Shape with just 2600 faces is a framerate killer. Why?
by Frantisek Chmelar · in Artist Corner · 04/27/2007 (3:53 pm) · 6 replies
I created a shape with just 2600 faces and it drastically drops the framerate. I created a sphere with similar number of faces and the rendering is 4 times faster at least. What can be wrong with the first shape?
I got one clue:
The sphere's exporting log contains this:
7800 verts before joining verts
1429 verts after joining verts
2600 faces before stripping
Using quick and dirty stripping method.
150 strips with average length 19.74 (range 4 to 50) and 61 reversals
Results in 2751 cache misses
The other shape's log contains this:
7596 verts before joining verts
4027 verts after joining verts
2532 faces before stripping
Using quick and dirty stripping method.
1058 strips with average length 4.55 (range 3 to 17) and 163 reversals
Results in 4035 cache misses
Otherwise the both DTS have only one object using only one and the same material. So I guess the source of the problem have to be in somehow inaproriate geomery, that is badly optimized during the export. But what possibly did I wrong? And how can I fix it? What do I have to avoid during modeling to get "proper" geometry?
Anyone inquisitive and willing to help can get both shapes here: http://test.rakeingrass.com/shape_test.zip. Zip contains the shapes as DTS file and as a MAX file (ver. 8).
I got one clue:
The sphere's exporting log contains this:
7800 verts before joining verts
1429 verts after joining verts
2600 faces before stripping
Using quick and dirty stripping method.
150 strips with average length 19.74 (range 4 to 50) and 61 reversals
Results in 2751 cache misses
The other shape's log contains this:
7596 verts before joining verts
4027 verts after joining verts
2532 faces before stripping
Using quick and dirty stripping method.
1058 strips with average length 4.55 (range 3 to 17) and 163 reversals
Results in 4035 cache misses
Otherwise the both DTS have only one object using only one and the same material. So I guess the source of the problem have to be in somehow inaproriate geomery, that is badly optimized during the export. But what possibly did I wrong? And how can I fix it? What do I have to avoid during modeling to get "proper" geometry?
Anyone inquisitive and willing to help can get both shapes here: http://test.rakeingrass.com/shape_test.zip. Zip contains the shapes as DTS file and as a MAX file (ver. 8).
#2
Creating performant art models is in some ways different from creating beautiful models, and an understanding of how models are sent to the video card can be very useful. If you build your models with tri strips in mind, they will be by nature much more performant.
I'm not an artist so I can't give that point of view, but examining the two shapes in TST-Pro should give you a good visual feel of the differences.
05/01/2007 (9:37 am)
Posting a screenshot of the model in Show Tool, especially tr-stripping mode would help people do a quick analysis without having to download, unzip, and examine the object themselves, but if you look at the report carefully I think you could probably have a better feel:Creating performant art models is in some ways different from creating beautiful models, and an understanding of how models are sent to the video card can be very useful. If you build your models with tri strips in mind, they will be by nature much more performant.
I'm not an artist so I can't give that point of view, but examining the two shapes in TST-Pro should give you a good visual feel of the differences.
#3
I have made many a model with that high of a poly count.
Also, what else was in the scene? is this in the engine? What engine (Version and or TGE or TGEA)? What tool did you use to make it and what version of the exporter did you use.
The zip cant be downloaded.
05/01/2007 (9:45 am)
Yeah, i cant really comment until i see the shape in wire frame, or skin (texture) and wire frame.I have made many a model with that high of a poly count.
Also, what else was in the scene? is this in the engine? What engine (Version and or TGE or TGEA)? What tool did you use to make it and what version of the exporter did you use.
The zip cant be downloaded.
#4
I use 3DS Max 8 and tried two DTS exporters - old 0.900r-beta and v1.3 by Dark Industries (same results). Shape used in TGE 1.5.
The image of the shape is here: test.rakeingrass.com/torque/strips.jpg
I got some idea, what's wrong, from the related thread about strip creation in the DTS exporter. It's obvious, that object like village will always be very fragmentised in comparision to characters (although fragmentation of some parts of the shape is still beyond my understanding).
However, if there's almost no chance to create well optimized DTS with buildings (too many materials, sharp edges and complicated UV mapping), how to get such shapes into a game? Imagine any game with tiny but sophisticated buildings like Heroes of Might and Magic 5 and so. Has anyone any experience with real time strategies or similar genre? What's the best way to get many little buildings (trees etc.) on a scene watched from above with still reasonable performance?
05/01/2007 (3:03 pm)
Allyn: I don't know, why the link doesn't work for you :(. It works from here.I use 3DS Max 8 and tried two DTS exporters - old 0.900r-beta and v1.3 by Dark Industries (same results). Shape used in TGE 1.5.
The image of the shape is here: test.rakeingrass.com/torque/strips.jpg
I got some idea, what's wrong, from the related thread about strip creation in the DTS exporter. It's obvious, that object like village will always be very fragmentised in comparision to characters (although fragmentation of some parts of the shape is still beyond my understanding).
However, if there's almost no chance to create well optimized DTS with buildings (too many materials, sharp edges and complicated UV mapping), how to get such shapes into a game? Imagine any game with tiny but sophisticated buildings like Heroes of Might and Magic 5 and so. Has anyone any experience with real time strategies or similar genre? What's the best way to get many little buildings (trees etc.) on a scene watched from above with still reasonable performance?
#5
If so, its much more optimal to export each shape as individual DTS. You can put it all back together using the world editor.
OR, build an 'ground' mesh under all the parts, so they are actually connected together as ONE, not most optimal but should work if you need to export the village all as one mesh.
05/01/2007 (3:55 pm)
Are you trying to export everything in the above linked image as ONE shape? If so, its much more optimal to export each shape as individual DTS. You can put it all back together using the world editor.
OR, build an 'ground' mesh under all the parts, so they are actually connected together as ONE, not most optimal but should work if you need to export the village all as one mesh.
#6
Try changing your detail number to 2. Setting the detail level of any model at 1 means it never ever disappears.
Not 100% sure this is the crux of your issue but its a definite move in the right direction.
The lowest detail setting you should really use is 2.
05/01/2007 (3:56 pm)
Just downloaded the zip file Frantisek.Try changing your detail number to 2. Setting the detail level of any model at 1 means it never ever disappears.
Not 100% sure this is the crux of your issue but its a definite move in the right direction.
The lowest detail setting you should really use is 2.
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