So who the heck is IAC?
by Eric Fritz · in General Discussion · 09/17/2007 (10:49 pm) · 176 replies
As stories start rolling in, you folks will no doubt have a few questions. And we want to answer them.
Josh will be posting a blog first thing in the morning, and will try to answer as many questions as we can think up. Any that aren't addressed, we'll respond to here on the forums.
Thanks all for your understanding and patience!
Josh will be posting a blog first thing in the morning, and will try to answer as many questions as we can think up. Any that aren't addressed, we'll respond to here on the forums.
Thanks all for your understanding and patience!
#2
09/17/2007 (11:19 pm)
Pre-emptive, take it from me, this is an awesome thing for Torque, and indie devs... :)
#3
09/17/2007 (11:20 pm)
Well then in that case, *two thumbs up* count me in for the ride. =) 
#4
09/17/2007 (11:25 pm)
We will be announcing some *very* cool things about Torque at IGC =D
#5
09/18/2007 (4:40 am)
Wow! 3 thumbs up! Just had the third arm installed, not working well enough for other things, but I got an extra thumb here!! wooo!!!! Congratulations :)))) 
#6
I beta tested a game engine called Atmosphere Adobe bought out the small company making the engine, then, to "make it better", they bought another engine to combine the two. The whole thing was shut down the day they went gold.
Big corperations are [u]Not[/u] the ticket. They will play with you until you aren't fun anymore, then shut you down.
My question to GG is, what are you going to do when this "New online gaming site" doesn't make this big corp the money they promised their share holders, and the share holders tell them to shut it down? Torque will sit on a shelf. I really think this was a Very bad idea for GG.
09/18/2007 (4:54 am)
You guys are excited, I have that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. Big corps are great at making promises they don't keep. I beta tested a game engine called Atmosphere Adobe bought out the small company making the engine, then, to "make it better", they bought another engine to combine the two. The whole thing was shut down the day they went gold.
Big corperations are [u]Not[/u] the ticket. They will play with you until you aren't fun anymore, then shut you down.
My question to GG is, what are you going to do when this "New online gaming site" doesn't make this big corp the money they promised their share holders, and the share holders tell them to shut it down? Torque will sit on a shelf. I really think this was a Very bad idea for GG.
#7
I've met a few of the GarageGames folks, and they have something in common: they are extremely forward thinking, and really out to help the Indies. They take a lot of flack for just about everything they do, and mostly quietly bear it, understanding the passionate nature of the very demanding tech users. It's pervasive in the culture, decisions, etc. Business decisions also have been forward seeking and opening up new doors for us, not closing them. It means a new front for Indie games, and additional resources to throw at Indie game technology. That simply cannot be bad.
09/18/2007 (5:03 am)
Well, yes there is always that kind of risk, lots of bad things happen. Yet we also need to remember, Torque will never sit on a shelf as long as people are using it and growing it. In this case, there are many fires burning and they won't go out for lack of fuel.I've met a few of the GarageGames folks, and they have something in common: they are extremely forward thinking, and really out to help the Indies. They take a lot of flack for just about everything they do, and mostly quietly bear it, understanding the passionate nature of the very demanding tech users. It's pervasive in the culture, decisions, etc. Business decisions also have been forward seeking and opening up new doors for us, not closing them. It means a new front for Indie games, and additional resources to throw at Indie game technology. That simply cannot be bad.
#8
I really interested btw in the announcements coming soon. Torque in the browser? Might be a super way of deploying games to casual gamers that aren't gamers today (or don't know of). Sounds very interesting.
So, good for the tech side, not sure about the biz side.
09/18/2007 (6:12 am)
Am I the only one that feels not so excited? Why was there a need (money I guess) to take a major stake from GarageGames? Don't know why, but it makes me feel a bit sad as it feels to me GG looses its independence somehow. Not sure if it's right, but it's my first impression. I really interested btw in the announcements coming soon. Torque in the browser? Might be a super way of deploying games to casual gamers that aren't gamers today (or don't know of). Sounds very interesting.
So, good for the tech side, not sure about the biz side.
#10
Tim I'll trust you and let out a great big Wootles! for indies all over the world. I cannot wait for the "awesome" things to come! And if they don't I can just blame it all on you :)
Really, I cannot say I've personally approved of decision GG has made but folks if you look at the big picture they've done pretty well by us indies. So lets give them the benefit of the doubt here.
Cheers!
09/18/2007 (6:37 am)
Quote:Pre-emptive, take it from me, this is an awesome thing for Torque, and indie devs... :)
Tim I'll trust you and let out a great big Wootles! for indies all over the world. I cannot wait for the "awesome" things to come! And if they don't I can just blame it all on you :)
Really, I cannot say I've personally approved of decision GG has made but folks if you look at the big picture they've done pretty well by us indies. So lets give them the benefit of the doubt here.
Cheers!
#11
Now, that being said, let me make a few points (I don't want to pre-empt Josh's blog which should be up very soon):
--we've had investors of various sorts beating down our doors for more than 2 years now. Until now, we've turned every single one away, because we did not feel it was a good philosophical or cultural fit. When this one finally became apparent, Rick, Jeff, Tim and Mark (the four founders), Josh Williams, as well as many others spent many months doing the due diligence necessary to make sure it made sense to not just us as a company, but our customers as well.
--until now, everything GG did was completely self-funded (no external investment at all before this), and therefore at times did not meet either our, or your (generic you) expectations. I cannot count how many times over the years I've heard "why doesn't GG go hire some tech writers to work on documentation???"--guess what--because we couldn't afford to. When we wanted to create games to prove our technology, we had to stop working on the technology because we couldn't fund both. Now, we no longer have those constraints.
--this merger announcement is after the fact--and in fact, we've been operating under the new organization for quite a bit of time. When you're looking at the individual trees, you don't normally get a feel for the forest, so let me throw some data out there for you that's happened in the last 4 months:
----TGB physics and internals get a complete re-write, and behaviors
----TGE-A get not 1, not 2, but 3 point releases
----TGE get it's most stable and successful point release ever, with major functionality increases as well
----Torque for Wii
----If you haven't noticed yet, take a look up at your bright yellow Navigation Bar, and check out the Documentation tab. Now, log out of GG, and check it again. Finally, while logged out, check out the New TGE documentation format that is available to everyone, from commercial licensees to people downloading the demo for the first time.
---and that's just the tip of the iceberg. We'll have many more announcements forthcoming in the next few weeks, so stay tuned!
09/18/2007 (6:50 am)
First, I'd like to say that absolutely, there are always risks involved in things like this. It would be naive to come out and say "Mike, Martin, your worries are unfounded--never happen!!!!".Now, that being said, let me make a few points (I don't want to pre-empt Josh's blog which should be up very soon):
--we've had investors of various sorts beating down our doors for more than 2 years now. Until now, we've turned every single one away, because we did not feel it was a good philosophical or cultural fit. When this one finally became apparent, Rick, Jeff, Tim and Mark (the four founders), Josh Williams, as well as many others spent many months doing the due diligence necessary to make sure it made sense to not just us as a company, but our customers as well.
--until now, everything GG did was completely self-funded (no external investment at all before this), and therefore at times did not meet either our, or your (generic you) expectations. I cannot count how many times over the years I've heard "why doesn't GG go hire some tech writers to work on documentation???"--guess what--because we couldn't afford to. When we wanted to create games to prove our technology, we had to stop working on the technology because we couldn't fund both. Now, we no longer have those constraints.
--this merger announcement is after the fact--and in fact, we've been operating under the new organization for quite a bit of time. When you're looking at the individual trees, you don't normally get a feel for the forest, so let me throw some data out there for you that's happened in the last 4 months:
----TGB physics and internals get a complete re-write, and behaviors
----TGE-A get not 1, not 2, but 3 point releases
----TGE get it's most stable and successful point release ever, with major functionality increases as well
----Torque for Wii
----If you haven't noticed yet, take a look up at your bright yellow Navigation Bar, and check out the Documentation tab. Now, log out of GG, and check it again. Finally, while logged out, check out the New TGE documentation format that is available to everyone, from commercial licensees to people downloading the demo for the first time.
---and that's just the tip of the iceberg. We'll have many more announcements forthcoming in the next few weeks, so stay tuned!
#12
Maybe it's just that I have seen it too many times that those very special small and exciting companies get pumped up with millions of dollars and loose what made them special. Don't want to sound negative, but experience from the last years teached me that a small company that gets bought by a big one has never been something good from what I have seen. I might be wrong this time... hopefully.
09/18/2007 (6:52 am)
@James: I agree, they made some very good decisions so far. Maybe it's just that I have seen it too many times that those very special small and exciting companies get pumped up with millions of dollars and loose what made them special. Don't want to sound negative, but experience from the last years teached me that a small company that gets bought by a big one has never been something good from what I have seen. I might be wrong this time... hopefully.
#13
That said, I have some musings about this kind of operations:
I don't believe in 'huge things coming' just because somebody invested a large amount of money. Money makes it sometimes easier to think longer-term, but having to take care of an investment partner that only wants to see a return on investment, that might complicate things. Not to mention that partners might change ideas over time, or have long-term plans that coincide only partially with what you would like to do.
I hope GG doesn't turn out into a game portal like there are many around already, losing the TGE development in the process and only looking into TGEA, TGB and console development. This would mean GG dies and all we have left is the shop. This will be the most difficult part I guess, keeping your unique profile and making sure you don't get sucked into the large corporate structure that isn't fundamentally games-related.
But, like I said. We'll see how it goes. I hope in a year we will be able to look back with a good feeling on the last year.
09/18/2007 (6:57 am)
I'm willing to give this thing the benefit of the doubt. I'm not going to rush things in any direction : not cheering or bombing this to the ground. I'll see what comes of it, and I hope it's in a direction I am interested in (which is not console gaming btw). That said, I have some musings about this kind of operations:
I don't believe in 'huge things coming' just because somebody invested a large amount of money. Money makes it sometimes easier to think longer-term, but having to take care of an investment partner that only wants to see a return on investment, that might complicate things. Not to mention that partners might change ideas over time, or have long-term plans that coincide only partially with what you would like to do.
I hope GG doesn't turn out into a game portal like there are many around already, losing the TGE development in the process and only looking into TGEA, TGB and console development. This would mean GG dies and all we have left is the shop. This will be the most difficult part I guess, keeping your unique profile and making sure you don't get sucked into the large corporate structure that isn't fundamentally games-related.
But, like I said. We'll see how it goes. I hope in a year we will be able to look back with a good feeling on the last year.
#14
Right, I understand that and I like the idea that there's now/soon money for both. I have sooo many wishes for Torque... well, who not? New sound engine etc. all the nice things are possible now. It's just that I see also the risk just as you said above. On the other hand, as said, I'm excited about the possibilities!
Btw: The very first thing that came up to my mind when reading this thread was some blog from Jeff Tunnel long time ago when he was telling about the time when the suits came in and offered him money to sell Dynamix. Don't know why, this was my first thought. :-)
09/18/2007 (7:10 am)
@Stephen: Hehe, getting more critical/careful is maybe something that just comes when getting "older" (I'm 35 now). I remember myself in the new economy age working in those super hip companies getting those kind of news every week and jumping around beeing excited. Anyway... :-)Quote:
... stop working on the technology because we couldn't fund both. Now, we no longer have those constraints.
Right, I understand that and I like the idea that there's now/soon money for both. I have sooo many wishes for Torque... well, who not? New sound engine etc. all the nice things are possible now. It's just that I see also the risk just as you said above. On the other hand, as said, I'm excited about the possibilities!
Btw: The very first thing that came up to my mind when reading this thread was some blog from Jeff Tunnel long time ago when he was telling about the time when the suits came in and offered him money to sell Dynamix. Don't know why, this was my first thought. :-)
#15
09/18/2007 (7:54 am)
I just want to say one thing. It's a metaphor that I think sums it up very accurately. Our relationship with IAC is like an indie record company, say SubPop, getting a distribution contract with Universal. Universal's not making the decisions, not doing the A&R, not bringing in Brittney and Justin to replace Nirvana and Tad. They're just funding the product, using all their trucks to take the product to all their distribution points. We get huge reach. We don't give up our mission (it's easier to do) we don't give up our control, we don't change our philosophy. 
#17
That said, the initial news struck me with a semi-sick feeling, since as pointed out by others, these sorts of things typically don't end well. Although I think the comparison to anything to do with Adobe is rather unfounded, since they're the kings of taking stuff and ruining it/overcharging for it (*cough*Macromedia*cough*).
09/18/2007 (9:45 am)
This seems like pretty good news. GG has been ramping up a lot of things as pointed out by Stephen Zepp up above and it's good to see that progress. I can't wait to see what's in store released!That said, the initial news struck me with a semi-sick feeling, since as pointed out by others, these sorts of things typically don't end well. Although I think the comparison to anything to do with Adobe is rather unfounded, since they're the kings of taking stuff and ruining it/overcharging for it (*cough*Macromedia*cough*).
#18
09/18/2007 (9:54 am)
You say that as if Macromedia had a low price to begin with. I don't think it actually went up with Adobe. It just got bundled, like the rest of their software.
#19
Edit: I like the TGE documentation posted, very slick.
09/18/2007 (10:06 am)
Well, it was fairly low compared to what it is now.... Dreamweaver for instance, $399 compared to ~$200-250 when it was Macromedia. If you're buying 2-3 of the products, it's a pretty significant difference to be paying an extra $150-200 per product. But I digress.Edit: I like the TGE documentation posted, very slick.
#20
09/18/2007 (10:24 am)
I was thinking of Flash which was their flagship product, and was always quite expensive. Though they did run really good deals every couple of months.
Torque Owner Nick Zimmerman