Suitability of Torque for Car,Fighting and Survival Horror
by Crimson Rum Khulay Gin · in Technical Issues · 09/27/2007 (4:58 am) · 13 replies
Greetings everyone! The company I'm working for is planning some projects that's why I'm wondering how suitable Torque is for the following types of games:
1. Car Game (like GTA or Driver)- Tried implementing this in 3DGS but failed because the Terrain System is less powerfull compared to that of Torque's.
2. Fighting Game (simmilar to old Tekken 1 and 2)- somehow managed to have a fighting engine up and running in 3DGS.
3. Survival Horror Style Game (with 3D angles simmilar to RE3 and older) - successfully implemented in 3DGS due to the cameras being easily manipulateable there.
My superiors specified that a low cost and multi platform engine should be chosen. I think that Torque seems to be the ultimate answer due to it being powerfull. However, I can't help but have second thoughts due to it's difficulty. I'm just wondering if we really should invest Torque or continue using the easier ones (like Blitz or 3DGS that I do know how to use but lacks power and and is not multi-platform) for our projects. Thanks in advance everyone :)
1. Car Game (like GTA or Driver)- Tried implementing this in 3DGS but failed because the Terrain System is less powerfull compared to that of Torque's.
2. Fighting Game (simmilar to old Tekken 1 and 2)- somehow managed to have a fighting engine up and running in 3DGS.
3. Survival Horror Style Game (with 3D angles simmilar to RE3 and older) - successfully implemented in 3DGS due to the cameras being easily manipulateable there.
My superiors specified that a low cost and multi platform engine should be chosen. I think that Torque seems to be the ultimate answer due to it being powerfull. However, I can't help but have second thoughts due to it's difficulty. I'm just wondering if we really should invest Torque or continue using the easier ones (like Blitz or 3DGS that I do know how to use but lacks power and and is not multi-platform) for our projects. Thanks in advance everyone :)
#2
09/27/2007 (5:42 pm)
Alright! Thanks Sean! :)
#3
09/28/2007 (2:34 am)
Is there anyone that ever made a game with torque with fixed cameras a la resident evil/devil may cry style? I would sure like some screenshots if thats the case.
#4
09/28/2007 (6:38 am)
Actually I've been looking around for that sort of example in Torque too where only the character and other movaeable stuff are actually in 3d. The environment's actually prerendered 3D bitmap. Does anyone know if there an example that made use of Torque somewhere? 
#5
I will say overall I'm happy with Torque, if I could just get the scripting down I'd be alot happier.
As for Sean H's comments, he doesn't own Torque, so I'm not sure if that is an alternate account or what.
09/28/2007 (8:21 am)
I just did a quick search and there does seem to be a way to do it. I believe it's in a public area, but without having the full SDK, you probably can't make the changes. The thing is, Torque does not have alot of tutorials and unless it's been written by one of the community members, it probably doesn't exist.I will say overall I'm happy with Torque, if I could just get the scripting down I'd be alot happier.
As for Sean H's comments, he doesn't own Torque, so I'm not sure if that is an alternate account or what.
#6
I'm not trying to discourage you from using torque, it may very well suit your purposes, but you should know that the functionality you're looking for isn't available in torque out the box. modifications would be necessary.
09/28/2007 (9:10 am)
Crimson I doubt anyone's made a game like that in torque. the torque engine is mainly for making fps and third person shooters with vehicles and such. torque doesn't have alot of flexibility when it comes to cameras. the camera is either attached to the player entity, or is in a free-floating "observer" mode. by default, player movement is closely tied to camera movement so you would have to change the engine source to decouple the two.I'm not trying to discourage you from using torque, it may very well suit your purposes, but you should know that the functionality you're looking for isn't available in torque out the box. modifications would be necessary.
#7
Torque is not a game maker. Torque is a game engine, that provides an integrated set of systems and functionalities to serve as a base for what you, as a game developer, want to accomplish in your game.
It's why you have the source code--because it is intended by design that you will write c++ code, create new classes within the core hierarchy, and otherwise implement your game on top of the underlying engine--not within it.
09/28/2007 (9:58 am)
Modifications are necessary for just about anything.Torque is not a game maker. Torque is a game engine, that provides an integrated set of systems and functionalities to serve as a base for what you, as a game developer, want to accomplish in your game.
It's why you have the source code--because it is intended by design that you will write c++ code, create new classes within the core hierarchy, and otherwise implement your game on top of the underlying engine--not within it.
#8
Now, as to the original post. Every one of those game types are possible, and I've personally seen examples of them done with Torque. Now, they're all going to require digging into the code and tweaking things to fit your needs to some degree, some more than others.
The one that would require the most work code-wise, in my opinion, would be a fighting game. You would need to implement melee combat, hitboxes/more precise collision, combo system, but, like I said, it's possible.
A GTA-like game would probably require a little less work than the previous, again in my opinion. The main concern here would be the size of the world you're wanting and how populated you intend it to be. There would need to be plenty of optimization and testing, but again, entirely possible.
An RE style game would, once again in my opinion, be the easiest of the three in terms of amount of tweaks to the engine. You'd probably need to do some stuff for interacting with items, likely a custom inventory system, etc.
Virtually any type of game can be done with Torque. What it comes down to is whether or not you are technically able to do or, whether or not you have the time to learn how to do it.
09/28/2007 (10:13 am)
Sean, that's just flat out wrong. Cameras can be extremely flexible in Torque, even with just the scripting, in fact the camera system in question can be entirely scripted. The fact that you seem to think otherwise only shows how ignorant you are of the engine's capabilities.Now, as to the original post. Every one of those game types are possible, and I've personally seen examples of them done with Torque. Now, they're all going to require digging into the code and tweaking things to fit your needs to some degree, some more than others.
The one that would require the most work code-wise, in my opinion, would be a fighting game. You would need to implement melee combat, hitboxes/more precise collision, combo system, but, like I said, it's possible.
A GTA-like game would probably require a little less work than the previous, again in my opinion. The main concern here would be the size of the world you're wanting and how populated you intend it to be. There would need to be plenty of optimization and testing, but again, entirely possible.
An RE style game would, once again in my opinion, be the easiest of the three in terms of amount of tweaks to the engine. You'd probably need to do some stuff for interacting with items, likely a custom inventory system, etc.
Virtually any type of game can be done with Torque. What it comes down to is whether or not you are technically able to do or, whether or not you have the time to learn how to do it.
#9
saying that something "can" be done with engine changes is the same thing as saying that it's not supported by the engine AFAIC. anything "can" be done in any engine by changing the source. an engine supports features if they can be implemented without changing the engine, and Crimson's stated requirements are NOT suported in torque.
09/28/2007 (11:50 am)
Scott nothing I said in my post is wrong and if you think so you are definitely in the minority. with just scripting, you may be able to devise some clever way[hack] of implementing an RE style game perspective, but torque does not support this functionality by default. I would be doing Crimson a disservice by telling him otherwise. the default controls for player movement and camera perspective are tailored for fps and tps, point blank. saying that something "can" be done with engine changes is the same thing as saying that it's not supported by the engine AFAIC. anything "can" be done in any engine by changing the source. an engine supports features if they can be implemented without changing the engine, and Crimson's stated requirements are NOT suported in torque.
#10
Sure, there are a lot of things you can do in script, but if you are buying Torque to just script a game, then you may want to do exactly what you said--go to a more simplistic game maker, and give up the power and flexibility of having direct access to the source code and all the capability (and responsibility) that entails.
09/28/2007 (11:52 am)
@Sean: See my post. TorqueScript, and Torque, were never intended to be a "make your game with just script" development environment.Sure, there are a lot of things you can do in script, but if you are buying Torque to just script a game, then you may want to do exactly what you said--go to a more simplistic game maker, and give up the power and flexibility of having direct access to the source code and all the capability (and responsibility) that entails.
#11
*sigh* I can see where this is going and I don't have the energy nor the patience to go there. There's been too much of that lately around here. In case you were curious though, there were no clever hacks. If you fire up the editor and look under the mission category in the creator you'll see a camera object there, you can position it anyway which way you please, have fun.
@Crimson
I hope I was able to help you answer your questions.
09/28/2007 (12:18 pm)
@Sean*sigh* I can see where this is going and I don't have the energy nor the patience to go there. There's been too much of that lately around here. In case you were curious though, there were no clever hacks. If you fire up the editor and look under the mission category in the creator you'll see a camera object there, you can position it anyway which way you please, have fun.
@Crimson
I hope I was able to help you answer your questions.
#12
Torque isn't really suitable for this sort of game. Not only because of torque's horribly buggy vehicle physics and collision detection, but torque doesn't do city landscapes well at all.
This is quite possible, although hackish in the suggested implementation. That revolves around mounting an invisible object to the hand/feet of the toon, then using a castray to detect collisions with the opponent's bounding box. Accurate collisions with the other toon's mesh just aren't going to happen, if you want them to spout blood effects or whatnot.
This is your best bet, torque has just about all you would want to implement this sort of game. After all, it's similar to an FPS with a fixed camera. Torque could handle it quite well.
09/28/2007 (12:34 pm)
Quote:1. Car Game (like GTA or Driver)- Tried implementing this in 3DGS but failed because the Terrain System is less powerfull compared to that of Torque's.
Torque isn't really suitable for this sort of game. Not only because of torque's horribly buggy vehicle physics and collision detection, but torque doesn't do city landscapes well at all.
Quote:
2. Fighting Game (simmilar to old Tekken 1 and 2)- somehow managed to have a fighting engine up and running in 3DGS.
This is quite possible, although hackish in the suggested implementation. That revolves around mounting an invisible object to the hand/feet of the toon, then using a castray to detect collisions with the opponent's bounding box. Accurate collisions with the other toon's mesh just aren't going to happen, if you want them to spout blood effects or whatnot.
Quote:
3. Survival Horror Style Game (with 3D angles simmilar to RE3 and older) - successfully implemented in 3DGS due to the cameras being easily manipulateable there.
This is your best bet, torque has just about all you would want to implement this sort of game. After all, it's similar to an FPS with a fixed camera. Torque could handle it quite well.
#13
Anyway, I really appreciate your comments everyone.
Sean: Thank you so much for your honesty. Actually just like anyone who is financially lacking, I am gonna think twice before buying any product. There actually are other products out there I'd like to test (like C4) and it so happened that Torque captured my attention. Actually, I guess I'm gonna try Torque out anyways (using TorqueScript only of course cuz I don't have the SDK) but you were right about some features I like to have not being available out of the box. Thank you for raising points that I need to ponder about. I really appreciate it.
Scott: Actually I do know how to use C++ a bit. I had the chance to handle console programing as well as MFC before I graduated last March though I am not really sure if I can study the Torque source code (and tinker with it) given that I should come up with the engine to use before this year ends. So I guess I am gonna try/hack ways of implementing those kinds of games using TorqueScript. If there is one thing I see in Torque, it's raw power. So who knows? I may actually get the indie license soon.
Everyone: One of the stronger features I heard of Torque is the community. The intensity of the discussion here only to proves how helpful/patient the Torque community is towards newbies like me. Thank you so much everyone. I'm looking forward to being part of the family soon. :)
09/30/2007 (9:42 pm)
Hello again everyone! :-) I just finished reading the posts cuz' I was on off this weekend.Anyway, I really appreciate your comments everyone.
Sean: Thank you so much for your honesty. Actually just like anyone who is financially lacking, I am gonna think twice before buying any product. There actually are other products out there I'd like to test (like C4) and it so happened that Torque captured my attention. Actually, I guess I'm gonna try Torque out anyways (using TorqueScript only of course cuz I don't have the SDK) but you were right about some features I like to have not being available out of the box. Thank you for raising points that I need to ponder about. I really appreciate it.
Scott: Actually I do know how to use C++ a bit. I had the chance to handle console programing as well as MFC before I graduated last March though I am not really sure if I can study the Torque source code (and tinker with it) given that I should come up with the engine to use before this year ends. So I guess I am gonna try/hack ways of implementing those kinds of games using TorqueScript. If there is one thing I see in Torque, it's raw power. So who knows? I may actually get the indie license soon.
Everyone: One of the stronger features I heard of Torque is the community. The intensity of the discussion here only to proves how helpful/patient the Torque community is towards newbies like me. Thank you so much everyone. I'm looking forward to being part of the family soon. :)
Torque 3D Owner Sean H.