Is Torque what my dev team needs?
by Edward Darrington · in Torque Game Engine · 06/22/2007 (6:50 am) · 16 replies
I'm looking for an artist-friendly 3d game engine.
Now, I've read plenty of posts where 15-year-old kids say they want to build a Half-Life 2 beater without any programming. I'm not that ignorant, believe me.
First, I am a multimedia producer and am an expert in Lightwave 3D and other similar applications. I've gotten together a small team (modelers, musicians, testers, and a sci-fi novelist) in an effort to build a short game. It's just in the beginning stages and we're looking for the proper game engine.
What the game is NOT:
- a complex game
- a Far Cry beater
- a spectacular tech expo
What the game IS:
- A first-person shooter
- Realistic (max of 2 weapons carryable for instance)
- Storyline driven instead of explosion driven
We're not afraid of scripting but we really don't want to program. Price isn't an issue (up to a certain point - we can't license Unreal Engine 3). We've looked at various SDKs and engines and, knowing in advance someone will say "learn to code the game", is Torque what we're looking for?
I do have 2 questions:
1. Are there prefabs built into Torque with everyday objects so we don't have to mess with modeling them?
2. What graphics quality would you consider Torque (with the Shader Engine) to be, relative to a well-known game like Half-Life, Far Cry, Unreal 2, etc.?
Thanks!
Company website:
http://www.klardesign.com
Now, I've read plenty of posts where 15-year-old kids say they want to build a Half-Life 2 beater without any programming. I'm not that ignorant, believe me.
First, I am a multimedia producer and am an expert in Lightwave 3D and other similar applications. I've gotten together a small team (modelers, musicians, testers, and a sci-fi novelist) in an effort to build a short game. It's just in the beginning stages and we're looking for the proper game engine.
What the game is NOT:
- a complex game
- a Far Cry beater
- a spectacular tech expo
What the game IS:
- A first-person shooter
- Realistic (max of 2 weapons carryable for instance)
- Storyline driven instead of explosion driven
We're not afraid of scripting but we really don't want to program. Price isn't an issue (up to a certain point - we can't license Unreal Engine 3). We've looked at various SDKs and engines and, knowing in advance someone will say "learn to code the game", is Torque what we're looking for?
I do have 2 questions:
1. Are there prefabs built into Torque with everyday objects so we don't have to mess with modeling them?
2. What graphics quality would you consider Torque (with the Shader Engine) to be, relative to a well-known game like Half-Life, Far Cry, Unreal 2, etc.?
Thanks!
Company website:
http://www.klardesign.com
#2
06/22/2007 (7:04 am)
Dreamlords is built on the shader version of Torque, so you might want to take a look at its screenshots and see if it is what you want. 
#3
Both of these games are highly specialized in what they do, especially so Doom 3 which is a indoors renderer with some pretty nice lighting - which TGEA doesn't have.
06/22/2007 (7:20 am)
I wouldn't trust anyone saying TGEA is like Doom 3 or HL2. Take it with a grain of salt.Both of these games are highly specialized in what they do, especially so Doom 3 which is a indoors renderer with some pretty nice lighting - which TGEA doesn't have.
#4
You will need to add AI toTorque. A good resource is AIGuard, very easy to add but you will need to compile the engine. Another good AI if looking for animals to attack or run around is 3DD-Leopard by 3D-Diggers. Well worth the money.
06/22/2007 (7:46 am)
1. There is alot packs out you can buy to add objects to Torque if you dont want to model.You will need to add AI toTorque. A good resource is AIGuard, very easy to add but you will need to compile the engine. Another good AI if looking for animals to attack or run around is 3DD-Leopard by 3D-Diggers. Well worth the money.
#5
It is more than capable of producing graphics comparable to Doom 3, so long as you have the high resolution textures and models.
To answer the prefab question, the engine comes with a small amount of starter assets you can use to get your game prototype off the ground, and there are more than enough content packs your team can purchase to slap in your game to bring it to completion, not to mention the free Constructor you can use to make your interiors.
I like your focused direction and scope so far, and I believe Torque is suitable for any small team, so long as you have the time to put into learning the engine, the script system, and so on.
06/22/2007 (7:46 am)
While not an interior-renderer-driven engine, you can have games that are completely indoors and the TLK (Torque Lighting Kit)system found in both TGE 1.5 and TGEA is fantastic and is more than capable of delivering Doom 3 lighting.It is more than capable of producing graphics comparable to Doom 3, so long as you have the high resolution textures and models.
To answer the prefab question, the engine comes with a small amount of starter assets you can use to get your game prototype off the ground, and there are more than enough content packs your team can purchase to slap in your game to bring it to completion, not to mention the free Constructor you can use to make your interiors.
I like your focused direction and scope so far, and I believe Torque is suitable for any small team, so long as you have the time to put into learning the engine, the script system, and so on.
#6
06/22/2007 (8:27 am)
Doom 3 uses some nifty per pixel lighting, radiosity, ambient lighting/occlusion, parallax mapping, stencil shadows, penumbral soft shadows and a very advanced portal and zoning system etc - none of which is available in TGE/TGEA out of the box. I'd have to politely disagree with the statement that "both TGE 1.5 and TGEA are more than capable of delivering Doom 3 lighting". It simply isn't true, regardless of texture and mesh quality.
#7
On the other hand, for a team that doesn't want to program, this wouldn't be fun to implement
06/22/2007 (8:30 am)
Good point Tim. I do know, though, per pixel lighting, parallax mapping, stencil shodows and ambient lighting/occlusion would take less than week to get into TGEA. It would take a few touch-ups, that's for sure...but if my old team's "from scratch" educational project could do it, I don't see why TGEA couldn't.On the other hand, for a team that doesn't want to program, this wouldn't be fun to implement
#8
If that were the case, they'd be in TGEA right now! IIRC stencil shadows were going to be the primary method of shadowing in TGEA; it was even listed on the milestone page.
Commercial vendors take months, sometimes years to implement those features properly.
06/22/2007 (8:43 am)
I don't think a decent, thorough, robust implementation of those features could be done in a week! If that were the case, they'd be in TGEA right now! IIRC stencil shadows were going to be the primary method of shadowing in TGEA; it was even listed on the milestone page.
Commercial vendors take months, sometimes years to implement those features properly.
#9
Doom 3 has no radiosity, no parallax mapping (but there is a mod), no penumbral soft shadows and no ambient occlusion.
06/22/2007 (9:18 am)
@TimDoom 3 has no radiosity, no parallax mapping (but there is a mod), no penumbral soft shadows and no ambient occlusion.
#10
06/22/2007 (10:41 am)
The parallax mapping, normal mapping and relief mapping can be added as a shaders in seconds.. and looks good as far as I can tell :)
#11
Here is another triplet of questions. After some research I'm getting closer to deciding upon Torque, however here they are:
1. I know that Torque can be compiled and developed on a PC. Does it have support for Macs as well?
2. Are NPC dialogue sequences easy to create (i.e. built into the GUI) or do they require coding?
3. The game is in a sort of post-apocalyptic setting. It is a simple, direct, 8-level game, set mostly outdoors, usually in city streets. Is Torque a good engine for this environment (there *is* an occasional factory/tunnel indoor scene)?
And as a matter of experience, how long of a development process is building a game in Torque compared to other similar game engines (Conitec A6, LawMaker, TrueVision3D)?
Thanks so much for the input!
06/22/2007 (11:48 am)
Thanks all, for the helpful input. Looks like I started a small graphics war by asking what commercial game it could be compared to...Here is another triplet of questions. After some research I'm getting closer to deciding upon Torque, however here they are:
1. I know that Torque can be compiled and developed on a PC. Does it have support for Macs as well?
2. Are NPC dialogue sequences easy to create (i.e. built into the GUI) or do they require coding?
3. The game is in a sort of post-apocalyptic setting. It is a simple, direct, 8-level game, set mostly outdoors, usually in city streets. Is Torque a good engine for this environment (there *is* an occasional factory/tunnel indoor scene)?
And as a matter of experience, how long of a development process is building a game in Torque compared to other similar game engines (Conitec A6, LawMaker, TrueVision3D)?
Thanks so much for the input!
#12
Another thing is:
Compatble with Quake (.map)
Coding is an absolute NEED, otherwise you just end up with a basic health and ammo system.
06/22/2007 (11:50 am)
Yes, TGE is very good to start with torque and stuff, people say "START WITH TGB!!!!!" but really...Another thing is:
Compatble with Quake (.map)
Coding is an absolute NEED, otherwise you just end up with a basic health and ammo system.
#13
Re: code ... whilst anyone can learn scripting, unless you're doing something extremely basic, you will need to write some C++ code. If you don't have a programmer, then you can always contract someone who knows Torque to fill in those gaps for you. In fact, that is likely the fastest way to get things done. You could also take the same approach for the art pipeline; contract someone to help you get up to speed.
T.
06/22/2007 (12:11 pm)
Re: the art thing ... all engines look only as good as the artists that make the art for them. A decent artist can make TGE or TGEA (or anything else) look absolutely stunning, whereas the best tech in the world won't make a crap artist's work look good.Re: code ... whilst anyone can learn scripting, unless you're doing something extremely basic, you will need to write some C++ code. If you don't have a programmer, then you can always contract someone who knows Torque to fill in those gaps for you. In fact, that is likely the fastest way to get things done. You could also take the same approach for the art pipeline; contract someone to help you get up to speed.
T.
#14
I would say torque's graphics are comparable to quake3's. understand that the engine is designed to be capable of running on the oldest of machines and videocards with consistent results. in fact, I believe it'll even run on some old voodoo cards. I believe this is why the rendering code is maintained at the lowest common denominator. tge doesn't even have shaders which is commonplace in all engines these days. tgea has shaders allowing for some cool effects but sadly the rendering quality really isn't much better than tge since they both use an identical lighting system.
06/22/2007 (1:09 pm)
Yes there are prefabs in torque, though probably not enough to make an entire game with but definitely enough to make a decent prototype.I would say torque's graphics are comparable to quake3's. understand that the engine is designed to be capable of running on the oldest of machines and videocards with consistent results. in fact, I believe it'll even run on some old voodoo cards. I believe this is why the rendering code is maintained at the lowest common denominator. tge doesn't even have shaders which is commonplace in all engines these days. tgea has shaders allowing for some cool effects but sadly the rendering quality really isn't much better than tge since they both use an identical lighting system.
#15
Say we start building our game using a simple FPS template. We want to swap out models of the weapons, so we build some models in Lightwave and export them to the proper format. To change the model out, does it require coding or is there a visual way of doing it? I do understand that to change the velocity, damage, etc., it would require tweaking the code.
Thanks -
06/22/2007 (2:54 pm)
Bear with me here as I'm not stellar with programming.Say we start building our game using a simple FPS template. We want to swap out models of the weapons, so we build some models in Lightwave and export them to the proper format. To change the model out, does it require coding or is there a visual way of doing it? I do understand that to change the velocity, damage, etc., it would require tweaking the code.
Thanks -
Torque Owner Chris "C2" Byars
Ion Productions
2. Doom 3, HL2, etc. Whatever you put into it is what you get out.