Ragdoll Physics (NOT asking how to make it!)

#1 Unless you use Havok, you do not have to license it.

So no snooping through the leaked HL2 source.

A number of other physics libraries/engines have implemented ragdoll. Your major hurdle will be accurate network representation, should you do a demo of multiple clients pulling joints and juggling a doll, each ghosted accurately.

#2 In most Multiplayer games like UT2 / DOOM3 the Ragdolls are don't handled by the server.
The Server only tells the clients Player X is dead.
The client handles the dead player and decide (by user settings) to play a death animation or using a ragdoll simulation.

Normaly you have two kinds of physics:

Client-Physics:
Effects like Ragdolls, waterwaves, explosion debris, all Physics that are not change the Gameplay.

Server-Physics:
All Physics that affect the Gameplay, thowring boxes at other players, destroing buildings, etc...

The Torque engine has no support for real Ragdolls at the monent, but there is a Ragdoll animation kit. garagegames.com/products/65/

#3 Does the Ragdoll animation kit work with TGEA.

#4 I don't know why not. TGEA uses DSQ's just like TGE.

#5

Quote:do I need to get a license to use it from Havok, the original developer of ragdoll physics?

Absolutely not. Now I may be off the mark, but I think I see a misconception here in the OP's mind which needs to be cleared up.
Havok is not 'the original developer' of ragdoll physics. Granted, they might be the biggest name on this block, and though I'd have to research it to make sure, I believe they're not even the first. They're simply well known for having developed a commercially available ragdoll solution.

Ragdoll is a concept, not a specific product. If you manage to program your own solution, it is entirely your own creation (assuming you don't copy anyone else that is), and you would never have to pay anyone else for something you created yourself.

A thought occurs to me however, that *I* might be the one misreading. Are you asking if Havok ragdolls can be implemented into Torque? If that *is* what you're asking, then yes, you would have to get a license to use that product.

#6 @Trace: No, I'm not asking if it can be, I was asking if there was proper licensing needed. You aren't misreading :-)

Always thought that Havok developed it. Thank you for correcting me.

#7 Nope. Havok was, I believe, the first to use it as part of a game physics library. But there have been a number of demos for years. You should be able to find whitepapers from quite some time ago. It seems that there were several demos back when IK was first being implemented in modeling apps, too. Don't know who had the "first" or the first whitepaper on joint reactions in a simulation, though.

#8 The Ragdoll doesn't seem to work with TGEA. Is there something I have to edit or change in the coding?

#9 Additional Note: This pack requires minor engine changes to work in TGE, and some more substantial changes to work with the RTS pack. The rest of the changes are in script, but you must be capable of compiling your Torque engine in order to use this pack.

Not only do you need to tweak the TGE engine as it states, but as TGEA are quite different in some areas. You should be 'very clear' on the changes needed to make Ragdoll to work, as well as the differences in the engines before throwing yourself at a buy/tweak of this for tgea.

Info about Ragdoll and theres code ideas out there too.

BrYcE - Any ideas about what hooking method your going to be using yet ?

#10 @Christian: I don't have the source code yet, so I'm really only planning way ahead here :-). My plan was to replace a dead player model with a specialized ragdoll version. This new model would have rigid body applied to each of its bones, keeping 'spring' forces, angle limits, and other things in control. My biggest challenge then would be to keep the joints together, which I don't think Torque has any support of right now whatsoever.

#11 @David:

Quote:Nope. Havok was, I believe, the first to use it as part of a game physics library. But there have been a number of demos for years. You should be able to find whitepapers from quite some time ago. It seems that there were several demos back when IK was first being implemented in modeling apps, too. Don't know who had the "first" or the first whitepaper on joint reactions in a simulation, though.

Really? Okay, I stand corrected on Havok not being the first. However I stand by my statement that while Havok own's the Havok ragdoll code/library, they cannot and do no own the *concept* of ragdoll physics.
A concept or idea, which can be implemented in different ways and methods, cannot by itself be copyrighted or trademarked under any US or international law. However, any specific *method* of implementation can thusly be (C) or (TM).

Just wanted to make that one clear. Copyright and trademark law is something I did a ton of research in during college, and it's sadly two things *far* too many indies know very little truth about.

#12 You're right, Trace. And I did note that it was as far as I knew for a game physics implementation. There may have been one before. And while they cannot copyright it (they can copyright the source code or the whitepaper that produces the effect, but not the effect itself) or trademark it (they can trademark the name for it such as RigidBodyPhysX or something to that effect, but not the process). They *can* patent their process since software patents are upheld in the US, which can cause stickly problems for others who want to use a similar system to the patented one.