How did you guys Learn to make video games. Encourage me

#21 Wow i like the feedback, i was looking in my inbox for days looking for replys but i didint check my junkmail so i missed replying. Anyways i appreciate all the comments. Thats Mark for discouraging me :) and others for encouraging me.
I got alot of reading to do its not even funny. Im reading the 3d game programming book, but at the same time, im watching and practicing from c++ tutorials, at the same time reading a c+ programming book.
Its hell. I cant really make anything right now, all i can do is simply

function main()
{
print( "You guys are awesome");
}

and afew other things.. its almost similar to c++ so whenever im stuck with something in the 3d game programming book, i go back to watch my hour long c++ tutorials then i understand better.

#22 By the way. Which is better to go to.
I live in Toronto Canada,
Currently in gr.12
Im wondering, is it better to go to University and take different courses such as math, physics, sofware engineering and all that is needed to have knowledge of video game development or is it better for me to go to this ultra cool school called "International Academy of Design and Technology in Canada" and take thier hottest program which is Video game Development. Were they cover everything about video game development and the teachers are industry professionals who worked on PS2,Xbox,PC,GAMECUBE games and probablly PS3, 360 and Wii aswell.
Tell me,

#23 Take the liberal arts approach, learn industry specific stuff on your own. Much better that way. I wrote an article saying as much here.

In any case, I think you'll be much better off bringing a lot of knowledge and capability to learn to the table than learning soon-to-be-obsolete techniques.

Whatever you choose, good luck!

#24 I'm from around Toronto and I went to University for my Computer Science degree after a college diploma.

I disagree that I learned "soon-to-be-obsolete" techniques at University. A degree provides a solid foundation in math, compiler theory, networking, databases as well as graphics, project management, system design. I would recommend University. I have a very solid skill set that I can apply to game programming, which I have done professionally, as well as network security and inventory management, both of which I've also done. A degree gives employers a lot of confidence that you have the skills and determination to match. And, if you can't find a job in the industry, you have enough skills to find something else in the meantime.

Torque is an excellent product to work with. I strongly recommend making small, simple games and working your way up to large, complex games. What you do on your own time, games, will become the portfolio you show potential employers.

As a counter-argument to the "soon-to-be-obsolete" remark. A liberal arts college will teach students what's new and hot. Computer technology is always changing and there's no guarantee skills learned today will work tomorrow, unless you have some groundwork to build on. In college I learned how to use software packages; I had little to no training to manage projects or try to solve a problem multiple ways so that I can understand the solution rather than writing a solution by wrote. Make sure that you attend an accredited school. It's very easy for someone to call themselves "Institute for the Latest and Greatest" while having no credentials. You need to be sure that when you graduate you have a diploma or degree that will be recognized; I'd recommend only attending schools that you can apply to via the Ontario College Application Services (OCAS).

#25 I think maybe my post was kind of ambiguous if one didn't read the article ;) I think I agree with you, Nikos. I was saying that "soon-to-be-obsolete" skillsets are taught at game-specific colleges.

My experience so far has been that the industry needs computer scientists with a liberal arts background more than game-trained programmers. That's not to say that some people don't thrive in a gaming-focused program (there are a whole bunch of people here who did that whom I respect a lot).

I disagree on the point that liberal arts colleges teach what's new and hot. I don't think Lisp or graph theory are particularly hot or new (at all), but that's the kind of stuff all my classes have been about. The closest we've gotten to recent stuff in the core classes has been processor and memory architecture.

In any case, I only really know my situation and have only heard about the game-specific programs. I do know that the recruiters and industry professionals that I've talked to about it have all said that they are very wary about the game colleges. In the end, though, what really matters is the person and not the college. There are tons of lazy fools at my school and there are tons of really motivated people at the game colleges.

#26 Nikos Beck
Which University did you go to and what courses or programs did you take?
And are you able to create full multiplayer games today after your UNiversity education?

#27 Tom, you make a very good point that it's the people rather than the school that makes the difference. I know of students who were hired after graduation for game companies, some went to large engineering companies, others are still working in fast food.

A good recruiter will weigh an applicant's skills. Too often it's easier to toss out resumes unless the applicant goes to a top university and has straight A's.

I attended the University of Western Ontario. They have a good computer science program. There have been some big changes since I graduated. I cut my teeth writing for Solaris but they now have several Windows labs. They have a series of game classes whereas I had one. They also have a clever system where someone can pick and choose their majors. It's possible to be a Comp Sci-English Lit double-major or a Classic Studies-Economics double-major. I picked one major and that's all I got. You'll want to check out the course offerings of each school, speak with their admissions staff, your academic counsellor.

Can I make a multiplayer game? Yes; in theory. I've never sat down and tried. I suspect I'd encounter many, many issues that a veteran doesn't even think about anymore. I tried to make an FPS a couple of years ago and it wasn't spectacular. But, you could make a multiplayer game after attending a game school as well.

#28 How long did it take for you to finish all the courses you needed to have enough knowledge to create a full game with both a story and multiplayer element?

#29 You could probably start putting something together after your first year. I'd say that by the time you've completed your second year, you have enough to finish a game. A diploma takes two or three years and a degree takes three or four.

I'd recommend that you start small. Your first game should be something that you can finish within three months. It might be that you create a simple game where the player wanders around looking for items on a list. When they've collected them all, they're done. A complete game that will eventually grow into your final game. Then you could add NPCs that give clues and offer some story. A second completed game. If you try to tackle everything at once, it'll be a huge, long project that can be very discouraging.

Maybe your first game could be something like how to pick a lock, like a mini-game. It's something that can be added to your big project but stands on it's own too.

The best motivation is having something done. It gives you the confidence to know you can do it, something to show people who doubt you, experience, and most importantly: the ability to look at the code, realize you could have done it better, and do the next game better rather than going back and rewriting the same code for the second, third, or tenth time. Rewriting the same code over and over again is a big pitfall for those new to programming.

#30

Quote:How long did it take for you to finish all the courses you needed to have enough knowledge to create a full game with both a story and multiplayer element?

You know, I thought I'd just chime in. I started games programming as a hobby in C++ at the age of 14. My dad actually did the heavy coding, then I learned by watching what he did and modifying it. Flash forward to today (about 13 years later), and I think the hardest thing for me to grapple with over that time is just how big/pretty/complex games have become. In the early 90s, making a decent 2D game with sprites, joystick, etc... in windows 3.1 was actually not too far from what popular shareware releases at the time were. Today, obviously, trying to make a 3D game that keeps up with the latest out there is virtually impossible for a single person.

My advice is to make a simple game, like tic-tac-toe in TGB. Then make some more complex games. If I were you, I wouldn't be looking at TGEA. That will just overwhelm you, frustrate you, and turn you off from games. I bought TGB instead of TGE, because I knew I wouldn't be able to handle a 3D game on my own. And I've almost got a my master's degree (computer engineering) done! So "start small" really is the best advice out there. You'll learn a lot more by building up your experience than just taking classes. Use classes as a foundation to get started, but you'll need to teach yourself if you want the best way to learn.

#31 I've wanted to make video games since I played them on my ColecoVision. I've been learning how to do things for myself since I got a computer when I was 11. I'm not formally educated in game making, or in programming. Personally I think there are enough books and online resources where you'd be wasting your time and money going to college. Unless you want to work for a big name studio..then you'll need plenty of schooling to even get an interview. These days you don't even need C++ to make games, or to run a game company. Learn how to use an existing game engine, instead of how to write your own. Don't make this harder than it needs to be.

#32

Quote:
Unless you want to work for a big name studio..then you'll need plenty of schooling to even get an interview. These days you don't even need C++ to make games, or to run a game company. Learn how to use an existing game engine, instead of how to write your own. Don't make this harder than it needs to be.

This is un-true in it's entirety.

Education is secondary to what you know and can get done. This is what will get you an interview at a big-name studio.

There are very few games which are made without engine modifications. Modifying an engine means that you need to be familiar with the language it is written in. You then need to be familiar with the engine architecture. This architecture will not make any sense until you've gotten perspective on it. You can't get too much perspective on it until you know what it is doing, and have investigated how other people have done it.

I've been working with Torque for 6 years now, and interned at a AAA studio working with a different engine, for a bit. Nothing in my experience has suggested that there is a lot of slack room for an answer like, "I'm sorry, I can't fix that bug because I don't know the language our engine is written in."

I don't mean to be discouraging, or harsh, but if you are looking to get into game development, as a programmer, there are very few areas of knowledge which are optional. Game dev is a rapidly evolving industry, and being without the knowledge to read papers from SIGGRAPH, or understand slides from GameFest is hamstringing yourself. This knowledge doesn't have to (and, probably won't) come from a formal education.

#33 Anyone just starting out would do better to learn programming first, and game programming second. Same thing with any of the related technologies--computer graphics, computer audio, 3d modeling, animation, etc. Learn to do (some of) that stuff, then tackle making/modding games with it.

For someone without much programming or computer graphics experience who wanted to get into it, I'd recommend learning Povray. It's free, it's easier than game engines but the same concepts apply to both, and there are tons of tutorials.

Just my $0.02.

#34 It's possible to learn programming and creating (very simple ;P) games.
I was 14, as i have created my first game, a simple jump&run, after 1 month "basic"-learning ;) 18 years ago.
But to creating "good" games it will take years of praxis and learning.

A good point to start is creating mods for existing games. You will learn scripting and structure of the games.

#35 I actually learned TONS from the old Darkstar engine that Torque was created from. Buy Starsiege and screw around with that. The code is very simular and the .dts programming and engine design are simular. I will help you learn. So many people telling people to go away and not enough offering help. The don't tell you to go away on garagegames homepage!




www.ssmods.com

#36 I'm putting a bunch of tutorial videos for ya on my site www.ssmods.com look under ssm tutorials and then under "torque tutorials. These will give you a big headstart. Thanks goes out to whoever made all these.