Torque contributions

#1 Sounds a bit like a modified GPL ... not entirely a bad idea... the thing is... everything I want to use, has been shared... though, I am still unclear of the license this stuff falls under?

I recently (yesterday) had to fight an internal battle over this with my TGEPython... the reality is, I am better off with people testing, modifying, using this code than keeping it locked away... or hassling with a few people licensing it...

I also want to increase Torque's visibility... in this case, by bringing some people from other communities that maybe wouldn't have stopped by garagegames.com

If you must keep your stuff locked away, then do... contributing isn't mandatory... perhaps charge a license fee for it?

Is there a feature from a specific project you are lusting after?

We are stronger together than apart...

-J

#2 Yes I was thinking of something like the GPL, I just didn't want to use those words. I haven't done anything quite so large as integrating Python into TGE, and so I have less need for others to test what I've done. I have to test it myself because I need it now, and other people probably won't get around to testing it quickly.

As for me lusting after features, I don't feel that way. There are a few I've heard of that would be nice though. I want the all benefits of releasing my code to the community, but also encourage others to share and most importantly not share with those who aren't willing to do the same.

#3 I think if all shall share there codes and and script then the Torque Engine kickass in the end,
and going to be better then the unreal,quake and lihtech engines.
so dont be please dont be greedy !
Some of us are not super coders and cant share codes !
we maybe share some other things like graphics,and modeling,textures stuff tutorials or something !
So shall we think like you do then we can close the forums !!!!!!

Greetings

Billy

#4 Billy,

I have no desire to give away my hard work for free, I want something back for it. What I want is for anyone who uses what I share to share their own work in return. I certainly don't care to make everyone elses' lives easier if they won't contribute what they make in return. If you can't write any new features, then I don't care if you use my work or not.

I'm only thinking of general engine features, not game specific features. I can only imagine that others feel the same way.

#5 The way I see it is that you don't have to share anything you don't want to. Its perfectly fine if you want to keep the code to yourself, its everyones decision to make by themselves.

I've only just purchased my Torque license so just now I'm currently plugging my way through reading the engine scripts & code to find out how things work and I'll admit that the code & scripts that have been posted have been great because they give you practical ways of seeing how parts of the system work.

I also feel that because of the way that a few great contributors have posted so much code & help for everyone and helped push the engine that little bit further, most developers want to join in and contribute. Its just that not everyone has the confidence or ability to chip something in.

I certainly know that I'll try to get something chipped into the hat as soon as I've got something I feel pushes the engine and is something others might want, but thats my decision.

Guess the short answer is that if you don't want to share, don't feel like you have to because you don't.

#6 Ok i understand your worries now !
You want to share some code but when it is
a base engine code and garagegames makes the money
and you dont! ,if this is your worries i understand
you !!
So i think its a real problem here some coders dont
want to share codes because they dont get any money,
and some of us that are very bad coders maybe like
you good coders to give us a hint what to do because
we get stuck very often hehe !!!!!

so do a goodgame instead and i buy it and then you get
the money !!

sorry for my bad english !

greetings
billy

#7 There are several members of this community who are working and contributing upgrades to torque, with their only compensation being a big load of thanks from other members of the community, and that in turn makes them more willing to participate.

I understand the want to be compensated, and you have every right to want to be assured that others will recipricate. I can and will when the time comes.

Others feel that participating in this community, helping out when they can is contributing, so I guess it all depends on how you define contributions, compensation, and the like.

Hard work is hard work, no question, but if your contribution is that much more valuable to you, then find a way that makes you feel like your being compensated, and do it that way...

great looking stuff by the way, the hard work shows.

~myk

#8 I understand the sentiment.

As a programmer there are things you just don't want to share as it may give you a small edge over your "competition".

I know when I was working with T1 / T2 I basically gave up on doing MOD's as I could never create something that was unique that wouldn't appear in Renegades as a cut-n-paste before I could even get the feature balanced.

Personally.. It's your code do what you feel is in your best interest. Just don't brag incessantly about the nifty new feature you've added if you aren't going to share. ;)

#9 Where is what I do. I take the first version of my features and share them then I go over and make the features more valuable and a lot more advanced, but don't share those additional add-ons to the features. For example I shared my newsgui script with the community and turned around and made the news system support dynamic news content using a PHP script to feed the news gui client and implemented an up-to-update game system into the news gui. So now it's not even remotely close to the one shared. It just makes people droll over your work ;)

#10 Another thought I just had:

your contributions, ( i assume the render face-lift ) could help make Torque more visible in the game communities and help attract more artists to this one. This could benefit for everyone, as there seems to be a pretty good lack of 3d artists here.

But I agree with most of what is said here about your conflict of interest.

~myk

#11 I think one of the main arguements in favor of free and open sharing is that doing so encourages others to share their code. If a new person comes into the GG community and sees lots of people freely sharing their code, they are going to be much more likely to share whatever they may create. If instead they find a bunch of people that want payment for every small change, they would probably follow the same course.

Personally, I would have trouble morally justifing using other people's freely shared code without sharing my own code. The thing that sets apart your game shouldn't end up being some little improvement to the Torque rendering process, it should be gameplay, which can't be shared!

Josh

#12 I feel inclined to share simply because:

a) torque NEEDS it.
b) you get recognition.
c) it helps other people.
d) it encourages other people to do the same.

Now I don't have to support myself here so I guess that could influence my decision...

#13 Like Josh stated, you are not bound to make contributions or give back to the community. It is really up to you.

My take on it goes like this:

Game play should be the key to your product, so contributing back engine enhancements should not put you at any kind of competitive disadvantage.

For instance, GG will be contributing back some engine enhancements and bug fixes due to our work on Marbles. However, we will not be contributing our marble physics so there will not be a bunch of wanna-be marble-like games. At some point, the competitive advantage of the physics will diminish, then we will contribute that code as well
The industry is still in the stage where technological improvements may make sales, but we are rapidly approaching a time when graphics enhancements will be commoditized. Then we can move on to the next stage where great AI or great physics can differentiate your game.

Even those things will eventually become commoditized, so we'll move on to something else. Maybe fun factor???

If you are afraid of contributing because GG is making money off your efforts, please consider that you are building upon our efforts as well. For over three years of effort, none of us have taken a pay check. The money we get from TGE sales goes to paying expenses associated with acquiring the engine, building and running this site, IT and bandwidth costs, hardware expenses, etc.

Jeff Tunnell GG