Rune and Linux Commercial Viability

#1 That sounds bad. But, there's no guarantee that it will stay that way. :)

#2 Kinda unfair to judge on 1 game...which platform did I buy Rune on? none cause I wasnt interested in it.

I think a better judge would be something like NWN or UT2003.

-Tim aka Spock

#3 No, it's very fair. Linux is a niche product. It has ver little market share, and it's not likelly to change. Most programs people want don't run on it, and it's nowhere near as easy to setup run and maintain as windows. There just plain is no reason for most people to change to it. They like windows because it's simple, mindless and the software they want runs on it.

Minako

#4 No matter your opinion, that is still around 1000 copies extra sold that would not have been had there been no linux version. When you think about an indie project, if all those linux people buy your game your doing really good.

IMO it would be dumb not to make a linux version with torque (after all you basically just have to compile it as all the other work of porting has been done for you)

I still dont agree with your opinion but its yours so no further argument.

-Tim aka Spock

#5 I wouldn't expect all those Linux people to buy it. I'd expect the same sort of breakdown, with Linux being next to none of the sales by percentage. With Torque, yeah, it's not a big deal. On a commerical project I honestly wouldn't bother to have my code staff make a Linux ver unless I had solid data the product would sell enough on Linux to not only pay for the time they're making it work on Linux, but to justify that time that they could be working on other features for the product.

If you like Linux, well, great, but it's a niche product. And I just can't see that changing any time soon.

Minako

#6 I would expect all of them to buy it. Linux people dont get many games so they buy what does get put on linux to support it.

-Tim aka Spock

#7 None of loki's games did all that great compared to the windows versions. One because windows has a much larger installed base. But most importantly becuase loki's games were already ages old by the time they were ported. I agree that NWN or UT2K3 will be a better judge of Linux viability.
Still I do all of my development from within linux, even going so far as to compile programs for windows from within linux, so supporting linux isn't that hard for me. It's not that hard for even a from scratch project if they use OpenGL instead of Direct3D. That makes porting to ANY system much easier, as Direct3D is windows only.

#8 Actually the main reason why Loki's games never made it very fair is because the people who they ported the games for never did the publishing for it, they just left it out in the cold while Loki had to publish it them selfs and sell it them selfs. Sure they had some resellers, but notice how all loki games have sold out at all resellers?

It is very hard to find any titles ported by Loki, well for Tribes2 anyway. People who say it isn't worth porting their product to linux is basically saying the same about game consoles. Not very many people buy games for PS2 when there is a PC port since the PC port is always better while the console port just seems to be awful(ex. StarTrek Voyager: Elite Force)

#9 I think console vs PC really depends on the type of game. But I agree about Linux, I'm not even sure all the original publishers made it known their WAS a linux port. That's why NWN and Unreal 2003 are going to be interested. Although Quake III and the original UT didn't do all that great on Linux, I think linux has been growing at a rather large rate.

#10 Like it was said before, a lot of the Loki games were released many months later after the windows release. You're gonna lose a lot fo sells right there because of the number people who are impatient and who will reboot to play on windows.

I believe the Linux market is slowly improving. There's been a real lack of (commercial) games since Loki died. We've had RtCW, Creature Labs, and a couple other small games.

Nwn, when it does come out will certainly be a boost, however, a lot of linux gamers are angry because the game port was promised to be done at the same time as the windows version, and they only let us know it would be delayed when they went gold. Now, just like with other games, they're gonna lose a lot of Linux sales because of the (unexpected) delay. Hopefully, the sales will still be significant.

UT2k3 is something I would base the current market on. They released an unannounced Linux port which will actually be on the CD. That was really awesome of Epic, considering they were developing the whole engine with DirectX.

I think if you're make a commercial project, and you already focus on writing your code in a clean platform-independent fashion, it might be worthwhile to pursue a Linux (and a Mac) port. That's just my opinion of course.

By the way, there are still many Loki games available at Tux Games.

Here's a good article on the development of the Linux client of UT2k3

#11 Speaking of Tux games, I just dloaded, installed, and played thier Tux Racer game with just a few clicks of the mouse. Yes, Linux hasn't gained as much popularity as Windows because as Minako said, it's nowhere near as easy to setup run and maintain as windows. However, www.lindows.com seems to make Linux as easy.

Thier Click&Run Warehouse is great for browsing for, dloading, installing, running, and even uninstalling games and other Linux software, it's a snap! I think this would be an ideal place to put Torque game demos. Possibly even a few full version games, as I was able to dload the Full version of Tux Racer. Possibly Garagegames could debut some games on Lindow's Click&Run Warehouse when Lindows is scheduled to go Live at the end of this year? I think this would be great marketing for both companies.It would be pretty awesome to have access to many independent Linux games at just a few clicks of the mouse!

#12 Xandros/Lindos and yes even redhat have made Linux *easier* to install than windows =D

on the other hand getting decent 3d drivers on a linux box is like pulling teeth.

-brad

#13 Linux will be coming out of it's niche soon I think. It's making inroads on the desktop but it's begining to soar in server market share. Sooner or later companies will begin to realize that they paying to maintain two different systems, one free and (more)secure, one with licensing fees that get hacked every month.

If companies start making moves towards Linux on their desktops it'll certainly drive up the home market share for Linux.

#14 I agree. A lot of the problem with linux sales has been the fact that they are either stupid titles, or that they were released months after they had already missed their window.

I can remember the hours I have spent with wine and half-life just so that I could play Counter-Strike and DoD, until Valve botched everything up with their useless and vastly inferior anti-cheat product, at which point I was forced to install windows to play.

I chose this engine specifically so I could write a title and have it playable under both linux and windows. And if the audience requires it I can relatively easily add a MAC/OSX version.

Frankly, I don't really see the reason Joshua posted that link, or perhaps the way it was worded. The cold reality here is people with vision for the future. Lets take a look at linux from the beginning. And look where it is now. Please note, its _FREE_. Do you think any commertial product could have followed this success on the budget linux has been run on?

As time goes on, and linux becomes more and more user friendly more people will use it. Lets face it, probably 50-60% of all windows copies are more than likely pirated or hidden/added (forcefully I might add) into the cost of the computer the individual purchased. So as "dumbed down" versions of linux are released and become more "every day joe" friendly, we will see an increase in the support of a linux gaming community. And I for one want to be ahead of the ball on this one.

And that, is the beauty of this engine. I can develop for both at the same time. I wish all engines were written like this. Clearly some insightful thinking on the part of the dynamix team.

Stay tuned for whats in store!

#15 @ James and J. Donovan: Huzzah!!!!

As a huge fan of Unreal engine games, I have found that in the case of UT and Rune the most reliable servers have always been on LINUX. The Rune Clan usually always plays on Linux servers for this reason (VIVA [REY]!!!) I wasn't a big T2 player but I have seen numerous Linux servers for it as well. The whole reason for me to be adamant about porting to Linux as well as Win/Mac is to offer a viable/reliable server version. Obviously Linux versions will not sell as weel but as easy as it is to port Torque to it it's silly not to offer it. I do think that a wise indie would do well to make Linux community aware of thier title, as Linux gamers usually do buy every title that comes out...