Max9 64bit, Milkshape, Poser7, TorqueConstructor i/o dts problem
by Noh Dih · in Torque Game Engine · 02/05/2008 (2:28 pm) · 6 replies
YAHSHUA YHWH GOD BLESS you,
i am working in the WinXP 64 bit, 4 (3.5 technically) Gb of ram, 2 6800 NVIDIA cards but not in SLI mode (i am using dual monitors instead), dual core cpu on A8N-SLI (not exactly enough computing power to be fast but enough to be outright slow).
i am using 3ds Max 9 64bit. i took the plug in, max2dtsExporterPro.dle from this web site to export to the .dts format and the 3ds Max program crashes (the error report only says unhandled exception). i tested the set up by exporting to other formats such as .obj and reading with Blender and that test went fine. i updated 3ds Max 9 64 to service pack 2 (i installed 1 then 2) hoping that there just something wrong with the 3ds Max 9 64 format of reading the plug ins but that did not work and now even export to .obj file crashes the program.
i downloaded Torque constructor but the program is missing anyway to import anything other than its native .dts format (which is odd since i have been told 3ds Max excels at modeling).
i purchased Milkshape so that i could import files in the .3ds (hopefully the other formats) but the program says that the models have too many vertices/faces. i used Milkshape to import the .obj file (which it did finally but from purchased models from Content Paradise, Milkshape will not see Poser 7 .obj files), exported a .dts file (with bounding box Game Engine DTS exporter), and tested the file in Torque Constructor (which is not even as simple to use as 3ds Max 9 or Blender). Torque Constructor opens up a mangled model (i know it is mangled since it looks great in 3ds Max 9 or Vue xStream). i go back reimport the file import in .obj format and go to export using the Torque DTS Plus exporter and the entire Milkshape program crashes. i use a program like Blender to import .3ds and output a .obj file (since .3ds produces to many vertices/faces) but Milkshape only sees some .obj files (Milkshape sees natively made objects that it exports as .obj not imported .3ds files exported to .obj).
i have used the program obj2dts (naming the file with a number at the end of the file name). i have renamed the different objects so that they end with numbers. At one point i got Poser 7 finger tips in .dts file all the other files turned up nothing.
So far between crashing 3ds Max 9 (which i reported as a bug to Autodesk for the .dts and .obj file exporter), Milkshape crashing for the Torque DTS Plus exporter and varioius results for the Game Engine DTS exporter, various results with Blender, and all the results not producing models usable by Torque (except once which i cannot even remember how, what or why that happened).
Is it possible to produce models for the Torque Game Engine oustide of using Torque Constructor? Is there an actual working .obj and .dts exporter for 3ds Max 9 64 bit?
Will Poser 7 be a usable program in this work flow?
Are there missing features in Torque Constructor i am missing since it is the native modeling tool which i would think could import a 3ds Max 9 file? Are there plug ins for Torque Constructor that expand its very limited import export features?
Is there really a way that people use 3ds Max 9 64 bit, Poser 7, Vue xStream, Milkshape 1.8.??, Torque Constructor, TGEA (just purchased since i thought it would help) to make games?
::::sighing:::: i have been going through this since Sunday 3rd, 2008 for around 18 hour days with no solution. i forwarded the files to a professor at Devry but no solution (Poser 7 files with textures, logs from the obj2dts logs, and original Poser 7 file).
i would really like to have those plug ins so i can work in 3ds Max 9 64bit (which is the main modeling program) and be able to export models usable by Torque but at this point i have no idea how that is going to be done considering the crashes, and even these forums report a great deal of difficulty on the issue of file exchange. If you have a solution i would like to hear. i am hoping a GarageGames person has an answer.
Dih
i am working in the WinXP 64 bit, 4 (3.5 technically) Gb of ram, 2 6800 NVIDIA cards but not in SLI mode (i am using dual monitors instead), dual core cpu on A8N-SLI (not exactly enough computing power to be fast but enough to be outright slow).
i am using 3ds Max 9 64bit. i took the plug in, max2dtsExporterPro.dle from this web site to export to the .dts format and the 3ds Max program crashes (the error report only says unhandled exception). i tested the set up by exporting to other formats such as .obj and reading with Blender and that test went fine. i updated 3ds Max 9 64 to service pack 2 (i installed 1 then 2) hoping that there just something wrong with the 3ds Max 9 64 format of reading the plug ins but that did not work and now even export to .obj file crashes the program.
i downloaded Torque constructor but the program is missing anyway to import anything other than its native .dts format (which is odd since i have been told 3ds Max excels at modeling).
i purchased Milkshape so that i could import files in the .3ds (hopefully the other formats) but the program says that the models have too many vertices/faces. i used Milkshape to import the .obj file (which it did finally but from purchased models from Content Paradise, Milkshape will not see Poser 7 .obj files), exported a .dts file (with bounding box Game Engine DTS exporter), and tested the file in Torque Constructor (which is not even as simple to use as 3ds Max 9 or Blender). Torque Constructor opens up a mangled model (i know it is mangled since it looks great in 3ds Max 9 or Vue xStream). i go back reimport the file import in .obj format and go to export using the Torque DTS Plus exporter and the entire Milkshape program crashes. i use a program like Blender to import .3ds and output a .obj file (since .3ds produces to many vertices/faces) but Milkshape only sees some .obj files (Milkshape sees natively made objects that it exports as .obj not imported .3ds files exported to .obj).
i have used the program obj2dts (naming the file with a number at the end of the file name). i have renamed the different objects so that they end with numbers. At one point i got Poser 7 finger tips in .dts file all the other files turned up nothing.
So far between crashing 3ds Max 9 (which i reported as a bug to Autodesk for the .dts and .obj file exporter), Milkshape crashing for the Torque DTS Plus exporter and varioius results for the Game Engine DTS exporter, various results with Blender, and all the results not producing models usable by Torque (except once which i cannot even remember how, what or why that happened).
Is it possible to produce models for the Torque Game Engine oustide of using Torque Constructor? Is there an actual working .obj and .dts exporter for 3ds Max 9 64 bit?
Will Poser 7 be a usable program in this work flow?
Are there missing features in Torque Constructor i am missing since it is the native modeling tool which i would think could import a 3ds Max 9 file? Are there plug ins for Torque Constructor that expand its very limited import export features?
Is there really a way that people use 3ds Max 9 64 bit, Poser 7, Vue xStream, Milkshape 1.8.??, Torque Constructor, TGEA (just purchased since i thought it would help) to make games?
::::sighing:::: i have been going through this since Sunday 3rd, 2008 for around 18 hour days with no solution. i forwarded the files to a professor at Devry but no solution (Poser 7 files with textures, logs from the obj2dts logs, and original Poser 7 file).
i would really like to have those plug ins so i can work in 3ds Max 9 64bit (which is the main modeling program) and be able to export models usable by Torque but at this point i have no idea how that is going to be done considering the crashes, and even these forums report a great deal of difficulty on the issue of file exchange. If you have a solution i would like to hear. i am hoping a GarageGames person has an answer.
Dih
About the author
#2
i do not think it is the solution since the .obj file now crashes and it was working before the update and now crashes. i also ran optimize (in 3ds Studio Max 9 64 bit) to minimize vertices (which should minimize faces) and the model went from a 1500 vertices to about 700 to 800 (the Content Paradise model) and the program still crashed during export to .dts. From the reading at Devry and other places, 700 vertices is not a lot of vertices. Also, i have tested wtih a simple box and when i go to export using .dts in Max it crashes. i optimized a Poser 7 figure which reports 12,700 faces reduced to 4790 and 6964 vertices reduced to 2912 but Milkshape reports 65908 faces and 39699 vertices for the same model.
The 64 bit max2dtsExporterPro.dle does not work in Max 9 64bit. Is there another one some place?
i also used Blender, Max 9 64 bit, Vue to import the .obj and .3ds files and they work fine. Everything works but Torque related stuff like Milkshape, Torque Constructor, the max2dtsExporterPro.dle plugin and i am not meaning this in a put down way. i am just learning 3ds Max 9, attending Devry, expecting to use Max 64 bit to make the models but this part is proving to be more difficult than all the rest.
Dih
02/05/2008 (3:58 pm)
YAHSHUA YHWH GOD BLESS you Zepp,i do not think it is the solution since the .obj file now crashes and it was working before the update and now crashes. i also ran optimize (in 3ds Studio Max 9 64 bit) to minimize vertices (which should minimize faces) and the model went from a 1500 vertices to about 700 to 800 (the Content Paradise model) and the program still crashed during export to .dts. From the reading at Devry and other places, 700 vertices is not a lot of vertices. Also, i have tested wtih a simple box and when i go to export using .dts in Max it crashes. i optimized a Poser 7 figure which reports 12,700 faces reduced to 4790 and 6964 vertices reduced to 2912 but Milkshape reports 65908 faces and 39699 vertices for the same model.
The 64 bit max2dtsExporterPro.dle does not work in Max 9 64bit. Is there another one some place?
i also used Blender, Max 9 64 bit, Vue to import the .obj and .3ds files and they work fine. Everything works but Torque related stuff like Milkshape, Torque Constructor, the max2dtsExporterPro.dle plugin and i am not meaning this in a put down way. i am just learning 3ds Max 9, attending Devry, expecting to use Max 64 bit to make the models but this part is proving to be more difficult than all the rest.
Dih
#3
I'm working on a demo right now and the artist happens to be using the Max 9 64 bit exporter, and while we had a few issues working through his model (node hierarchy mostly), he was able to get it exported, so I know the exporter itself is working. It's possible the Pro version isn't, but I know the other is.
The next thing that makes me wonder is the node hierarchy in your model(s). Theoretically it shouldn't cause a hard crash in the exporter, but you never know. You may want to check the online documentation for Max to see if anything strikes you.
Another thing to check is to see if you are using anything that is totally (or even partially) unsupported in the exporter itself--check out the DTS Exporter Feature Chart and see if anything sticks out.
One thing I do recommend is using Torque Show Tool Pro to inspect any "successful" exports, just to make sure things are working properly.
02/05/2008 (4:20 pm)
Hmm, you're right then--I assumed (wrongly) that you were trying crazy high poly models (poser tends to kick those out, as you noted).I'm working on a demo right now and the artist happens to be using the Max 9 64 bit exporter, and while we had a few issues working through his model (node hierarchy mostly), he was able to get it exported, so I know the exporter itself is working. It's possible the Pro version isn't, but I know the other is.
The next thing that makes me wonder is the node hierarchy in your model(s). Theoretically it shouldn't cause a hard crash in the exporter, but you never know. You may want to check the online documentation for Max to see if anything strikes you.
Another thing to check is to see if you are using anything that is totally (or even partially) unsupported in the exporter itself--check out the DTS Exporter Feature Chart and see if anything sticks out.
One thing I do recommend is using Torque Show Tool Pro to inspect any "successful" exports, just to make sure things are working properly.
#4
The other side of that is most models that are in Poser only allow you to render them. They do not allow you to export them to other formats and redistribute them in 3D. Check your license for any content you purchase, as you may not be able to use it in realtime 3D simulations at all. It is possible to export them to other formats, but it is against the license in terms of use.
Read all of the Max documentation on TDN, even if it seems out of date for your version of Max. You will find how the exporter expects your models to be setup.
EDIT: Clarification
02/06/2008 (7:56 am)
Poser is not the best at working with reliable geometry as making changes can cause problems. It is also not compatible with rigging for DTS models unless you use the GreenBriar exporter (and I am not familiar with the exporter). For procedural rendering applications, this isn't much of an issue, but for exporters that have specific adherence to format specifications, it can be a killer. The other side of that is most models that are in Poser only allow you to render them. They do not allow you to export them to other formats and redistribute them in 3D. Check your license for any content you purchase, as you may not be able to use it in realtime 3D simulations at all. It is possible to export them to other formats, but it is against the license in terms of use.
Read all of the Max documentation on TDN, even if it seems out of date for your version of Max. You will find how the exporter expects your models to be setup.
EDIT: Clarification
#5
For the time being I'd really suggest using the 32-bit version of max for any dts work. The two versions will happily install side by side and the 32 bit version will of course run just fine in 64-bit windows.
02/06/2008 (8:17 am)
Quote:It's possible the Pro version isn't, but I know the other is.As far as I know the only 64-bit exporter that exist IS the "pro" exporter... (compiling the regular exporter for 64-bit would be an awful lot of work since it relies on a lot of code in torque, basically meaning you have to manage to compile all the torque code for 64-bit too and that's not really a trivial task).
For the time being I'd really suggest using the 32-bit version of max for any dts work. The two versions will happily install side by side and the 32 bit version will of course run just fine in 64-bit windows.
#6
To Blake: Glad for the Poser 7 model tip. i doubted the use of the models for export but i never thought of actually using them. i merely intended to use the posing features of Poser 7 with modeling features from Zbrush (i am just starting by the way, i am a complete novice). i just know that the dials do make posing simpler to keep track of moving people, etc. i am hoping to use Poser to pose, Zbrush to refine meshes and make people, and 3ds Max 9 for the animation and modeling, Vue xStream for the backgrounds.
i was wondering about all the out of date information. i cannot find Max 9 information and the screens look different. Hopefully i can get through most of the information and find a solution. The Greenbriar tools are looking great so far.
To Blikstad: i have installed the 3ds Max 9 32 bit side by side with the 64 bit and the plug in is still crashing the system. The first crash had the autodesk web site recommend updating to service pack 2 (i did in the 32 bit version) and went back into 3ds Max 9 32 bit and the program still crashed. i am looking for another source of the plug in (maybe it was corrupt). Hopefully this can be resolved.
02/06/2008 (3:15 pm)
YAHSHUA YHWH GOD BLESS you Blikstad & Blake,To Blake: Glad for the Poser 7 model tip. i doubted the use of the models for export but i never thought of actually using them. i merely intended to use the posing features of Poser 7 with modeling features from Zbrush (i am just starting by the way, i am a complete novice). i just know that the dials do make posing simpler to keep track of moving people, etc. i am hoping to use Poser to pose, Zbrush to refine meshes and make people, and 3ds Max 9 for the animation and modeling, Vue xStream for the backgrounds.
i was wondering about all the out of date information. i cannot find Max 9 information and the screens look different. Hopefully i can get through most of the information and find a solution. The Greenbriar tools are looking great so far.
To Blikstad: i have installed the 3ds Max 9 32 bit side by side with the 64 bit and the plug in is still crashing the system. The first crash had the autodesk web site recommend updating to service pack 2 (i did in the 32 bit version) and went back into 3ds Max 9 32 bit and the program still crashed. i am looking for another source of the plug in (maybe it was corrupt). Hopefully this can be resolved.
Torque 3D Owner Stephen Zepp
That is your problem. It's also why the exporter crashes in Max 9.
If you are going to be wanting to use extremely detailed models in a real time rendering engine, you need to use a normal map material on a much lower poly model that is actually used in the game.
Also, it's important to understand that Constructor is a Constructive Solid Geometry tool, not a free poly modeler. The only reason to import .dts shapes is to have them treated as totally static objects within your Interior, and Constructor is going to break that model down into "best fit" convex primitives, which almost certainly is even further increasing the total number of polys that will be brought into the game.