Size Matters
by William Shellman · in Artist Corner · 02/15/2008 (5:22 pm) · 6 replies
O.K.! I have been working with QuArk, Blender, and Torque for about 6 months now and I have come quite a long way, but I still have a frustrating annoyance. I can create models with no problems, but as far as the proper scale to create them in, I can't find the settings for the grid size in QuArk, Blender, or Torque. What I mean to say is, I can see a grid in each program, and so I create my models based on the 1 grid squares system. I have used this method in the past, and most things came out fairly proportioned, but recently, I may have accidentally hit a wrong button in QuArk, and now the grid is gone.
Only the axis lines remain, and everything I try to scale just isn't even close. I have the models files upon request, and I realize that the method I'm using is probably unorthodox, but it was working until QuArk caught this glitch. What I was asking was, how can I get the grid in QuArk back to normal? Also, there is a misunderstanding with the scale between the 3 aforementioned programs. I am trying to understand this system, but I am still quite confused about it. First, in Torque! If you are looking at the grid (or Checkers), and you focus on 1 grid square, what is that measurement? Second, in QuArk, in the same fashion, is 1 grid square equal to the 1 grid square in Torque, or does it take 32 QuArk grid squares to equal 1 Torque grid square, and what are those measurements? Lastly, in Blender, same way, is 1 Blender grid square equal to 1 QuArk grid sqaure and so on. What I need to know is, what is the numerical difference in the size of the individual grid sqaures of the 3 programs.
Perhaps a chart or map to illustrate the range difference. For instance, the Torque grid square being the largest of the group, the QuArk grid square placed in one corner showing a smaller form, and a 3rd square representing a Blender unit either equal in size to the QuArk unit, or slightly smaller, I don't know the actual ratios, but you can get the idea. Anyway, I hope someone can help me clear this up once and for all. I'm sorry if I just can't get it, but it's very tricky and confusing. Thanks for any help out there!
Only the axis lines remain, and everything I try to scale just isn't even close. I have the models files upon request, and I realize that the method I'm using is probably unorthodox, but it was working until QuArk caught this glitch. What I was asking was, how can I get the grid in QuArk back to normal? Also, there is a misunderstanding with the scale between the 3 aforementioned programs. I am trying to understand this system, but I am still quite confused about it. First, in Torque! If you are looking at the grid (or Checkers), and you focus on 1 grid square, what is that measurement? Second, in QuArk, in the same fashion, is 1 grid square equal to the 1 grid square in Torque, or does it take 32 QuArk grid squares to equal 1 Torque grid square, and what are those measurements? Lastly, in Blender, same way, is 1 Blender grid square equal to 1 QuArk grid sqaure and so on. What I need to know is, what is the numerical difference in the size of the individual grid sqaures of the 3 programs.
Perhaps a chart or map to illustrate the range difference. For instance, the Torque grid square being the largest of the group, the QuArk grid square placed in one corner showing a smaller form, and a 3rd square representing a Blender unit either equal in size to the QuArk unit, or slightly smaller, I don't know the actual ratios, but you can get the idea. Anyway, I hope someone can help me clear this up once and for all. I'm sorry if I just can't get it, but it's very tricky and confusing. Thanks for any help out there!
About the author
#2
02/17/2008 (2:37 am)
Thanks, Ramen-sama! So you basically have to play it by ear, so to speak? I use the Torque "Player" model scale from the engine to check the models I create, then document the problems and create a scale guide from the results. It works fairly well for me on most projects. 
#3
...so, if the 1:1 scale holds true[unit to unit], how tall is 2.4 units, well, it's 2.4 METERS. That is well above 'average' human size; something like in excess of 7 IMPERIAL FEET!
So, if you model to real world units[feet/metric], you will need to Scale up your diffs on export to match KORKIE. So, anywhere's from a 1.4~1.525 scale increase will match the objects to KORK, if you're using the default avatar as a scaling reference...
Of course, if you're using Constructor where you can insert a reference shape...and it should all be moot; however, if you're using a '3rd' party program to create and export your objects...study up on it's 'units' and conversion.
As an example: I use gameSpace to generate my meshes. I can create a cube primitive with the real world dimension of 1 meter square in my modeling program. When I export this to Milkshape3D, this 1 'meter' cube primitive is now one Milkshape 'unit' square. If I export this correctly at a Scale factor of "1"...when I view this object in the engine, it should be one Torque 'unit' and it is about less than half the height of KORKIE...however; anything built to 'real world' scales will seem minute in Heroic proportioned[more like gorilla proportions, arms way too long....] KORKIES hands or compared to it's body height.
...hope this made some kind of sense about Scale in modelling programs and Torque.
I 'think' that QUARK is set to 32 units?segments??...so it may be in inches. Constructor[free program] is set to the Torque scale, may be easier to work in that? Good luck, I tried Quark, it's okay, made a fairly large/complex structure with it...I think I ended up making a cube in QUARK that represented the playerAvatar bounding box. I think I converted Torque[psuedoMetric] to Imperial and then used those measurements to create the primitive in QUARK. Textured it with a snapshot of the player on each face...poof! Spawn entity/starting point.
Good Luck.
02/17/2008 (7:21 am)
The KORK playerAvatar is like 2.3/4 'units' tall.......so, if the 1:1 scale holds true[unit to unit], how tall is 2.4 units, well, it's 2.4 METERS. That is well above 'average' human size; something like in excess of 7 IMPERIAL FEET!
So, if you model to real world units[feet/metric], you will need to Scale up your diffs on export to match KORKIE. So, anywhere's from a 1.4~1.525 scale increase will match the objects to KORK, if you're using the default avatar as a scaling reference...
Of course, if you're using Constructor where you can insert a reference shape...and it should all be moot; however, if you're using a '3rd' party program to create and export your objects...study up on it's 'units' and conversion.
As an example: I use gameSpace to generate my meshes. I can create a cube primitive with the real world dimension of 1 meter square in my modeling program. When I export this to Milkshape3D, this 1 'meter' cube primitive is now one Milkshape 'unit' square. If I export this correctly at a Scale factor of "1"...when I view this object in the engine, it should be one Torque 'unit' and it is about less than half the height of KORKIE...however; anything built to 'real world' scales will seem minute in Heroic proportioned[more like gorilla proportions, arms way too long....] KORKIES hands or compared to it's body height.
...hope this made some kind of sense about Scale in modelling programs and Torque.
I 'think' that QUARK is set to 32 units?segments??...so it may be in inches. Constructor[free program] is set to the Torque scale, may be easier to work in that? Good luck, I tried Quark, it's okay, made a fairly large/complex structure with it...I think I ended up making a cube in QUARK that represented the playerAvatar bounding box. I think I converted Torque[psuedoMetric] to Imperial and then used those measurements to create the primitive in QUARK. Textured it with a snapshot of the player on each face...poof! Spawn entity/starting point.
Good Luck.
#4
Kork is indeed a giant comparatively speaking. 2.4m is probably about right.
02/17/2008 (9:46 am)
32 Quark Units = 1 Torque unit = ~1 meter. The scale is set in the worldspawn entity inside QuArK (or any other CSG modeling tool).Kork is indeed a giant comparatively speaking. 2.4m is probably about right.
#5
02/17/2008 (2:02 pm)
I've never used Quark but in Constructor I have pretty good results assuming that 0.4 units = 1 foot, which puts Kork and the elf at 6 ft tall. I use real houseplans as templates for my interiors and and I'm content with how they appear in Torque.
#6
02/18/2008 (5:04 am)
Thank you, my friends! I may need to specify the figure I am using in Torque. It is the default "Blue Guy". I was under the impression that this was the standard model for a human model. The documentation states that he is 2.4meters tall, the width is not stated but I assume around 1 to 1.5meters wide. Blender units are what I use to guide my other models. I use 2 units vertically and 1 unit horizontally to measure a charactor. I have found this format to work pretty well, and have resloved the issue with QuArk's grid. It still acts a little strange, but the models are beginning to straighten up. Thanks for all your help!
Torque Owner Cinder Games
That's how it is for most modeling programs. dunno about quark and co