Mystified by Lack of Documentation
by Sarah Lambert · in Torque X 2D · 03/22/2008 (4:29 am) · 17 replies
Hi! To say I'm confused would be an understatement. I've downloaded XNA 2.0 and Torque X 2.0, and they're all set up fine. The code makes sense, the XML is readable, all of the demos (the FPS one, etc.) compile and run beautifully, and I'm highly impressed.
...But where's the documentation? The .chm file in Torque's directory references the T3D API, but the .html file with the actual tutorials acts like it doesn't exist and mentions names of tutorals (Futuristic Strategy Master?) that aren't even included in the distribution.
I'm guessing that the Torque X 2.0 tutorials haven't been finished and the 1.0 ones were thrown in instead, but it's sort of annoying that there's no warning about that. Anyway, is there somewhere that I can find tutorials created by users of Torque X 2.0?
I can muck through the API references if I really have to, but what I'm hoping for are a list of basic bullet points, and overviews of the demo apps just like the overviews of the 1.0 demo apps. It would ease my studies considerably.
Is there anything like this available?
...But where's the documentation? The .chm file in Torque's directory references the T3D API, but the .html file with the actual tutorials acts like it doesn't exist and mentions names of tutorals (Futuristic Strategy Master?) that aren't even included in the distribution.
I'm guessing that the Torque X 2.0 tutorials haven't been finished and the 1.0 ones were thrown in instead, but it's sort of annoying that there's no warning about that. Anyway, is there somewhere that I can find tutorials created by users of Torque X 2.0?
I can muck through the API references if I really have to, but what I'm hoping for are a list of basic bullet points, and overviews of the demo apps just like the overviews of the 1.0 demo apps. It would ease my studies considerably.
Is there anything like this available?
#2
03/22/2008 (8:39 am)
I haven't seen much T3D documentation yet, but there may be a TorqueX book coming out in a few short months which covers T2D and T3D (See John's posts at bottom of http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=73046). 
#3
John K.
03/22/2008 (10:07 am)
Documentation is definitely a strong issue. Having a great game engine isn't much help if you don't know how to use it. But now that 2.0 has been released, the documentation is being updated - starting with the tutorials. As mentioned, I have a book on Torque X that will be printing this summer that covers 2D, 3D, some AI, GUI, Shaders, and so on. The book is my attempt to bring everyone interested in Torque X together with a common understanding of the engine and how to use it, so we can all focus on making games. John K.
#4
I'm pretty impressed with Torque, so I'll probably just muck through the code samples and post on here if I have any questions.
An engine that's truly commercially proven (unlike some, such as 3DGS, which claim to be commercial-grade even though they've never been used in anything that turned a profit), tailor-made for XNA, and free on top of all of that, is like a dream come true. I was hoping I wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel, since I can't really port my more standard 3D engine to XNA without rewriting it, and this is the solution.
I'm actually tempted now to patch together some rudimentary tutorials of my own once I have a firmer grasp of things. I'm sure they'd be appreciated in the interim before the book release. :)
03/22/2008 (11:05 am)
I will definitely be interested in that when it comes. :) I've read your work before, and it's always been very approachable. There's more of a market than ever for such a book, what with Microsoft's intentions to give even homebrew XNA developers a marketplace of their own.I'm pretty impressed with Torque, so I'll probably just muck through the code samples and post on here if I have any questions.
An engine that's truly commercially proven (unlike some, such as 3DGS, which claim to be commercial-grade even though they've never been used in anything that turned a profit), tailor-made for XNA, and free on top of all of that, is like a dream come true. I was hoping I wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel, since I can't really port my more standard 3D engine to XNA without rewriting it, and this is the solution.
I'm actually tempted now to patch together some rudimentary tutorials of my own once I have a firmer grasp of things. I'm sure they'd be appreciated in the interim before the book release. :)
#5
03/27/2008 (3:50 am)
John, can you tell us already when the updated tutorials will come out? And is there also one covering GUIs like the TorqueCombat from TorqueX 1.0? Plus where can i preorder your book ;-)?
#6
John K.
03/28/2008 (12:57 pm)
I'm going to update the tutorials this weekend and post them for download. They will also be bundled into the next release of Torque X. As for the book, it should be available on Amazon pretty soon. I have been working hard to make it available by this summer, just in time for Fall classes. Also, there is no solid documentation for UI just yet. Once I'm finished with the 3D designer, I'll put together a good write up on creating a flexible user interface.John K.
#7
03/29/2008 (12:11 pm)
Excellent news John ;-)! Sounds strange, but i can't wait the weekend to be over ;-).
#8
www.garagegames.com/blogs/44338/14528
John K.
03/30/2008 (8:29 pm)
Well, the weekend is over. And as promised, here's a link to download the updated tutorials. www.garagegames.com/blogs/44338/14528
John K.
#9
03/30/2008 (10:43 pm)
Excellent. Thanks John (and Josef!)
#10
The first one will cover the GUI system and how to load splash screens, menu screens and multiple levels.
Look for it in the next few days.
03/31/2008 (12:56 am)
I've got about half a dozen new tutorials for TorqueX 2.0 in the works.The first one will cover the GUI system and how to load splash screens, menu screens and multiple levels.
Look for it in the next few days.
#11
03/31/2008 (6:53 am)
Thanks John...as soon as i get home i gonna try them ;-)! And good news Josef, a GUi Tut is exactely what i am looking for the most right now ;-).
#12
*edit* I really wish GG would release docs. Look at the GUI documentation, it says that the GUI system is not (de)serializable to XML, and yet if you look at the TankBuster demo you can clearly see that there are .gui files, which are XML.
03/31/2008 (12:27 pm)
Can't wait Josef!*edit* I really wish GG would release docs. Look at the GUI documentation, it says that the GUI system is not (de)serializable to XML, and yet if you look at the TankBuster demo you can clearly see that there are .gui files, which are XML.
#13
Any doc, at least functions and classes references will be absolutly of great help.
Thks for all, and sorry for my bad english!
04/01/2008 (2:26 pm)
Hi! You know when we will have any docs? I tried to learn with FPS demo, but without proper docs is really difficult to work with T3D... At this moment is more easy to me to work directly with xna that with Torque X t3d (obviusly any game in 2d is more easy with torque ^^)Any doc, at least functions and classes references will be absolutly of great help.
Thks for all, and sorry for my bad english!
#14
For right now, I'm sifting through the source to see if I can determine what exactly TorqueX expects a skinned DTS model to contain for it to display properly and I am having little success. I'm sure a 250 word tutorial could clear it up in 10 seconds. (Static models work fine, but when I toss a few bones on my 3dsmax model and export it, the model never appears, and I get no errors on export or in engine.)
Still, it is kinda of exciting to try and brute force your way through a new engine. The side benefit being if you can actually figure it out on your own, you'll probably understand in ways that tutorial taught people would never grasp.
04/06/2008 (1:51 pm)
I must admit I was sort-of okay with the Creator's Club version not coming with documentation, but when I upgraded to the Pro version of TorqueX 2.0 I was extremely surprised that there was no real explanation for how the 3d stuff all works. Sure I've poked around the FPS demo as well and with the API can at least determine what the main flow of it all is, but without a good solid understanding of how all these peices work together I'm not certain I truly can "figure it all out". For right now, I'm sifting through the source to see if I can determine what exactly TorqueX expects a skinned DTS model to contain for it to display properly and I am having little success. I'm sure a 250 word tutorial could clear it up in 10 seconds. (Static models work fine, but when I toss a few bones on my 3dsmax model and export it, the model never appears, and I get no errors on export or in engine.)
Still, it is kinda of exciting to try and brute force your way through a new engine. The side benefit being if you can actually figure it out on your own, you'll probably understand in ways that tutorial taught people would never grasp.
#15
04/06/2008 (2:13 pm)
We do have a lot of our eggs in one basket so to speak regarding the 3D documentation, but John K. has been writing a detailed and comprehensive book on both the 2d and 3d engines within TorqueX, and we're hoping to see it available as soon as possible.
#16
you might probably be aware of the fact that we are hoping as well that there will be a book available some time in the future. but reality is that this book will be probably not be on shelves before summer.
and it's not that much to ask to just put up a few html pages with a short (!SHORT!) description of the basic concepts to at least give us something to get started with. then when lot of people see how it works there will be enough tutorials growing in the community I think.
I personally just downloaded the torquex for the trial time which is completely useless because the lack of documentation. i really like what you did with this engine and the way this is going, the upcoming 3d editor also looks amazing. but just get some people to at least put up two or three small tutorials per week.
please?
04/06/2008 (4:10 pm)
What eggs in one basket??? you might probably be aware of the fact that we are hoping as well that there will be a book available some time in the future. but reality is that this book will be probably not be on shelves before summer.
and it's not that much to ask to just put up a few html pages with a short (!SHORT!) description of the basic concepts to at least give us something to get started with. then when lot of people see how it works there will be enough tutorials growing in the community I think.
I personally just downloaded the torquex for the trial time which is completely useless because the lack of documentation. i really like what you did with this engine and the way this is going, the upcoming 3d editor also looks amazing. but just get some people to at least put up two or three small tutorials per week.
please?
#17
Although I really like your engine I would not recommended for future developments
04/15/2008 (9:55 pm)
I think that documentation is a must. I would prefer you to freeze any future development and provide acceptable documentation. I am also worried that most examples don't work on newer engine versions and there is not even a CHANGES document explaining how to port from one version to the other...Although I really like your engine I would not recommended for future developments
Torque Owner Sarah Lambert
I'm aware that TXB does not support 3D games yet, but I'd still like to use the T3D system for my game, I just don't learn very well from staring at a list of API calls. :/