Something to learn with?
by Braedon Hinchcliffe · in General Discussion · 12/30/2007 (11:51 pm) · 8 replies
What would you recommend for people who want to learn programming as a hobby. TGB or TXB.
Im thinking TGB is easier to setup as it works out of the box. Where as TXB ive been messing around all day with VC# 2005 and XNA 1.0 without getting it to work.
On the other hand C# is of more real world use than torque script.
Anyways assuming someone has 0% programming knowledge and wants to pick something up for learning use what would you choose?
Im thinking TGB is easier to setup as it works out of the box. Where as TXB ive been messing around all day with VC# 2005 and XNA 1.0 without getting it to work.
On the other hand C# is of more real world use than torque script.
Anyways assuming someone has 0% programming knowledge and wants to pick something up for learning use what would you choose?
#2
12/31/2007 (8:07 am)
I second his notion. I am not very capable at C++ and I find myself asking beginner questions when dealing with TGB. Do yourself a favor learn C++ first then jump over to TGB. 
#3
The definite plu of C# is that there are excellent training materials available for it, though many zero-experience developers who set their sights on game development rarely want to go through a couple of hundred pages of learning to create Windows Forms or understanding unrolling loops because they want to make a game and make it now. That mindset and a learning curve in any software package can be a killer, which is why I usually point them to TGB or BlitzMax. If they have little or no desire for programming, I will point them to TGB's behaviors or Game Maker, Byond, or RPG Maker XP. All of those have programming interfaces, but to get instant results, you do not need to be a programmer. How far those results take them depends on the person, the engine, and the direction of extensibility that they choose.
12/31/2007 (8:21 am)
If starting with 0 knowledge, I would suggest TGB. TorqueScript syntax and usage is much easier to learn, regardless of the userfullness of C#. C#, while a great language, has a significant learning curve for new programmers. Add on to that the learning curve of XNA and TorqueX, and there's a rather large curve. Users won't have to know C# very well to get great results. The tutorials will take them through different gametypes, manipulating chunks of code, etc. But to understand what they are doing so that they can advance beyond the tutorials, they will have to know the basics of C# and OOP, and in many cases, more than the basics.The definite plu of C# is that there are excellent training materials available for it, though many zero-experience developers who set their sights on game development rarely want to go through a couple of hundred pages of learning to create Windows Forms or understanding unrolling loops because they want to make a game and make it now. That mindset and a learning curve in any software package can be a killer, which is why I usually point them to TGB or BlitzMax. If they have little or no desire for programming, I will point them to TGB's behaviors or Game Maker, Byond, or RPG Maker XP. All of those have programming interfaces, but to get instant results, you do not need to be a programmer. How far those results take them depends on the person, the engine, and the direction of extensibility that they choose.
#4
That said, you should eventually learn C++, C#, or Java because those are hard core languages and you'll need those if you plan on going into programming as a career. Of the three, I'd suggest Java because it's very popular, seen as "modern" and it's not owned in whole by Microsoft.
01/02/2008 (10:40 am)
Start with TGB because, as David said, it's simpler. Also, you'll have much more to show for yourself than C++. If you start with C++ you'll be working in the console for months which doesn't impress anybody and doesn't feel particularly inspiring. At least with TorqueScript, you'll have visual feedback as you learn. And, you can implement binary trees, quick sort, etc. with TorqueScript easier than C++. Just because it's TorqueScript doesn't mean you can make over-complicated data structures.That said, you should eventually learn C++, C#, or Java because those are hard core languages and you'll need those if you plan on going into programming as a career. Of the three, I'd suggest Java because it's very popular, seen as "modern" and it's not owned in whole by Microsoft.
#5
Can torquescript lead to C#. Ive noticed that torquescript is alot like c++ without having to declare everything ahead of time.
The biggest problem im noticing with learning is that all the tutorials show you how to do something but don't explain why your doing it.
01/03/2008 (12:28 am)
Well I eventually want to be a designer and producer. But programming is a necessary thing to learn.Can torquescript lead to C#. Ive noticed that torquescript is alot like c++ without having to declare everything ahead of time.
The biggest problem im noticing with learning is that all the tutorials show you how to do something but don't explain why your doing it.
#6
And its NOT that hard anyway.
I'm a Java programmer by trade, although Java and C# are somewhat nicer languages then C++, I think its better to go straight to C++, then Java (and C# if you really must! (its really just MS bastardised Java clone) ) will be easy and you'll know much more about what is happening. :-)
Good luck!
01/03/2008 (2:37 am)
I think you should learn C++, all other languages will then easily fall in to place. Its better to start at the top, rather then to work your way up, trying everything and anything as you go. It may not be that great at first but the end results will be far better :-).And its NOT that hard anyway.
I'm a Java programmer by trade, although Java and C# are somewhat nicer languages then C++, I think its better to go straight to C++, then Java (and C# if you really must! (its really just MS bastardised Java clone) ) will be easy and you'll know much more about what is happening. :-)
Good luck!
#7
I don't really want to go into specifics of each language. But basically C# should be as fast as C++ right?
EDIT: On a side note ive tried learning C++ before. Thats why torquescript is sorta doable for me. I just couldn't learn C++ by making hello world programs all day.
01/03/2008 (11:00 am)
All I hear is C# this and C# that and eventually thats what I want to use. Sides that java is really too slow compared to C++I don't really want to go into specifics of each language. But basically C# should be as fast as C++ right?
EDIT: On a side note ive tried learning C++ before. Thats why torquescript is sorta doable for me. I just couldn't learn C++ by making hello world programs all day.
#8
You were probably learning C++ the wrong way, though if you're learning to program, there are few ways to do it rather than beating it into you. Once you can get the concepts down, learning syntax is easy. That's why it is easy to pick up new languages. You've created "hello world" and a couple of "if/then versus do/while versus case/switch" or the like. You have the background and can make use of it.
I like to use Python as a learning language because it has some great concepts, easy and organized syntax, forces readable style (which detractors despise), and IDLE is a great interpreter to give new programmers quick results.
01/03/2008 (11:37 am)
With JIT, Java's not too bad. Managed C++ and Managed C# should run about the same, though straight C++ usually runs faster than Managed C#. With most modern architectures and applications, the difference is more and more negligible.You were probably learning C++ the wrong way, though if you're learning to program, there are few ways to do it rather than beating it into you. Once you can get the concepts down, learning syntax is easy. That's why it is easy to pick up new languages. You've created "hello world" and a couple of "if/then versus do/while versus case/switch" or the like. You have the background and can make use of it.
I like to use Python as a learning language because it has some great concepts, easy and organized syntax, forces readable style (which detractors despise), and IDLE is a great interpreter to give new programmers quick results.
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