Modernization Kit Beta Thread 2

#41 AW man my drool cup slipped!!! Outstanding work Alex!!

#42 @ Alex, You know where I stand :D

@ Everyone else, Now that I am here at Garage Games, I have to say it is hard to resist popping in on Alex several times a day to see what sweet stuff he is cooking up.

#43 I'd have to say the second as well - though either would be awesome.

#44 I prefer the first one. but the best way to look at it would be to see some textures on it

edit:
well to come think about it. after looking at it with textures on the first style. i think the second one would prob look better.

#45 So, this is looking better and rendered faster, or am I wrong?
Looking gorgeous Alex! =)

#46 Congratulations Todd! Seems GG is eating up all the talent :)

It's hard to tell with the exaggerated bump mapping, but the gut tells me the harder it is the better it will look in the end. The second option seems to feather out the light maps better, from the example, which makes it look more natural. What ideas do you have in mind for normal/bump map auto-gens? It be nice to have a bit better control over what is and isn't shiny and how deep the bumps are per texture as well.

Another interesting dilemma with this will be the plainness of dts objects, especially those used static like on interiors. I imagine that would be a hefty chunk of code to re-write though.

None the less glad your having fun with it, it looks great so far!

#47 BTW, anyone knows what the minimum system requirements for the TGE with the MK are now? Especially the display card, what kind of features will be needed? (will it run on age old cards like GeForce2 or 9600XT ?).

I think I'll have to install my old GeForce2 MX in some system and test this out myself (unless I am too lazy..).

#48 Standard Torque doesn't run (smoothly) on a GeForce 2 - unless your game has nothing in it except a skybox and terrain, a few scattered difs if you're lucky. So I doubt the MK will run on a GeForce 2 (are people still using those anyhow?)

#49 "(are people still using those anyhow?)"


I hope not (6800 GS user here). I just want to know the minimum system requirements for TGE with MK (considering a game uses default TGE setup, that is).

#50 I'd like to know the answer to that as well. Is there still a problem with ati graphics cards? Or has that compatability been worked out?

Oh yeah, btw....I think the latter of the two looks best. IMHO

Awesome stuff Alex!

#51

Quote:
"(are people still using those anyhow?)"


I hope not (6800 GS user here). I just want to know the minimum system requirements for TGE with MK (considering a game uses default TGE setup, that is).

A very significant portion of the casual games market is using hardware at least that old, and/or integrated video that is extremely non-stellar in the capabilities department.

I'm not bashing the MK at all (I think it has a pretty good niche), but this is why we did not go this route as a company with TGE--the market focus for TGE is the broadest base hardware over multiple generations, and the techniques in the MK do limit the broad nature of that market.

Just to give an example--everything in stock TGE (some very minor assets delivered as part of the demo notwithstanding) could theoretically be used on the Wii. None of the MK added functionality is portable at all.

#52 To be honest I doubt it that many casual gamers even play 3D games at all. Games based on TGE engine especially. Casual gamers as far as I have seen always stick to cards and boards or simple games like Virtual villagers.. OR games like Gish made in TGB (right?).

So I would say that TGE, unlike TGB, isn't exactly for casual gamers and developers should be pushing it to its (or display card's) limits. That is of course just what I believe :P

#53 "The Sims" is arguably one of the most successful casual games on the market--and while yes it could be done in 2D, it can be done (much better imo) in 3D.

Anyway, I didn't want to derail the thread, I just wanted to give a perspective on engine selection once the "minimum hardware" question was brought up.

#54 Casual games for 2d sprite. I think the point is no ones targeting that market with a tge type game engine. Getting off track a bit i think is important to this thread and the development of the mk and/or it's inclusion in the tge. Regardless of gg's marketing plans, i think a good majority of folks developing on tge here are not making sims games. It's arguable that sims would be as popular in 3d, requiring better hardware to run. But tge as it stands converting a sims game to it would require better hardware then the spread you keep saying you're marketing to (which was Tims point, i believe). The mmo/fps/strategy/rpg market is leaping way past the tge capabilities which is really the point and a good reason why the community supports these sorts of changes to the tge 1000 fold.

As a side note, I think anything the mk would do to dts objects would cripple the engine. I could be wrong on this, but it's a pretty good bet that they re-wrote a good deal of tgea to get shaders on dts objects to render at a decent frame rate and not because they REALLY wanted to. So if anyone wants to do anything with dts rendering like advanced shaders, it would be a hefty undertaking i imagine. I'm talking out of school, of course.

#55 Alex, picture number 2 looks awsome. They both look great really! but i do like number 2 better like every one else.

#56 Alex great work!
It is great that you share your work with the community.

I have a problem with the MK and the updated radar resource by burning:
Once i have added the radar resource to the code and the radar to my GUI, the water shader starts to do weird things.

Screenshot of the weird water:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4tsqwx5

When the radar isn't added to the GUI the water looks great (like it should).
Also before the radar resource is added there are no problems with the water and everything looks great.
I have looked at the code but couldn't find it.
If someone could give me some pointers that would be great.

My code:
Clean build of TGE 1.5.2 and the MK (build 10) + radar resource

Drivers are up-to-date

#57 I've been out of the loop and did know about this new thread until today. =)

My 2 cents as an environment artist: I definitely prefer the 2nd version of the specular highlights, it seems a bit more subtle to me, and I like that it covers more area as it appears to 'fall off'. In this particular case, think it emphasizes the room much better by extending farther - backlighting the arches.

#58 Huh, I leave for a day and the thread explodes. Go figure.

@Stephan Bondier: Faster and better, yes. The MK now does all sorts of neat stuff behind the scenes to conserve VRAM and optimize rendering now.

@Jason: The autogen normal maps where NEVER meant for production use. They were meant to let you get up and running quickly, and possibly provide a base normal map to start modifying. So, plans for improvement: Replace them with your own already!

@Nikhil: Minimum requirements are a shader model 2.0 card (Radeon 9500/GeForce FX 5200+) with the latest drivers. Builds 1-8 could fall back to stock TGE rendering on older cards, starting with build 9 this was removed to allow more aggressive features, such as the per texture materials which now back the latest shiny.

@Bryan: The MK works fine on anything so long as you update the drivers. Update the drivers. Update the drivers. Did I mention that you should update your drivers?

@Stephen Zepp: You wouldn't mind filling me in on the niche the MK fills? I always thought it was the "Want to see shiny stuff on my Mac" niche, but judging from my user base (80%+ Windows users) that doesn't seem to be it.

I think that covers everything...

#59 Yes, i know the autogens weren't set up for that. I'm still having issue with replacement, sometimes they work, sometimes not. The best solution i could come up with is a console variable to tie them together.

I think that your aim for shiny stuff on the mac is a good one. The mac gaming world is getting bigger and it's about time devs start stepping up to the plate.

#60 @Jason: I did a quick check with replacing the autogen normal maps with a different one and didn't have any issues.


Completely different normal map, no issues loading it. So I'm not sure what trouble you're running up against.