Run-Time, In-Game Object Manipulation(s)
by Ronnie · in Technical Issues · 11/05/2007 (10:12 am) · 30 replies
Hello everyone,
I was wondering about the following:
------------------------------------------------------------
1. VB6-Style Run-Time Object Manipulation(s)
------------------------------------------------------------
In VB6, I could have a "root" TextBox object,
for example, reside on a form.
Then, I could duplicate it, in code, at runtime,
and create a few dozen such TextBoxes,
then position them anywhere I'd like and
even assign various other values to their
properties, such as text, color, size, etc.
Can I do the same with TGE/TGEA's
in-game object(s) ?
------------------------------------------------------------
2. Run-Time Object Creation
------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure is this is the way it's done, but
could I "make up" or "build up" an object,
say a building or a character, in code (or script),
during run-time ?
For example, could I build a soldier character
at some point, have it walk in to a building,
then place a weapon object in the soldier's
hands, then have it walk out of the building,
of course with that weapon attached ?
Another example: let's say I were to build
a car object. Then I build a driver character.
Finally, I want to have the driver enter the car,
and the car drive some place. Is that possible ?
------------------------------------------------------------
3. Precision Drawing & Motion
------------------------------------------------------------
How can I have an elevator shaft appear (or drawn)
within a building, then an elevator object go up and
down within it ?
The thing is, that I may want to add some sort
of a "carrying cable object(s)" to be attached
to the top of the elevator, so that the whole
elevator thing would appear is if its motion
is some how guided by its cables.
Another example may be a
mountain cableway, running from
a valley to a mountain, where
cable cars are suspended on it
and move along.
Obviously, to make this look realistic,
I would want to make sure it's stretched
out straight between 2 points.
...So how do I achieve both:
(a) Drawing precisely ?
(b) Have an object follow along ?
Thanks much,
Ronnie
I was wondering about the following:
------------------------------------------------------------
1. VB6-Style Run-Time Object Manipulation(s)
------------------------------------------------------------
In VB6, I could have a "root" TextBox object,
for example, reside on a form.
Then, I could duplicate it, in code, at runtime,
and create a few dozen such TextBoxes,
then position them anywhere I'd like and
even assign various other values to their
properties, such as text, color, size, etc.
Can I do the same with TGE/TGEA's
in-game object(s) ?
------------------------------------------------------------
2. Run-Time Object Creation
------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure is this is the way it's done, but
could I "make up" or "build up" an object,
say a building or a character, in code (or script),
during run-time ?
For example, could I build a soldier character
at some point, have it walk in to a building,
then place a weapon object in the soldier's
hands, then have it walk out of the building,
of course with that weapon attached ?
Another example: let's say I were to build
a car object. Then I build a driver character.
Finally, I want to have the driver enter the car,
and the car drive some place. Is that possible ?
------------------------------------------------------------
3. Precision Drawing & Motion
------------------------------------------------------------
How can I have an elevator shaft appear (or drawn)
within a building, then an elevator object go up and
down within it ?
The thing is, that I may want to add some sort
of a "carrying cable object(s)" to be attached
to the top of the elevator, so that the whole
elevator thing would appear is if its motion
is some how guided by its cables.
Another example may be a
mountain cableway, running from
a valley to a mountain, where
cable cars are suspended on it
and move along.
Obviously, to make this look realistic,
I would want to make sure it's stretched
out straight between 2 points.
...So how do I achieve both:
(a) Drawing precisely ?
(b) Have an object follow along ?
Thanks much,
Ronnie
About the author
#22
I must confess though : somewhere above, Kent Butler has specified
the tools plus total amount to spend before one can
begin work (==game making) on their own.
Also, Mike Rowley has recommended "DeleD" software -- which
I've given a try (looked nice, too).
David Blake : TDN was, indeed, accessible at some sections...
Wonders seemingly never cease! :-)
But still, I feel like I'm in a cloud of a zillion unfamilliar jargon,
3D-related stuff, and specifically -- how (in the world) am I
to start?
I mean, I've installed TGE v1.4.2 (or v1.5.2), then DeleD LITE,
then Blender v2.45, then tried to import / export ready models
amongst the three -- withou much success, I must say.
(And I know that DeleD has a Torque exporter plugin).
It may be a matter of a learning curve, but what if I were
to start a 3D-game world from scratch? In other words,
I would NOT want (necessarilly) to build upon an existing
sample game that ships along (such as that buggie race car
or the FPS example), but instead -- to do the following:
1.) Build a whole new urban environment, to look like
a section of Manhattan, for example?
2.) Use that city section as a world for, say, a GTA-style game?
3.) Make buildings, roads, pavements, possibly trees, and all sorts of
precision-dependent objects?
4.) Stretch or extend the "neighborhood" or city-block area to a
great distance -- possibly with real-time (or design-time) replication
of already-available and drawn buildings, so that the player thinks
they can drive through different parts of town?
5.) Use EASY mouse navigation and KEYBOARD shortcuts to accomplish
tasks faster -- once I've acquired enough tool proficiency?
I mean, I have looked at the Mission Editor (or was it World Editor?), and it seemed
to have been a bit limited in features -- perhaps because it was a demo?
(I know that as Kent Butler has mentioned above, the demo is actually the real deal
but w/o the source code).
Bottom line is this:
A.) I want to be able to make a whole new 3D world, along with a whole
bunch of any 3D objects (people, buildings, car parts, etc), and have
everything tied up together as a playable 3D game.
B.) I want to be able to do everything by myself -- however long it
may take -- of course, if I can buy / download pre-made content
that might help.
C.) I want to AVOID spending thousands of dollars :-)
So, would having purchased tools like TGE v1.4.2 (or v1.5.2),
along with other tools such as DeleD and Blender, yet
without TGEA (Advanced Edition) -- suffice to achieve my above goals?
Thanks for any tips,
Ronnie
01/06/2008 (7:51 am)
OK.I must confess though : somewhere above, Kent Butler has specified
the tools plus total amount to spend before one can
begin work (==game making) on their own.
Also, Mike Rowley has recommended "DeleD" software -- which
I've given a try (looked nice, too).
David Blake : TDN was, indeed, accessible at some sections...
Wonders seemingly never cease! :-)
But still, I feel like I'm in a cloud of a zillion unfamilliar jargon,
3D-related stuff, and specifically -- how (in the world) am I
to start?
I mean, I've installed TGE v1.4.2 (or v1.5.2), then DeleD LITE,
then Blender v2.45, then tried to import / export ready models
amongst the three -- withou much success, I must say.
(And I know that DeleD has a Torque exporter plugin).
It may be a matter of a learning curve, but what if I were
to start a 3D-game world from scratch? In other words,
I would NOT want (necessarilly) to build upon an existing
sample game that ships along (such as that buggie race car
or the FPS example), but instead -- to do the following:
1.) Build a whole new urban environment, to look like
a section of Manhattan, for example?
2.) Use that city section as a world for, say, a GTA-style game?
3.) Make buildings, roads, pavements, possibly trees, and all sorts of
precision-dependent objects?
4.) Stretch or extend the "neighborhood" or city-block area to a
great distance -- possibly with real-time (or design-time) replication
of already-available and drawn buildings, so that the player thinks
they can drive through different parts of town?
5.) Use EASY mouse navigation and KEYBOARD shortcuts to accomplish
tasks faster -- once I've acquired enough tool proficiency?
I mean, I have looked at the Mission Editor (or was it World Editor?), and it seemed
to have been a bit limited in features -- perhaps because it was a demo?
(I know that as Kent Butler has mentioned above, the demo is actually the real deal
but w/o the source code).
Bottom line is this:
A.) I want to be able to make a whole new 3D world, along with a whole
bunch of any 3D objects (people, buildings, car parts, etc), and have
everything tied up together as a playable 3D game.
B.) I want to be able to do everything by myself -- however long it
may take -- of course, if I can buy / download pre-made content
that might help.
C.) I want to AVOID spending thousands of dollars :-)
So, would having purchased tools like TGE v1.4.2 (or v1.5.2),
along with other tools such as DeleD and Blender, yet
without TGEA (Advanced Edition) -- suffice to achieve my above goals?
Thanks for any tips,
Ronnie
#23
No (additional) confusion inteded :-)
01/06/2008 (7:55 am)
The above post seem to have been sent in twice.No (additional) confusion inteded :-)
#24
It is all learning curve. You don't jump to experimental astrophysics without learning the concept of addition. Right now you are learning the concept of addition, but want to be a star astrophysicist.
Would you be able to go into these buildings? If so, then you'll have a ton of work to do to model them. Here's an example. Take Blender or DeleD and create a newsstand. Simple, right? Four walls and a sloped roof with a counter area. But you also need to create the newspaper racks, the piles of papers, texture the pages, and then once you have a nice looking stand, you should probably learn a bit of animation to texture the guy selling papers.
That's a far cry from a huge city, but it is the starting details of a huge city. A bus pickup or police kiosk might be other good, reusable points as well.
If the players can go into the buildings, then you're going to have to make a million of these little details. And right now, we're not even talking about geling them together so that players can do something with them (knock over a stack of papers, shoot the salesman, implement pathfinding algorithms so that the salesman can chase you when you steal a paper, etc.
Start small and break even the largest project into small, digestible chunks. Otherwise you will always be overwhelmed and wondering where to begin. Focus and develop that section.
Most likely, you will want to change your editor bindings to work with your workflow. But I have no idea what your workflow is.
What you see is what you get. It was designed for the quick and easy placement of mission items, which it works pretty well at. You can add paths, nodes, assets, etc. It would be nice if it were on the level of Unity's editor.
This is entirely possible with Torque, Unity, or pretty much any 3D game engine.
It will take a very long time and be a huge investment, but you can definitely do it yourself if you sit down and learn the basics nad build.
Right now, use the demo and tutorial.base as your starting point. Go through the getting started tutorial to get a feel for the workflow. When you're ready to make your own content, then get fist-deep into Blender and learn it well. Learn how to use the exporter and get detailed objects into your world. Next, learn to use Constructor to create interiors (or the buildings if you need to enter them). Start very simple and work your way up.
01/06/2008 (10:25 am)
Quote:It may be a matter of a learning curve, but what if I were
to start a 3D-game world from scratch? In other words,
I would NOT want (necessarilly) to build upon an existing
sample game that ships along (such as that buggie race car
or the FPS example), but instead -- to do the following:
It is all learning curve. You don't jump to experimental astrophysics without learning the concept of addition. Right now you are learning the concept of addition, but want to be a star astrophysicist.
Quote:1.) Build a whole new urban environment, to look like
a section of Manhattan, for example?
Would you be able to go into these buildings? If so, then you'll have a ton of work to do to model them. Here's an example. Take Blender or DeleD and create a newsstand. Simple, right? Four walls and a sloped roof with a counter area. But you also need to create the newspaper racks, the piles of papers, texture the pages, and then once you have a nice looking stand, you should probably learn a bit of animation to texture the guy selling papers.
That's a far cry from a huge city, but it is the starting details of a huge city. A bus pickup or police kiosk might be other good, reusable points as well.
If the players can go into the buildings, then you're going to have to make a million of these little details. And right now, we're not even talking about geling them together so that players can do something with them (knock over a stack of papers, shoot the salesman, implement pathfinding algorithms so that the salesman can chase you when you steal a paper, etc.
Start small and break even the largest project into small, digestible chunks. Otherwise you will always be overwhelmed and wondering where to begin. Focus and develop that section.
Quote:2.) Use that city section as a world for, say, a GTA-style game?If you want huge levels to stream ala GTA, you will have to make some wide-sweeping changes to the source since Torque is centered around a level/mission structure. Most engines are, from Unity to BeyondVirtual to Lawmaker. It's the standard setup. Making paged content is a rather huge and non-standard call when it comes to engine tech. I believe there are some plugins in OGRE that assist with this, but that won't help on the Torque front much.
Quote:3.) Make buildings, roads, pavements, possibly trees, and all sorts ofNot sure what you mean by precision dependent objects. You can do all of those things now with Blender, Constructor, and the TGE demo for free.
precision-dependent objects?
Quote:4.) Stretch or extend the "neighborhood" or city-block area to aYou will be limited by the terrain size and mission size to a point (things like lighting on repeating portions can cause some strange artifacting). But if you used mission switching for areas, and loaded new missions for every area, you could reuse art assets as much as you like.
great distance -- possibly with real-time (or design-time) replication
of already-available and drawn buildings, so that the player thinks
they can drive through different parts of town?
Quote:5.) Use EASY mouse navigation and KEYBOARD shortcuts to accomplish
tasks faster -- once I've acquired enough tool proficiency?
Most likely, you will want to change your editor bindings to work with your workflow. But I have no idea what your workflow is.
Quote:I mean, I have looked at the Mission Editor (or was it World Editor?), and it seemed
to have been a bit limited in features -- perhaps because it was a demo?
(I know that as Kent Butler has mentioned above, the demo is actually the real deal
but w/o the source code).
What you see is what you get. It was designed for the quick and easy placement of mission items, which it works pretty well at. You can add paths, nodes, assets, etc. It would be nice if it were on the level of Unity's editor.
Quote:Bottom line is this:
A.) I want to be able to make a whole new 3D world, along with a whole
bunch of any 3D objects (people, buildings, car parts, etc), and have
everything tied up together as a playable 3D game.
This is entirely possible with Torque, Unity, or pretty much any 3D game engine.
Quote:B.) I want to be able to do everything by myself -- however long it
may take -- of course, if I can buy / download pre-made content
that might help.
It will take a very long time and be a huge investment, but you can definitely do it yourself if you sit down and learn the basics nad build.
Quote:C.) I want to AVOID spending thousands of dollars :-)
So, would having purchased tools like TGE v1.4.2 (or v1.5.2),
along with other tools such as DeleD and Blender, yet
without TGEA (Advanced Edition) -- suffice to achieve my above goals?
Right now, use the demo and tutorial.base as your starting point. Go through the getting started tutorial to get a feel for the workflow. When you're ready to make your own content, then get fist-deep into Blender and learn it well. Learn how to use the exporter and get detailed objects into your world. Next, learn to use Constructor to create interiors (or the buildings if you need to enter them). Start very simple and work your way up.
#25
Oh David, David, David !!!
If you will please excuse me,
but when you say,
It sounds like star astrophysics is beyond reach !!!
However, to me -- that's the whole idea : that's exactly where I'm aiming !!!
The only question is, can I do this with the specified (see above) conditions,
or, briefly, with TGE + Blender + DeleD + without having to sell my house ?
David my man,
have a great day.
Yours Truly,
Ronnie.
01/08/2008 (10:18 am)
@David BlakeOh David, David, David !!!
If you will please excuse me,
but when you say,
Quote:
Right now you are learning the concept of addition, but want to be a star astrophysicist.
It sounds like star astrophysics is beyond reach !!!
However, to me -- that's the whole idea : that's exactly where I'm aiming !!!
The only question is, can I do this with the specified (see above) conditions,
or, briefly, with TGE + Blender + DeleD + without having to sell my house ?
David my man,
have a great day.
Yours Truly,
Ronnie.
#26
01/08/2008 (10:46 am)
Of course you have to have an end goal, but you have a huge amount of legwork and learning curve to go from basic addition to becoming a star astrophysicist.
#27
But the question remains:
Is star astrophysics ACHIEVABLE with
TGE + Blender + Constructor / DeleD,
and those only ?
BTW, I'm NOT afraid of hard work :-)
If it takes a learning curve, ok by me;
If it takes sitting for hours / days / weeks
and studying the tools, ok by me;
If it takes experimenting with the engine
for a few weeks / months, ok by me;
But, Heaven help us, if it all should prove
worth my while and allow me to make
3D worlds with 3D buildings in it for my
players to enter and play in -- ok by me !
Does that make sense ?
01/09/2008 (9:39 am)
OK.But the question remains:
Is star astrophysics ACHIEVABLE with
TGE + Blender + Constructor / DeleD,
and those only ?
BTW, I'm NOT afraid of hard work :-)
If it takes a learning curve, ok by me;
If it takes sitting for hours / days / weeks
and studying the tools, ok by me;
If it takes experimenting with the engine
for a few weeks / months, ok by me;
But, Heaven help us, if it all should prove
worth my while and allow me to make
3D worlds with 3D buildings in it for my
players to enter and play in -- ok by me !
Does that make sense ?
#28
01/09/2008 (9:47 am)
Yup. It is achievable. Others have done it with those tools and Torque or other engines.
Torque Owner Ronnie
I must confess though : somewhere above, Kent Butler has specified
the tools plus total amount to spend before one can
begin work (==game making) on their own.
Also, Mike Rowley has recommended "DeleD" software -- which
I've given a try (looked nice, too).
David Blake : TDN was, indeed, accessible at some sections...
Wonders seemingly never cease! :-)
But still, I feel like I'm in a cloud of a zillion unfamilliar jargon,
3D-related stuff, and specifically -- how (in the world) am I
to start?
I mean, I've installed TGE v1.4.2 (or v1.5.2), then DeleD LITE,
then Blender v2.45, then tried to import / export ready models
amongst the three -- withou much success, I must say.
(And I know that DeleD has a Torque exporter plugin).
It may be a matter of a learning curve, but what if I were
to start a 3D-game world from scratch? In other words,
I would NOT want (necessarilly) to build upon an existing
sample game that ships along (such as that buggie race car
or the FPS example), but instead -- to do the following:
1.) Build a whole new urban environment, to look like
a section of Manhattan, for example?
2.) Use that city section as a world for, say, a GTA-style game?
3.) Make buildings, roads, pavements, possibly trees, and all sorts of
precision-dependent objects?
4.) Stretch or extend the "neighborhood" or city-block area to a
great distance -- possibly with real-time (or design-time) replication
of already-available and drawn buildings, so that the player thinks
they can drive through different parts of town?
5.) Use EASY mouse navigation and KEYBOARD shortcuts to accomplish
tasks faster -- once I've acquired enough tool proficiency?
I mean, I have looked at the Mission Editor (or was it World Editor?), and it seemed
to have been a bit limited in features -- perhaps because it was a demo?
(I know that as Kent Butler has mentioned above, the demo is actually the real deal
but w/o the source code).
Bottom line is this:
A.) I want to be able to make a whole new 3D world, along with a whole
bunch of any 3D objects (people, buildings, car parts, etc), and have
everything tied up together as a playable 3D game.
B.) I want to be able to do everything by myself -- however long it
may take -- of course, if I can buy / download pre-made content
that might help.
C.) I want to AVOID spending thousands of dollars :-)
So, would having purchased tools like TGE v1.4.2 (or v1.5.2),
along with other tools such as DeleD and Blender, yet
without TGEA (Advanced Edition) -- suffice to achieve my above goals?
Thanks for any tips,
Ronnie