Torque, Maya PLE and UT2k3
by Steven Lawton · in Torque Game Engine · 08/31/2002 (10:27 am) · 9 replies
Snipped from press release from www.planetunreal.com:
"Alias|Wavefront, an SGI company, today announced that its Maya Personal Learning Edition software will be distributed with the highly-anticipated PC game, Unreal Tournament 2003 (UT2003), developed by Digital Extremes in collaboration with Epic Games, Inc. and distributed by Infogrames, Inc. Each UT2003 box will contain a copy of Maya Personal Learning Edition and a special plug-in jointly developed by Epic and San Francisco-based Secret Level, Inc. This plug-in will allow dedicated game players/developers (MOD makers) to build and export game objects and characters to the game engine."
Alias seems to be wanting to penetrate the games market more and more, my question is have garagegames thought about contacting Alias to see if a custom version of the PLE would be possible for Torque. They may be more receptive than Discreet were with Gmax since they are not the leader in the gaming world.
"Alias|Wavefront, an SGI company, today announced that its Maya Personal Learning Edition software will be distributed with the highly-anticipated PC game, Unreal Tournament 2003 (UT2003), developed by Digital Extremes in collaboration with Epic Games, Inc. and distributed by Infogrames, Inc. Each UT2003 box will contain a copy of Maya Personal Learning Edition and a special plug-in jointly developed by Epic and San Francisco-based Secret Level, Inc. This plug-in will allow dedicated game players/developers (MOD makers) to build and export game objects and characters to the game engine."
Alias seems to be wanting to penetrate the games market more and more, my question is have garagegames thought about contacting Alias to see if a custom version of the PLE would be possible for Torque. They may be more receptive than Discreet were with Gmax since they are not the leader in the gaming world.
About the author
#2
My main point was that with alias eager to get a slice of the games industry, supporting a community like garagegames with a customised version of PLE setup to allow dts import/export would be beneficial to both parties. Even if there was a price attached for a license i'm sure people would jump at paying $50 for a cut down working version of Maya.
08/31/2002 (11:22 am)
The problem with the PLE is there is from what i remember no ability to write plugins for it as there is no API (plus the god awful watermark which i'm sure will be out of the UT2k3 version). PLE saves in it's own file format (.mp) which is incompatible with the standard .ma and .mb. There has been talk of an exporter for maya but nothing has come of those yet.My main point was that with alias eager to get a slice of the games industry, supporting a community like garagegames with a customised version of PLE setup to allow dts import/export would be beneficial to both parties. Even if there was a price attached for a license i'm sure people would jump at paying $50 for a cut down working version of Maya.
#3
Maya PLE already is free, so I'm kind of lost to why this really is such a big deal. There will still be a watermark, but the artist says: "The watermark will still be small enough for mod work and portfolios".
A good step, since I'm tired of seeing games have mod tools based around 3d Studio when it's clear almost any modder who's using it is well... not using it legally.
Right...
"Don't pirate our games, but pirate to make our games last longer."
Good job DE and Epic. Hopefully others will follow suit.
08/31/2002 (11:53 am)
One of Digital Extremes' artists leaked this about six weeks back after I argued they were supporting pirating by not supporting a low-cost model package, which was good to hear. Since then, I've looked into the PLE package.Maya PLE already is free, so I'm kind of lost to why this really is such a big deal. There will still be a watermark, but the artist says: "The watermark will still be small enough for mod work and portfolios".
A good step, since I'm tired of seeing games have mod tools based around 3d Studio when it's clear almost any modder who's using it is well... not using it legally.
Right...
"Don't pirate our games, but pirate to make our games last longer."
Good job DE and Epic. Hopefully others will follow suit.
#4
The problem with the watermark in PLE was the godawful one that covered all the viewports when you were trying to work. There was mention of plans to remove that but i don't know if anything came of it. They can have as many watermarks on renders as they want :)
I'm just glad games are coming out that support Maya at all, means the last few years of learning this won't be an entire waste :)
Matt if you have a link to that leak i'd be interested in reading it.
08/31/2002 (12:02 pm)
As i said the big deal about this version of the PLE is that it has a plugin that will actually export something of content unlike the standard PLE which saves in it's own file format and that is it.The problem with the watermark in PLE was the godawful one that covered all the viewports when you were trying to work. There was mention of plans to remove that but i don't know if anything came of it. They can have as many watermarks on renders as they want :)
I'm just glad games are coming out that support Maya at all, means the last few years of learning this won't be an entire waste :)
Matt if you have a link to that leak i'd be interested in reading it.
#5
Epic have essentially raised their middle finger at discreet and the $10k license fee for developing a gmax plugin. And Alias|Wavefront must be loving this - I wonder how open they'd be to a Torque plugin for PLE?
Btw, the watermark on the viewports in PLE *is* annoying, but your eyes get used to it. You'll just go around the real world thinking it's branded by Alias|Wavefront.
08/31/2002 (10:22 pm)
Ah, glad I'm not the only one who thought it was a big deal..Epic have essentially raised their middle finger at discreet and the $10k license fee for developing a gmax plugin. And Alias|Wavefront must be loving this - I wonder how open they'd be to a Torque plugin for PLE?
Btw, the watermark on the viewports in PLE *is* annoying, but your eyes get used to it. You'll just go around the real world thinking it's branded by Alias|Wavefront.
#6
Thread here, on Polycount: http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~polycount/ubb/Forum1/HTML/006636.html?00383
The posts I referred to is on pages one and two, posted by a very informative guy from Epic named "eepers". Very neat to see someone follow such a long and informal Q&A session.
I got my ass kicked around Polycount from some of the "vets" because I "rained on their parade" since I started asking about Unreal and piracy relating to mod development instead of asking the guy who started the thread about how special he is for going to Epic on a trip.
If you go there, just don't ever challenge any of the guys who have moderator status in the forums or brag about their skills. They'll be very grumpy and call you names. Bad names.
Rogue13 is about as cool as they come, and there is a lot of talent over there. It's just tough to get past a lot of the immaturity and harsh exteriors. If you plan on going there looking for some artists, be ready for a bumpy ride. Of course, it's probably the best one-stop place for 3d modeling talent on the 'net so the effort will probably be worth it.
Oh, and never mention software piracy around there. It'll only make you feel depressed if you own legit copies of the programs.
09/01/2002 (12:30 am)
The entire thread is a great read if you ever plan on working with the Unreal 2003 engine, with quite a few interesting details and as far as I know, not anywhere else on the 'net at the moment. Keep in mind, most of the people asking questions are modelers or have no clue whatsoever about game engines. So expect for some "I know it all" statements that well... make little sense.Thread here, on Polycount: http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~polycount/ubb/Forum1/HTML/006636.html?00383
The posts I referred to is on pages one and two, posted by a very informative guy from Epic named "eepers". Very neat to see someone follow such a long and informal Q&A session.
I got my ass kicked around Polycount from some of the "vets" because I "rained on their parade" since I started asking about Unreal and piracy relating to mod development instead of asking the guy who started the thread about how special he is for going to Epic on a trip.
If you go there, just don't ever challenge any of the guys who have moderator status in the forums or brag about their skills. They'll be very grumpy and call you names. Bad names.
Rogue13 is about as cool as they come, and there is a lot of talent over there. It's just tough to get past a lot of the immaturity and harsh exteriors. If you plan on going there looking for some artists, be ready for a bumpy ride. Of course, it's probably the best one-stop place for 3d modeling talent on the 'net so the effort will probably be worth it.
Oh, and never mention software piracy around there. It'll only make you feel depressed if you own legit copies of the programs.
#7
What i've come out of it with is that they have the ability to export static mesh data from Max, LW and Maya yet for some reason they have chosen Maya.
This suggests one of three things to me about the deal with alias:
a) It cost them a lot less than it would to create a Gmax pack.
b) It costs them nothing at all (ie AW gave them PLE for free).
c) They profited from it, ie AW paid them to include it in there.
A is the most likely option but knowing AWs' current drive to get into the games sector (the recent price drop was one sign of this) B is not too far fetched. And C is still in the realms of possibility, this is very good advertising for a program that is generally viewed as a Movie soloution.
You have to remember there must have been a decent amount of collaboration since there is no API available for PLE. If I had paid to use PLE for my product the first thing I would have made sure of is that the watermark in the viewports was gone.
Now the real question is would they be willing to knock up a decent deal for GarageGames knowing that supporting somewhere like this would make them look better than Discreet. I'm sure it would be worth the time it takes to fire off the email for gg guys to enquire.
*If i stopped making sense anywhere there it's because i'm hungry :)*
09/01/2002 (1:52 am)
Well that took me a while to read :)What i've come out of it with is that they have the ability to export static mesh data from Max, LW and Maya yet for some reason they have chosen Maya.
This suggests one of three things to me about the deal with alias:
a) It cost them a lot less than it would to create a Gmax pack.
b) It costs them nothing at all (ie AW gave them PLE for free).
c) They profited from it, ie AW paid them to include it in there.
A is the most likely option but knowing AWs' current drive to get into the games sector (the recent price drop was one sign of this) B is not too far fetched. And C is still in the realms of possibility, this is very good advertising for a program that is generally viewed as a Movie soloution.
You have to remember there must have been a decent amount of collaboration since there is no API available for PLE. If I had paid to use PLE for my product the first thing I would have made sure of is that the watermark in the viewports was gone.
Now the real question is would they be willing to knock up a decent deal for GarageGames knowing that supporting somewhere like this would make them look better than Discreet. I'm sure it would be worth the time it takes to fire off the email for gg guys to enquire.
*If i stopped making sense anywhere there it's because i'm hungry :)*
#8
Phil.
09/01/2002 (2:14 am)
FYI, most of the first developers who were making game packs for MAX didnt actually pay the license fee. Phil.
#9
As for someone making a PLE plugin for Torque, you have already said the answer that you know. It ain't gonna happen, because a) plugins are not allowed in PLE (although in this cause they probably made a large ELUA change, something that no one has even looked at yet), b) you cannot use the work in a commercial production, and c) no one has got one working for regular Maya yet.
Yes this is a cool announcement I do not deny that, is it the second coming of something, hell no. It's no bigger than gMax is (probably less actually), but at the end of the day it is still a tool and no matter what marketing BS tells you, a tool does not create good work on it's own.
Logan
09/01/2002 (10:28 am)
Actually Steve considering the financial crapper that SGI (and thus Alias Wavefront) is in, I would say that they either gave it for free to Epic just to get their name out there or they paid Epic alot of money to include it (something that is not out of the ordinary for other companies to do if they want their stuff included with another product).As for someone making a PLE plugin for Torque, you have already said the answer that you know. It ain't gonna happen, because a) plugins are not allowed in PLE (although in this cause they probably made a large ELUA change, something that no one has even looked at yet), b) you cannot use the work in a commercial production, and c) no one has got one working for regular Maya yet.
Yes this is a cool announcement I do not deny that, is it the second coming of something, hell no. It's no bigger than gMax is (probably less actually), but at the end of the day it is still a tool and no matter what marketing BS tells you, a tool does not create good work on it's own.
Logan
Torque Owner Greg Findlay
The only difference between the normal version and the UT2K3 version is the plugin. Something similar could be made for Torque by the community. If someone would be so inclined I'm sure there are people here who would appreciate it.
I think there is a Maya plugin in the works around here somewhere. Haven't heard anything about it in a while though.
Alc