Newbie question - Games and MMo's

#1 Whew, I still can't believe these posts still pop up these days. Not just here, but any game related community... Before I say anything, I'd suggest searching on Google for "I want to make an MMO" (or similar queries), and read the replies to any given post/article. That should summarize things nicely, as well as give you a head start.

Then, search here for "MMO". Heck, I'll point you at something straight away- "MMOKit". As far as browser based- TGEA isn't a browser based game engine. It's a stand alone game engine. Though I could be wrong as to whether or not there is a plugin or some other effort to get TGEA into a browser.

#2 Those posts usually amount to "don't bother cause yer gonna FAIL anyway". That may be true for someone with zero experience wants to make WoW. It is not true for someone else, like me, who built and ran NWN PWs and simply outgrew the platform. My goals are modest and PW/MMO/MUD/VirtualWorld != gigantic by definition.

Let me give you the link for the TMMOKit: http://www.mmoworkshop.com/trac/mom/phpbb

#3 The people who don't have experience are the ones who ask these questions. If you have to ask the above, you no doubt have little idea of what it requires to make a game and thus, are destined to fail.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't want to create the next WoW, I just think people should start small before they waste too much time.

JC, my suggestion, download the demo and play with it. Start at the first step.

#4 Thanks for all the feedback and comments which we appreciate. You're right that we are not experienced in this, hence the questions. We've Googled extensively, which is how we got to this forum. We are not trying to build WOW, just run a small virtual world and are looking for tools to do this.

Any chance of a direct answer to our questions in relation to the TGEA?

#5

Quote:A browser based 3D world requiring a small plug in - not a big download.

Not as far as I am aware

Quote:Be capable of importing content from most existing 3D packages - 3D Studio Max etc.

Yes

Quote:Can be run on our customers own servers, so we don;t have to host the whole thing

Yes (at least I think so...!)

Quote:Capable of providing very high quality content

That all depends on the artists ;)

Quote:No need for user generated content in world

I have no idea what that means sorry!

Quote:Avatar modification

A resource or two are about yes. Not sure if they work with the new version of TGEA though.

#6 Thanks for the answers..

"No need for user generated content in world" - by this we mean that where in Second Life, all the content in world is made by the users, using SL in world tools. We don't need this facility, we want all the content created in external packages.

#7

Quote:A browser based 3D world requiring a small plug in - not a big download.

You would have to code it and it is not a small project. If you have never made a browser plug-in then you will be in for some interesting frustration as you attempt to target the major browsers consistently on different operating systems, each requiring a different API and often some very specialized code. Not necessarily for the weak of heart when it comes to a project as large as the one you're proposing (real-time 3D engine in a browser plug-in).

Quote:Be capable of importing content from most existing 3D packages - 3D Studio Max etc.

Max, Maya, Lightwave, Blender, and Milkshape have exporters for Torque. XSI has limited support and Houdini support is coming.

Quote:Can be run on our customers own servers, so we don;t have to host the whole thing

Yes, but you will have to code in the specific mechanisms for load balancing.

Quote:Capable of providing very high quality content

It depends on your artists. There are a ton of game engines that have crappy examples but that could show off art well if they had artists working with the engine. In fact, Project Offset and Unreal 3 wouldn't be so "wowing" if they didn't have strong artists behind them. People would look at the engines and think "damn, those are ugly...they must suck."

Quote:No need for user generated content in world

Like Tom, I have no idea what this means.

Quote:Avatar modification

Again, as Tom said, there are some resources available for limited customization. I would also strongly suggest looking into TorqueSchool.com. Their character class was great. Real life kicked me in the butt in terms of getting to participate in the class to a full extent. But it was an excellent class.

#8 Hi David,
Thanks for your points.
What I'm understanding is that this is potentially a very big and complex project, but with the right finance and people on board, the TGEA might fit the bill. My next question would be, are there developers within the communtiy that would be interested in discussing the feasibility and costs associated with a project such as this?

Thanks

#9 @JC: It sounds like you're making a rather limited size world a specific customer base? If that's the case, then it's not as hard as a WoW-type persistent world, though it still has some significant challenges. The biggest problem I see is trying to get it to work in a browser plugin. I'd love to have something like that for my own PW project, but the problem that immediately comes to mind is that of pushing data around, but that's also from my ignorance with how those browser plugins work with game engines.

In any event, I believe that there was a resource out there for ActiveX packaging of the engine? Do a search for it and see what comes up, I'm sure there's some helpful information on it even if it isn't what you need.

#10 @JC - Are you wanting a 3D world in the browser or can it be 2D?

@Everyone who thinks people can't make MMOG/Virtual Worlds as their first game - You obviously haven't been to IMGDC, nor have you seen what Tony Richards did in just 90 days for the Dream Games Competition last year. Also of note would be Josh from Prarie Games and his INCREDIBLY small team (3 including artists right Josh?) to build an MMOG that still is pumping along nicely and even allows you to play it in single-player mode.

Just because YOU don't think it's possible, doesn't make it impossible. Start small is GOOD ADVICE, but to say it's not possible is just plain incorrect. I will agree that it's a massive undertaking and requires skill, dedication, discipline and PASSION for what you're building to succeed.

#11 Impossible, no. Improbable, yes. But that goes for most games, though smaller games have a larger chance of getting done. Starting small is no guarantee of completion. I'm glad you guys are spearheading an indie con for MMO developers since it is a huge desire in the indie/hobbyist market. I just wish I even remotely enjoyed MMO's.

#12 Wow (no pun intended) what a great response!

Maybe I should clarify a little more what we are proposing...

We want to create a distributable platform for users to add their own 3D content to, but more in the form of a 3D website, than a 'game' as such. The space would be used for social networking, education, training etc. Kinda like a website where you can see the other users. The content people add is entirely up to them, and by running it on their own (or rented) servers, they decided who has access. We want something that is full 3D, not Flash 2D, or 2.5D like Habbo Hotel.

We also want something that will run in a browser so as to limit the barriers for newbies. If you look at Second Life for instance, it's about a 70 meg download, then a sign up, then an orientation area to negotiate. You're looking at maybe 40 minutes to get inworld for an inexperienced user - and that includes young kids, and older 'silver surfer' types rather than the less than computer literate.

We've looked at numerous games engines to try and achieve this, and also ALL of the currently availble 3D worlds such as Vastpark, Multiverse, Twinity, Opensimulator, Vles,Vside, Unype etc. etc. and still can't find the platform that works for us. So we decided to see if we could commission getting our own built, or modifying something that already exists if that's possible.

You've probably guessed that we are not gamers or programmers - our background is actually in architectural visualisations, and TV graphics, which is why we can't even consider starting this ourselves.

When we found the TGEA, it looked like it might fit the bill with some modifications - hence our post in the forum. We'd be very glad to discuss in more depth with anyone out there who thinks they might be able to provide what we need, and have a full brief available to the right person.

Just wanted to add that this is probably the fastest replying forum that we've tried yet ;)

#13 JC i think multiverse is more up your alley. Do a google search for it. It's a free 3D world development kit, unless you go commercial and in that case they still host it for you, but take like 25% revenues or something like that.

#14 Yep - we checked out Multiverse, which is pretty close except the graphics are not really very impressive, and the users can't host it themselves. We find it really odd that no one is offering a product with these features as it's what most people seem to be asking for in the forums. Thanks for your comment.

#15 What you are looking for is what Adobe Atmosphere was.

Torque is 100 times better than atmospherere was, but.....

1. You will have to code the browser support
2. You will have to write a collaberation server. Without this connecting all the servers together, it won't work.
3. If you want to import regular objects (.3ds, .max, etc...) you will have to add the api or make sure your artists know how to export to torque.

Finding someone to code this isn't going to be easy. It's a huge undertaking, plus, both you and the coder would have to have a special lisence from GG as the lisence has changed and this isn't "a game".

#16

Quote:we checked out Multiverse, which is pretty close except the graphics are not really very impressive, and the users can't host it themselves.

The second part is true, but not the first. MV has the usual DX9 graphics capability. It just has programmer art and rudimentary shaders in its default asset repository. You can build comparable visual quality with TGEA and MV. There are a number of areas where MV is better at that this kind of thing than TGEA (or TGEA with pyTorque), such as the zoneless architecture, native use of collada, etc. There are a number of paces where Torque holds an advantage, such as interiors, latency, a proper Z-axis (MV uses a quadtree, not an octreee) and being able to cut holes in the terrain if you have underground structures.