Can you use the networking code with anouther engine?

#1 If I am not mistaken this is a big no no according to the EULA. I am sure one of the GG folks (JeffT? Jay?) can give the definative regarding this.


-Ron

#2 Legally: No.

Technically: Difficult approaching impossible, and a stupid idea anyway.

#3 It's not a very good idea... but if you license the source, why couldn't you?

-J

#4 Licensee may not redistribute, transfer, sublicense or sell the Software or exploit the Software in any other manner than as expressly allowed in this Agreement.

(a) Licensee may not: (i) modify or create any derivative works of the Software, including translations or localizations, other than the Games; (ii) reverse engineer, or otherwise attempt to derive the algorithms for the Software (except to the extent applicable laws specifically prohibit such restriction); (iii) redistribute, encumber, sell, rent, lease, sublicense, or otherwise transfer rights to the Software; or (iv) remove or alter any trademark, logo, copyright or other proprietary notices, legends, symbols or labels in the Software.

-- The Torque License.

#5 I for one don't see the problem. If you license the Torque engine, you don't have to use ALL of it do you? Why not rip out just the network code to use in your 'game'?

I'm not commenting on the practicality of doing this, just the legality.

#6 Well, if you still call it "The Torque Engine" (and use it according to the license) you should be fine I guess, but you can't rip out code and put it into another/your own engine.

#7 This type of use is the point of the clause about reverse engineering. It is not a legal use of the code.

Jeff Tunnell GG

#8 Then start with torque and rebuild the presentation layer, rather than the other way round. Legal yes, a way of sidesteping the license... not a chance.

#9 Wow this is more hastle then I expected. I am not trying to reengineer anything. I simply want to use the existing torque networking code/scripts with anouther engine. I am not calling it my own. I am simply using 2 engines together. Each engine will stay seperate. And they will get their money's as brought out in their licensing agreements. (I do not know how this breaks any legality issues?)

So with that said, How difficult would this be? Is it even worth trying with this engine? Is there a better option?

#10 It's included in that RE "clause". You can't just take code out and put it into another engine. That's what it sounds like you're trying to do.

#11 So, I can not use anouther engine with the torque engine? My whole game must be made with torque?

#12 You can add whatever code you want to the TGE. However, you cannot rip code from the TGE and place it into your own source tree.

#13 It might be wise to contact a GG employee and have this discussion with them in a more interactive fashion...

This is just getting silly :P

#14 This is a silly argument/discussion if you have seen the Torque source, since the "netcode" in Torque is the engine pretty much. There is no way to "rip it out" and "use it somewhere else".

I am doing the opposite, I am re-writing Torque from somewhere in the middle of the "game" portion of the object model to allow for more conherent and cleaner object oriented programming of games that don't rely on the Tribes 2 legacy cruft that permeates the engine from a certain point on.

More than legal issues is practical issues which is I doubt the "netcode" can be lifted out wholesale and used indepenantly of the rest of the engine because of the tight coupling there really is no "netcode" to lift out.

#15 I just want to rip that green box and put it in my game QuickBASIC game.

Muuuuuuuuahahhahahaha

+Eric "I lost my marbles from debugging too much" Forhan

#16 I just want to rip out that black console window ;)

Anyway... what graphic engine is good enough to compete with Torque and has a lousy network system?
Just take Torque, modify it to suit your needs. I'm 100% sure it will take less time then ripping out its netcode and getting it to work with another graphics engine.

#17 The Torque engine is not a mass of LEGO blocks where you can rip out the one labeled "netcode" and put it on your mass of bricks. You can not do it without rewriting it, and that defeats the purpose. You can't legally do it, and Jeff has confirmed that above.

#18 Thank you all for the information, this was very helpful. The thing is that I do not want to redo all the work I have done so far. But if it comes to that then I must. Is there any other option or dll or code, anything that would work for my situation?

#19 You could probably integrate your existing work into Torque...

It really depends on what you've got. I'd be surprised if you had a significant amount of stuff that wasn't gameplay that Torque didn't already have, or could be modified to do.

Worst case, I guess, you just remove all of Torque's rendering, input, and sound code and replace it with your own. (Someone naysay me if that's illegal, but I doubt it)

#20 If you want to use the Torque network technology in a different engine, why not read up the document Tim Gift and Mark Frohnmayer wrote up on the tribes engine networking model?

Implement it yourself from scratch, I think it'd be more rewarding and a better use of your time than attempting to rip it out of the torque (plus the fact that you can't due to the license agreement).

Here's the link to the resource:
http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=331

It's definitely not an easy task but I think it'd definitely be a 'better' waste of time :)