Instant Action....and so it begins
by Derek Smart · in General Discussion · 10/11/2007 (10:00 am) · 114 replies
I just got a news bulletin which didn't leave me surprised in any way, shape or form.
No offense to anybody, but yes, what you are reading from the above bulletin is exactly what I've been saying all along and which most of you (too scared to utter a word) haven't. That being...
Whats old is new again (Or some nonsense like that) meaning that anyone hoping to see a new type of games cropping up on IA, other than the same style of games already found here, is going to be disappointed.
Yes Virginia, its just GG, with new paint (which looks great btw!!), a little bit more money and whatnot. Another player in the already crowded casual games market.
My guess is they'll lose money hand over fist and everything will head South once the bean counters at IAC start staring suspiciously at the bottomline.
.....or maybe they have access to another type of casual gamer waiting to be set free of the bonds of the existing crop.
However, Torque 2, does sound interesting. We'll see how much of a mess and disparity all these various Torque versions creates.
Bye!
No offense to anybody, but yes, what you are reading from the above bulletin is exactly what I've been saying all along and which most of you (too scared to utter a word) haven't. That being...
Whats old is new again (Or some nonsense like that) meaning that anyone hoping to see a new type of games cropping up on IA, other than the same style of games already found here, is going to be disappointed.
Yes Virginia, its just GG, with new paint (which looks great btw!!), a little bit more money and whatnot. Another player in the already crowded casual games market.
My guess is they'll lose money hand over fist and everything will head South once the bean counters at IAC start staring suspiciously at the bottomline.
.....or maybe they have access to another type of casual gamer waiting to be set free of the bonds of the existing crop.
However, Torque 2, does sound interesting. We'll see how much of a mess and disparity all these various Torque versions creates.
Bye!
#62
- Requires no special skill other than using arrow keys to control a ball from going down-hill until it reaches the destination.
- That's it.
Being casual means something that can be enjoyed for a while without using any special skill. Even if a game happens to come by which requires some amazing amount of skill to play, good luck selling that to the casual crowd.. and then selling it to the non-casual gamers with shitty graphics. Also, like Rubin said, casual has nothing to do with being SP/MP or being 2D/3D.. that's just ridiculous. If that was the case 3D pacman with 2 player co-op would be considered a mainstream game.
.. and banning Derek makes no sense as well esp. since he is posting in a thread he himself created, unlike last time when his posts were being deleted from the thread posted by GG on IAC (what the GG mods said the reason for deleting posts was there).
10/13/2007 (1:04 pm)
Marble Blast Ultra is 'definitely' a casual game. here's why:- Requires no special skill other than using arrow keys to control a ball from going down-hill until it reaches the destination.
- That's it.
Being casual means something that can be enjoyed for a while without using any special skill. Even if a game happens to come by which requires some amazing amount of skill to play, good luck selling that to the casual crowd.. and then selling it to the non-casual gamers with shitty graphics. Also, like Rubin said, casual has nothing to do with being SP/MP or being 2D/3D.. that's just ridiculous. If that was the case 3D pacman with 2 player co-op would be considered a mainstream game.
.. and banning Derek makes no sense as well esp. since he is posting in a thread he himself created, unlike last time when his posts were being deleted from the thread posted by GG on IAC (what the GG mods said the reason for deleting posts was there).
#63
MBU isn't Hexic and it's not Halo. So let's not go around saying it's one or the other ;)
10/13/2007 (1:19 pm)
There's definitely a spectrum between casual and core. I think that in many ways MB doesn't fit the casual footprint. MB definitely takes more core skills to be average at than, say, any match-three game. Camera control and movement relative to that is a core game mechanic. Physics are usually a core game mechanic.MBU isn't Hexic and it's not Halo. So let's not go around saying it's one or the other ;)
#64
Using your logic, I could call every game casual. Here, let me try. "Hey, Gears of War is casual. All you have to do in that game is use the arrow keys to control a person and hit the mouse every once in awhile at things that move."
And if you want to argue that MBU doesn't require any skill, I've got a lot of YouTube links that would clearly disagree with you.
It's funny though. I remember arguing about 'skill' in computer games 8+ years ago. Back then, there wasn't really such a thing as casual versus hardcore, and people who didn't play games would say there was zero skilled involved and was a waste of time and resources. It is interesting how things, people, and perceptions change over time.
My point is, nothing is completely black and white. There is evidence throughout history that shows this.
10/13/2007 (1:48 pm)
Quote:
Marble Blast Ultra is 'definitely' a casual game. here's why:
- Requires no special skill other than using arrow keys to control a ball from going down-hill until it reaches the destination.
- That's it.
Using your logic, I could call every game casual. Here, let me try. "Hey, Gears of War is casual. All you have to do in that game is use the arrow keys to control a person and hit the mouse every once in awhile at things that move."
And if you want to argue that MBU doesn't require any skill, I've got a lot of YouTube links that would clearly disagree with you.
It's funny though. I remember arguing about 'skill' in computer games 8+ years ago. Back then, there wasn't really such a thing as casual versus hardcore, and people who didn't play games would say there was zero skilled involved and was a waste of time and resources. It is interesting how things, people, and perceptions change over time.
My point is, nothing is completely black and white. There is evidence throughout history that shows this.
#65
Nice.
BTW, my 'logic' was just basically summarising the whole game.. which isn't made for so called 'hardcore gamers'. Gameplay in casual games is way different than AAA titles out there.
10/13/2007 (1:59 pm)
^ Did you just compare a third person shooter where you actually have to move, dodge, aim and shoot at moving targets and actually worry about surviving with a game where you have to control a freakin ball and worry about not falling off the edge or getting that glowing powerup in the sky?Nice.
BTW, my 'logic' was just basically summarising the whole game.. which isn't made for so called 'hardcore gamers'. Gameplay in casual games is way different than AAA titles out there.
#66
I think it's funny to see all of the different views of what makes a casual game. Obviously, there are many different ideas and viewpoints. To me (my viewpoint), a casual game is the antithesis, or complete opposite, of a hard-core game. That is, it defines a style of game which is accessible to someone who is not a mainstream gamer. Casual does not necessarily mean mindless, either. There are plenty of strategy and thinking casual games out there. One of my all-time favorites is Fashion Cents. Though the screenshots may say one thing, the gameplay is strategic.
Even the ever popular Sudoku I consider to be a casual puzzle game, but it certainly requires a good level of thinking.
I suppose, by what I am saying, I fall into the black/white category.
I disagree and agree. I agree everyone is interested in the technology and future. I disagree about the business strategy.
I do care about business strategy. My concern over IA is whether or not it is actually going to make money. I could care less what types of games are on it. My questions are things like:
1) What research has been done to know if there is a market for this?
2) Does research show there are gamers who are interested in something like this?
3) Does research show there are developers who are interested in implementing the IA API?
4) I'm confused if IA will be looking for big hit blockbusters or if the focus is on the Indie developer.
I feel IA has some good potential, but until we actually find out more, it is tough to gauge how it differs from what is currently out there, what unique abilities it has, and whether or not the unique features will draw people to the site.
10/13/2007 (2:07 pm)
There have been some really fascinating discussions on here, but I've been rather silent. I'm still in the "let's see how things pan out" mode.I think it's funny to see all of the different views of what makes a casual game. Obviously, there are many different ideas and viewpoints. To me (my viewpoint), a casual game is the antithesis, or complete opposite, of a hard-core game. That is, it defines a style of game which is accessible to someone who is not a mainstream gamer. Casual does not necessarily mean mindless, either. There are plenty of strategy and thinking casual games out there. One of my all-time favorites is Fashion Cents. Though the screenshots may say one thing, the gameplay is strategic.
Even the ever popular Sudoku I consider to be a casual puzzle game, but it certainly requires a good level of thinking.
I suppose, by what I am saying, I fall into the black/white category.
Quote:Derek Smart wrote: I quite agree, but nobody is asking about business strategies. Everyone (well at least those who know why they're here) is interested in the technologies and the future. Nobody gives a toss about business strategies. Why would we?
I disagree and agree. I agree everyone is interested in the technology and future. I disagree about the business strategy.
I do care about business strategy. My concern over IA is whether or not it is actually going to make money. I could care less what types of games are on it. My questions are things like:
1) What research has been done to know if there is a market for this?
2) Does research show there are gamers who are interested in something like this?
3) Does research show there are developers who are interested in implementing the IA API?
4) I'm confused if IA will be looking for big hit blockbusters or if the focus is on the Indie developer.
I feel IA has some good potential, but until we actually find out more, it is tough to gauge how it differs from what is currently out there, what unique abilities it has, and whether or not the unique features will draw people to the site.
#67
You missed my point. If you boil every game down to just the movement basics, like you did with MBU, than every game by that definition could be a casual game.
I find it interesting that for MBU, you list only arrow keys as any form of input from the user. But when listing a shooter, you list aiming, dodging, etc. This shows me you clearly haven't played MBU. Because there is more to that game than simply moving a marble down a hill.
But I'm not here to argue about MBU. I'm hear to argue about this so called definition of 'casual games' and 'hardcore games'. For every person you can find to call MBU a casual game, I can find one that calls it a hardcore game. I can find plenty of other games where this is the case.
This tells me something. It could be telling me that people don't really understand what a casual game or a hardcore game means. On the other hand, maybe it's really telling me that these kinds of labels are wrong in the first place.
10/13/2007 (2:24 pm)
Quote:
^ Did you just compare a third person shooter where you actually have to move, dodge, aim and shoot at moving targets and actually worry about surviving with a game where you have to control a freakin ball and worry about not falling off the edge or getting that glowing powerup in the sky?
Nice.
BTW, my 'logic' was just basically summarising the whole game.. which isn't made for so called 'hardcore gamers'. Gameplay in casual games is way different than AAA titles out there.
You missed my point. If you boil every game down to just the movement basics, like you did with MBU, than every game by that definition could be a casual game.
I find it interesting that for MBU, you list only arrow keys as any form of input from the user. But when listing a shooter, you list aiming, dodging, etc. This shows me you clearly haven't played MBU. Because there is more to that game than simply moving a marble down a hill.
But I'm not here to argue about MBU. I'm hear to argue about this so called definition of 'casual games' and 'hardcore games'. For every person you can find to call MBU a casual game, I can find one that calls it a hardcore game. I can find plenty of other games where this is the case.
This tells me something. It could be telling me that people don't really understand what a casual game or a hardcore game means. On the other hand, maybe it's really telling me that these kinds of labels are wrong in the first place.
#68
Thank you for proving beyond a reasonable doubt that you have never played MBU, particularly multiplayer.
The offense that you took at Robert's generalization of Gears of War is probably similar to the offense that MBU devotees (yes, they do exist) took at your generalization of said game (which was exactly the point that Robert was trying to make). IN MY OPINION, a good MBU multiplayer game is every bit as intense, satisfying, and skillful as a good Quake CTF match (and yes, I have extensive experience with both). I'm probably dating myself with that comparison (but THAT is kinda the point of InstantAction in the first place), and if FPS multiplayer matches have changed drastically in recent years, I apologize.
Now, does that make/not make it a 'casual' game? Who the hell cares? By our definition, it's not casual, and it's not hardcore... it's somewhere in between. Your opinion may be different, and that's perfectly fine. What's not fine is asserting your opinion as fact, as that is the kind of thing that makes people upset and incites flames.
If the casual/not casual debate is to continue, anyone participating should define what 'casual game' means to them before stating their opinion.
Carry on...
10/13/2007 (2:38 pm)
Quote:Marble Blast Ultra is 'definitely' a casual game. here's why:
- Requires no special skill other than using arrow keys to control a ball from going down-hill until it reaches the destination.
- That's it.
Thank you for proving beyond a reasonable doubt that you have never played MBU, particularly multiplayer.
The offense that you took at Robert's generalization of Gears of War is probably similar to the offense that MBU devotees (yes, they do exist) took at your generalization of said game (which was exactly the point that Robert was trying to make). IN MY OPINION, a good MBU multiplayer game is every bit as intense, satisfying, and skillful as a good Quake CTF match (and yes, I have extensive experience with both). I'm probably dating myself with that comparison (but THAT is kinda the point of InstantAction in the first place), and if FPS multiplayer matches have changed drastically in recent years, I apologize.
Now, does that make/not make it a 'casual' game? Who the hell cares? By our definition, it's not casual, and it's not hardcore... it's somewhere in between. Your opinion may be different, and that's perfectly fine. What's not fine is asserting your opinion as fact, as that is the kind of thing that makes people upset and incites flames.
If the casual/not casual debate is to continue, anyone participating should define what 'casual game' means to them before stating their opinion.
Carry on...
#69
1) Keeping the ball on the right track (movement keys).
2) Jumping.
I am sure there is something grand and eternal waiting for us in the later levels but I am not really interested in the game (I played the demo btw).
The way I see it, casual games are something you can play during a coffee break or and hour with or without buddies without worry about excruciating storylines, dialogues and level-ups. While the 'hardcore' (this label doesn't really make sense though) titles are something you would play alone at your home, spending time to level-up, clearing some vast outdoor FPS level using 'next-gen' over-blooming or simple be in a MMO world.
In the end, whatever label you use for your game it doesn't really make it automatically better or fun, you still need to work on that part.
10/13/2007 (2:47 pm)
Those 'movement basics' in MB are basically what the gameplay is made up of (so does the GOW experience.. but with more than just using arrow keys and jump button). Compared to GOW there are only 2 things you have to worry about here..1) Keeping the ball on the right track (movement keys).
2) Jumping.
I am sure there is something grand and eternal waiting for us in the later levels but I am not really interested in the game (I played the demo btw).
Quote:On the other hand, maybe it's really telling me that these kinds of labels are wrong in the first place.Sure they are. But that won't stop major game portals from categorizing these games under specific labels. I don't really see how these labels are bad though. I mean if 'Indie' label for developers can make them super cool and creative all of a sudden, 'casual' or 'hardcore' label should be there to tell the difference between dumb and REALLY dumb games.
The way I see it, casual games are something you can play during a coffee break or and hour with or without buddies without worry about excruciating storylines, dialogues and level-ups. While the 'hardcore' (this label doesn't really make sense though) titles are something you would play alone at your home, spending time to level-up, clearing some vast outdoor FPS level using 'next-gen' over-blooming or simple be in a MMO world.
In the end, whatever label you use for your game it doesn't really make it automatically better or fun, you still need to work on that part.
#70
What makes you think they are trying to ban you?
10/13/2007 (6:28 pm)
Quote:Just to let you folks know that it appears as if GG are actively trying to ban me from posting. Its anyone's guess why. But if I stop posting or disappear, its because I have been silenced. Not sure why it hasn't already happened, but my guess is that its probably because I have cookies turned on and I haven't cleared my browser since their last [failed] attempt at banning (for no plausible reason) me.I find it very hard to believe that GG could fail to ban you from their own forum if they decided to do so. Also, a cookie cannot prevent you from being banned unless there is a serious security flaw in GG's site.
What makes you think they are trying to ban you?
#71
1) Could be (or is) an arcade game
2) Is playable by people who can't play obvious hardcore games like GOW, Halo, HL2, etc. (i.e. they can't or don't want to figure out how to run and shoot at the same time).
Given my definition, Marble Blast is a casual game. Of course, my definition is somewhat lacking with regards to games like Civilization or Age of Empires which I consider non-casual games.
10/13/2007 (6:28 pm)
Well, for me a "casual game" is one that meets one of two criteria:1) Could be (or is) an arcade game
2) Is playable by people who can't play obvious hardcore games like GOW, Halo, HL2, etc. (i.e. they can't or don't want to figure out how to run and shoot at the same time).
Given my definition, Marble Blast is a casual game. Of course, my definition is somewhat lacking with regards to games like Civilization or Age of Empires which I consider non-casual games.
#72
1. Not sure I totally understand the question (specifically what you mean by platform versions). If you mean "as it relates to existing Torque Products", then I can help:
--Torque 2 is a "from the ground up" refactor of a previously developed R&D build that combines TGE, TGE-A, and TGB engine technology (not tools) into a single internal build (already completed). It is now being iteratively refactored over several cycles in the coming months to re-engineer the architecture for fully flexible modular systems, and component based object creation (aggregation instead of inheritance). In some cases, it draws directly on functionality already in existence in current products (script/code architecture, GFX and materials systems from TGE-A, and many other systems), and in some cases it is extensively re-worked and/or fresh systems and architecture (Components, modular/decoupled systems, SFX abstraction layer, etc.).
2. The underlying R&D code base has been in development for more than a year. Torque 2 active development began within the last 3 or so months (I'm not 100% sure the exact start date).
3. We have a few internal milestones (web infrastructure, some remaining business strategy decisions) before we are ready to announce a firm beta period, but it will be some form of a phased beta, with an invite only period, and then an expanded market beta period. More information will be available as soon as it is firm (we can't tell you what we don't know).
4. Sometime in 2008. Again, there are many internal strategy and planning decisions still to be made that affect any firm productization timelines or deadlines.
A quick follow-up here on transparent development, since it is apropos to the above question (or more directly, to responses I expect to my response): Transparent development means to us that we tell you things as soon as it makes good sense, and most importantly as they happen. There should be no question or thought in anyone's mind that Torque 2 is even close to being ready to make games with right now -- it's not, and won't be until release in 2008.
We are giving the public a window into our development process as it occurs--and that includes communicating designs, functionality progress, milestones and meeting of those milestones as they happen or are decided. Right now, we don't feel that our current forums architecture is capable of meeting the needs of this information flow, so we are actively working on building up our information infrastructure to meet the expected needs. Once that is complete, we'll have a much larger amount and frequency of information flow.
5. IA and Torque 2 are pretty much completely unrelated. You do not need to use any Torque products to make games for IA, but of course since one company is doing both Torque 2 and IA, it's reasonable to assume that Torque 2 would be even easier than other engines to work within IA. Technology wise however, they are unrelated in just about every way.
6. Not just one person, we have an entire business unit of (currently) 7 people who's primary responsibilities include documentation (reference, user, and learning), productization, licensing, pricing, and related requirements. This is separate from the engine and tools development teams, which of course also will play some part in documentation (specifically source code level documentation).
These types of questions are ones we are much less willing to answer, for what should be obvious reasons (if they are not obvious to you, think about competitors in the marketplace, business practices, and being part of a publicly traded company). However, I'll try to provide at least some information (that is already public) without stepping over any lines that would get me fired:
1) Enough that IAC wanted to invest in GG to grab a share of a market that IAC itself has stated: "We think this is an untapped $2 billion market today growing to $5 billion in three years," Barry Diller's Web Gaming Play
2) See above, but check out this quote from same article: "a market that, according to DFC Intelligence, is expected to swell from revenue of $3.4 billion in 2005 to more than $13 billion in 2011"
3) I think you mean "using the IA API", but I'm not sure--we're already implementing the IA API ourselves. Obviously Alex Seropian is interested enough to be one of the lead out developers, and there are several more that will be announced in the coming months as release dates get closer.
4) The focus of IA is on high production quality, visually appealing core games. Obviously everyone in this thread seems to have a different definition of "casual" and "hard core" games--we see a growing middle ground that has some of both the appeal and characteristics of each. A quote from Josh Williams:
10/13/2007 (6:38 pm)
Quote:
1. What exactly is the plan for Torque 2, as it relates to the existing platform versions?
2. How long has it been in development?
3. When is it expected to go into Beta?
4. When it is expected to be released to the masses?
5. How does it tie into IA and the publishing aspects therein?
6. Do you guys plan on actually hiring someone to do proper and complete docs for it?
1. Not sure I totally understand the question (specifically what you mean by platform versions). If you mean "as it relates to existing Torque Products", then I can help:
--Torque 2 is a "from the ground up" refactor of a previously developed R&D build that combines TGE, TGE-A, and TGB engine technology (not tools) into a single internal build (already completed). It is now being iteratively refactored over several cycles in the coming months to re-engineer the architecture for fully flexible modular systems, and component based object creation (aggregation instead of inheritance). In some cases, it draws directly on functionality already in existence in current products (script/code architecture, GFX and materials systems from TGE-A, and many other systems), and in some cases it is extensively re-worked and/or fresh systems and architecture (Components, modular/decoupled systems, SFX abstraction layer, etc.).
2. The underlying R&D code base has been in development for more than a year. Torque 2 active development began within the last 3 or so months (I'm not 100% sure the exact start date).
3. We have a few internal milestones (web infrastructure, some remaining business strategy decisions) before we are ready to announce a firm beta period, but it will be some form of a phased beta, with an invite only period, and then an expanded market beta period. More information will be available as soon as it is firm (we can't tell you what we don't know).
4. Sometime in 2008. Again, there are many internal strategy and planning decisions still to be made that affect any firm productization timelines or deadlines.
A quick follow-up here on transparent development, since it is apropos to the above question (or more directly, to responses I expect to my response): Transparent development means to us that we tell you things as soon as it makes good sense, and most importantly as they happen. There should be no question or thought in anyone's mind that Torque 2 is even close to being ready to make games with right now -- it's not, and won't be until release in 2008.
We are giving the public a window into our development process as it occurs--and that includes communicating designs, functionality progress, milestones and meeting of those milestones as they happen or are decided. Right now, we don't feel that our current forums architecture is capable of meeting the needs of this information flow, so we are actively working on building up our information infrastructure to meet the expected needs. Once that is complete, we'll have a much larger amount and frequency of information flow.
5. IA and Torque 2 are pretty much completely unrelated. You do not need to use any Torque products to make games for IA, but of course since one company is doing both Torque 2 and IA, it's reasonable to assume that Torque 2 would be even easier than other engines to work within IA. Technology wise however, they are unrelated in just about every way.
6. Not just one person, we have an entire business unit of (currently) 7 people who's primary responsibilities include documentation (reference, user, and learning), productization, licensing, pricing, and related requirements. This is separate from the engine and tools development teams, which of course also will play some part in documentation (specifically source code level documentation).
Quote:
do care about business strategy. My concern over IA is whether or not it is actually going to make money. I could care less what types of games are on it. My questions are things like:
1) What research has been done to know if there is a market for this?
2) Does research show there are gamers who are interested in something like this?
3) Does research show there are developers who are interested in implementing the IA API?
4) I'm confused if IA will be looking for big hit blockbusters or if the focus is on the Indie developer.
These types of questions are ones we are much less willing to answer, for what should be obvious reasons (if they are not obvious to you, think about competitors in the marketplace, business practices, and being part of a publicly traded company). However, I'll try to provide at least some information (that is already public) without stepping over any lines that would get me fired:
1) Enough that IAC wanted to invest in GG to grab a share of a market that IAC itself has stated: "We think this is an untapped $2 billion market today growing to $5 billion in three years," Barry Diller's Web Gaming Play
2) See above, but check out this quote from same article: "a market that, according to DFC Intelligence, is expected to swell from revenue of $3.4 billion in 2005 to more than $13 billion in 2011"
3) I think you mean "using the IA API", but I'm not sure--we're already implementing the IA API ourselves. Obviously Alex Seropian is interested enough to be one of the lead out developers, and there are several more that will be announced in the coming months as release dates get closer.
4) The focus of IA is on high production quality, visually appealing core games. Obviously everyone in this thread seems to have a different definition of "casual" and "hard core" games--we see a growing middle ground that has some of both the appeal and characteristics of each. A quote from Josh Williams:
Quote:Diller's IAC pulls the Trigger on Videogame Venture, with an additional quote from Barry Diller:
In a telephone interview, GarageGames Chief Executive Josh Williams said the 8-year-old bootstrapped company would develop some games itself, but also offer tools to independent publishers to create games for the new platform.
Unlike console games, whose budgets sometimes can rival that of a Hollywood movie, InstantAction games can be developed on a relative shoestring, he said.
"Our games are beginning in the sub $1 million range and up from there," Mr. Williams said. "Fifteen million (dollar) budgets are not something we're pursuing."
Quote:(same article)
Speaking at a Goldman Sachs conference in Manhattan, Mr. Diller said that the economic appeal of creating a videogame site lies partly in the network of users.
"Once this becomes a community, the community itself will be the power," he said. "The common platform will be in and of itself a powerful thing to have."
#73
If you, as a developer, spend less then six hundred thousand and/or it only takes a year or less to complete the game... then it's casual!
If a game cost more the six hundred thousand and/or takes more than a year to complete, it's hardcore.
Now the only real question to ask about IA is what the pricing structure will be like. Let's face it, there is always a market for more games, but who is going to want to pay 10 to 20 bucks per web browser game. However, if you pay a fixed price every month to play all the games then I can see IA doing very well.
10/13/2007 (6:44 pm)
Fear not, I have come to solve the debate between casual and hardcore games. If you, as a developer, spend less then six hundred thousand and/or it only takes a year or less to complete the game... then it's casual!
If a game cost more the six hundred thousand and/or takes more than a year to complete, it's hardcore.
Now the only real question to ask about IA is what the pricing structure will be like. Let's face it, there is always a market for more games, but who is going to want to pay 10 to 20 bucks per web browser game. However, if you pay a fixed price every month to play all the games then I can see IA doing very well.
#74
10/13/2007 (6:53 pm)
Quote:"Once this becomes a community, the community itself will be the power," he said. "The common platform will be in and of itself a powerful thing to have."This is already proven in several game sites and mmo games.
Quote:If you, as a developer, spend less then six hundred thousand and/or it only takes a year or less to complete the game... then it's casual!I'll never make a hard core game. :lol:
Quote:Now the only real question to ask about IA is what the pricing structure will be like. Let's face it, there is always a market for more games, but who is going to want to pay 10 to 20 bucks per web browser game. However, if you pay a fixed price every month to play all the games then I can see IA doing very well.True. Even with the monthly subscription price, it's going to be an uphill battle if the monthly fee is over $10.00 per month. People just don't want to pay that much.
#75
I know quite a few people (myself being one of them) that "can obviously play hardcore games like GOW, Halo, HL2, etc), but can't even begin to compete in Marble Blast Ultra--way too many controls, way too many combinatorial techniques (for example, being able to simultaneously and smoothly both move your camera with one stick and control the marble with the other to perfectly time power up uses to overcome obstacles or other players), and way too many "perfect timing" maneuvers for me to be able to compete at all.
10/13/2007 (6:54 pm)
Quote:
Well, for me a "casual game" is one that meets one of two criteria:
1) Could be (or is) an arcade game
2) Is playable by people who can't play obvious hardcore games like GOW, Halo, HL2, etc. (i.e. they can't or don't want to figure out how to run and shoot at the same time).
Given my definition, Marble Blast is a casual game. Of course, my definition is somewhat lacking with regards to games like Civilization or Age of Empires which I consider non-casual games.
I know quite a few people (myself being one of them) that "can obviously play hardcore games like GOW, Halo, HL2, etc), but can't even begin to compete in Marble Blast Ultra--way too many controls, way too many combinatorial techniques (for example, being able to simultaneously and smoothly both move your camera with one stick and control the marble with the other to perfectly time power up uses to overcome obstacles or other players), and way too many "perfect timing" maneuvers for me to be able to compete at all.
#76
10/13/2007 (6:56 pm)
Casual and Harcore games are not defined by production budget. That's rediculous. Games are categorized as Casual and Hardcore based on their targeted customers. Casual gamers and Hardcore gamers. Casual gamers play games as one of many hobbies or activities. Hardcore gamers don't just play games, gaming is part of their lifestyle. Similiar to hardcore movies goers or hardcore sport fans or hardcore birdwatchers.
#77
How much do you pay (assuming you have one) for XBLiveArcade monthly service, not to mention actually purchasing the games to download?
10/13/2007 (6:56 pm)
Quote:
True. Even with the monthly subscription price, it's going to be an uphill battle if the monthly fee is over $10.00 per month. People just don't want to pay that much.
How much do you pay (assuming you have one) for XBLiveArcade monthly service, not to mention actually purchasing the games to download?
Quote:(from the article quoted above, "Diller's IAC Pulls Trigger...")
Ms. Fisher said InstantAction lends itself to several money-making models, including advertising and subscriptions.
#78
Umm...sure find me a casual game that cost more than 6 hundred thousand and took more than one year to make.
10/13/2007 (7:03 pm)
Quote:Casual and Harcore games are not defined by production budget.
Umm...sure find me a casual game that cost more than 6 hundred thousand and took more than one year to make.
#79
Correlation does not prove causality.
10/13/2007 (7:06 pm)
Quote:
Quote:
Casual and Harcore games are not defined by production budget.
Umm...sure find me a casual game that cost more than 6 hundred thousand and took more than one year to make.
Correlation does not prove causality.
#80
I'm no marketing master and all I can tell you is what I know: I won't pay a fee to play a game in a web browser. Period. Now I've bought games that I played a demo of in the browser, but never a game that I had to play in the browser.
Is there a download option? Andwhat information shows that it's what people want?What are the true benefits?
I've asked myself why I wouldn't buy games for browser only play and the only only thing I come up with is that it doesn't feel right. It's sort of like watching movies on the internet to me. Sure, they are cheaper then renting from a store but it's not how I did it in the past and I'm used to what I'm used to.
This is one of those things that could work. But the thing to keep in mind here is that just because you can do something really cool, it doesn't mean that people will care for it. Or for that matter are ready for it.
I just figured that i would throw that out there. And i'm hoping that the launch of ia will change my mind.
I guess we will find out soon enough
10/13/2007 (7:21 pm)
I'm interested in the research that went into this too. I'm no marketing master and all I can tell you is what I know: I won't pay a fee to play a game in a web browser. Period. Now I've bought games that I played a demo of in the browser, but never a game that I had to play in the browser.
Is there a download option? Andwhat information shows that it's what people want?What are the true benefits?
I've asked myself why I wouldn't buy games for browser only play and the only only thing I come up with is that it doesn't feel right. It's sort of like watching movies on the internet to me. Sure, they are cheaper then renting from a store but it's not how I did it in the past and I'm used to what I'm used to.
This is one of those things that could work. But the thing to keep in mind here is that just because you can do something really cool, it doesn't mean that people will care for it. Or for that matter are ready for it.
I just figured that i would throw that out there. And i'm hoping that the launch of ia will change my mind.
I guess we will find out soon enough
Torque Owner Kevin Summers