines. TX is more based on what changes with XNA, I believe, than what changes with any other engine in our product line.
g) Right now, the ALT-TAB problem with Vista is a pro-only solution since it requires source code changes to implement the fixes. Hopefully that will be rolled into Torque here soon. It isn't necessary, though, depending on the type of game you want to make. But it can definitely make your life easier.
EDIT: Beat to the punch!
05/23/2008 (2:54 pm)
A) I would recommend reading John Kanalakis's blogs for more information on the 3D editor since he's developing it.b) Because only official XBox developers can use TGEA 360 which is an expensive option that is not open to many developers. XNA, however is free, with a minimal charge for the Creator's Club subscription so that you can deploy to the 360. There is not yet a true devpath for XNA games to commercial XBox games, though the new CC site is operational with voting and such.
c) Torque 360 is a professional development solution for licensed XBox developers with a devkit and development slot setup with Microsoft. It is not a low-cost solution, though it is marginal compared to the certification costs that a team will have to pay.
d) It is a new engine built from the ground-up so it is difficult to place it in a "behind" or "in front" way. The key thing that comes to mind is the 3D editor. But when it comes to features, it really depends.
e) TorqueX requires a much more modern graphics card and is based on XNA, which means that it is Windows only. Even though there are projects to XNAitize Mono, they have a long way to go to make it cross platform in any real way. TGE, however, works on Macs out of the box. TGE, however, does not support shader tech and TX (and XNA) does not support software rendering since it makes heavy use of hardware rendering support.
f) A bit of an odd question, but I know where you're coming from. It is hard to answer, though. We have an internal engine that we triage pieces of like crazy while working with tech. We then decide what we can move out to other engines. TX is more based on what changes with XNA, I believe, than what changes with any other engine in our product line.
g) Right now, the ALT-TAB problem with Vista is a pro-only solution since it requires source code changes to implement the fixes. Hopefully that will be rolled into Torque here soon. It isn't necessary, though, depending on the type of game you want to make. But it can definitely make your life easier.
EDIT: Beat to the punch!
#3
Torque2 and Juggernaut.
A lengthy answer to your question (and description of Torque2/Jugg) from Brett Seyler.
www.garagegames.com/blogs/83134/14506
A plan post about Torque2 from Stephen Zepp.
www.garagegames.com/blogs/34977/13731
05/23/2008 (2:57 pm)
"Which engine is driving the development of the others?"Torque2 and Juggernaut.
A lengthy answer to your question (and description of Torque2/Jugg) from Brett Seyler.
www.garagegames.com/blogs/83134/14506
A plan post about Torque2 from Stephen Zepp.
www.garagegames.com/blogs/34977/13731
#4
It's very interesting seeing where the engines have come from and where they're going.
I understand from the linked info that GG hasn't been charging for TBG updates for the past three years. this raises a concern that I may be jumping into TGB development a few months before a new version is released and have to pay for an upgrade.
-- Paul
05/23/2008 (5:01 pm)
Thanks for the responses. It's very interesting seeing where the engines have come from and where they're going.
I understand from the linked info that GG hasn't been charging for TBG updates for the past three years. this raises a concern that I may be jumping into TGB development a few months before a new version is released and have to pay for an upgrade.
-- Paul
#6
05/23/2008 (6:28 pm)
Well if you like to create games just for a hobby, then I wouldn't suggest TGEA. Unless you like to create very graphic games (like halo). TGE is almost like TGEA, except that you can make the games faster (although they don't look as good). I suggest waiting for TorqueX if you want to port your game to xbox. TGB is pretty much the easiest, and best 2d game engine out there, so if you just want to create quick fast and casual games, then that is your engine.
Torque Owner Ben Versaw
TGEA actually cannot run on the XBox 360. I believe most, if not all of your work, can be easily ported to Torque360 when you are ready for that step, however.
The difference between the two is that TorqueX allows you to build and test your game on the xbox without being an approved Microsoft developer. Eventually, you will still have to get approved but with TorqueX you can be more sure of the final product on the xbox if you do get approved.
"How far behind the other engines is TorqueX? Or in what ways is it further ahead?"
TorqueX is based on the XNA framework. It is completely different than the other engines so comparison is not really useful.
"How do the capabilities of the TorqueX engine compare with TGE?"
See above.
"Which engine is driving the development of the others? I assume TGEA, but...."
This is just a guess - because I'm not an employee so I don't know - but I would assume none of them. I believe Garage Games has their own internal engine they use for games and as improvements are made to it they are shuffled back to the engines.
Also many engine developments are made by the community rather than Garage Games itself.
The other questions I don't know the answer to.