New Framework release

#1 It seems to work fine for me...

#2 Same here.

#3 According to the docs, 1.0 refresh is compatible with 1.0, so it should just build for you.

#4 So, you still can't release a commercial game on PC with XNA.

#5 Yes you can and you have been able to before. They just needed GSE before, which is free and comes with the XNA framework.

Our first commercial XNA game is near completion (we're putting finishing touches on it) and will be out very, very soon.

#6 @Jonathon Stevens

The end user has to install Game Studio Express to play the game they buy made with XNA, right?

#7 @Jonathan: I'm curious as to what makes you think you can commercially sell an XNA 360 game directly to the end user without them being a member of Creators Club, and downloading GSE, XNA, and doing a build to their 360.

As far as I am aware, nothing has changed yet on that front?

Specifically from the readme:

Quote:
1.4.2. XNA Framework Redistributable
The runtime components for the XNA Framework are available as a redistributable to facilitate sharing the games that you develop using XNA Game Studio Express 1.0 Refresh. The XNA Framework Redistributable is available at the following location.

XNA Framework Redistributable
You may include this redistributable only with games developed using the released version of XNA Game Studio Express 1.0 Refresh. You may not include this redistributable with games developed using other versions of XNA Game Studio Express. Also, you may not include this redistributable with games for commercial distribution. For more information, see the end user license agreement (EULA) included with the redistributable.

This implies that they won't even let you use their XNA redistributable with a Windows commercial game actually...

#8 @Stephen Zepp

Yeah, i saw that too. not that the redistributable works, but that's beside the point.

#9 @Stephen - You guys gotta quit thinking about the 360 so much. =P Anton said:

Quote:So, you still can't release a commercial game on PC with XNA.

Key word there is on PC, not on 360. You can not sell a game for the 360, but you can for Windows PC, which is what my post was replying to.

There is a way around this however. You can sell the game for PC, include source and have a build that works on the 360 as a 'freebie'. Of course, you'll have to put in your own EULA that states the 360 build is for educational purposes only and not meant to be part of the commercial product, etc. etc. etc.


Edit: Oh, and you don't have to ship the redistributible with the game. You just include a link to download it and your legal.

#10 I was under the impression that this release of XNA GSE would come packaged with the TorqueX release (binaries only). Is this true? (I'm not at a place where I can install to test this out.)

#11 TorqueX was never to be included with XNA. What was to be included was TGBX with Creators Club membership. This wont happen as far as I know until TGBX/TorqueX has officially been released.

#12 Oh okay, thanks for clearing that up Jonathon.

#13 @Jonathon Stevens

But... the redistributible doesn't work. How does anyone get around that? I'm not anti-xna here. I'm waiting to use XNA and TorqueX when both are ready to be used.

#14 You don't need it to work because you can't distribute it anyway on a commercial game. You simply tell people the system requirements of your game which include GSE (which has the XNA framework in it).

#15 @Jonathon Stevens

OK. Like I said, XNA is NOT ready for commercial games. You can't expect end users to install an IDE to play a game.

Which really sucks because I LOVE XNA.

#16 Has anyone tried if this new release would fix the "You have to install GSE to run XNA games"-issue? I.e. it would be enough to have XNA redistributable and .NET 2.0 to run XNA/TorqueX-games. When I read about the "XNA refresh", I assumed this would be the point of the release. The fact that the eula prevents you to use it commercially is a bitch, but it would be a step forward in testing to not need .NET+VS+GSE+TX installed everywhere.

Matias

#17 Hi,

I read the EULA that comes with the GSE, and this part I think would be interesting to discuss

Quote:
a. Programs developed for the Windows platform
i. Distributable Code. The software contains code that you are permitted to distribute in programs you develop for the Windows platform only, if you comply with the terms below.
A. Right to Use and Distribute. The code files listed below are "Distributable Code."
* You may copy and distribute the file XNAFX_REDIST.MSI and permit distributors of your programs to copy and distribute the Distributable Code as part of those Windows platform programs.
B. Distribution Requirements. For any Distributable Code you distribute, you must
* add significant primary functionality to it in your programs;
* require distributors and external end users to agree to terms that protect it at least as much as this agreement;
* display your valid copyright notice on your programs; and
* indemnify, defend, and hold harmless Microsoft from any claims, including attorneys' fees, related to the distribution or use of your programs.
C. Distribution Restrictions. You may not
* alter any copyright, trademark or patent notice in the Distributable Code;
* use Microsoft's trademarks in your programs' names or in a way that suggests your programs come from or are endorsed by Microsoft;
* distribute Distributable Code to run on a platform other than the Windows platform;
* include Distributable Code in malicious, deceptive or unlawful programs; or
* modify or distribute the source code of any Distributable Code so that any part of it becomes subject to an Excluded License. An Excluded License is one that requires, as a condition of use, modification or distribution, that
* the code be disclosed or distributed in source code form; or
* others have the right to modify it.

So I understand that I can distribute XNAFX_REDIST.MSI with my windows game, I didn't test this file yet but it comes with the GSE.

Was this part changed in the refresh version of the framework? because if it was changed I will agree with Anton and this framework will be useless for the most people.

#18 I've been learning to use TX and XNA, but haven't looked at the commercial rules side of it, so my question might be a bit stupid. However, I was under the impression that we could create commercial games with GSE and XNA for Windows. I found this in the FAQ:

Q: Can I use the XNA Game Studio Express or XNA Framework to build a commercial Xbox 360 game?
A: XNA Game Studio Express lets you create Windows and now Xbox 360 console games much more easily. These games are limited to non-commercial scenarios for 360 titles created with XNA Game Studio Express. However, XNA Game Studio Express may be used to create commercial games which target Windows. We plan to release XNA Game Studio Professional next year which will allow developers to create commercial games for the Xbox 360 in addition to Windows.

Link to whole FAQ

Have I missed something there?

#19 @Anton - I would disagree as my commercial game is initially being targeted to Indie game developers as it comes with source code.

@Matias - They said a release coming up would not require GSE anymore, but I haven't verified if it was the refresh or the actual version 2 that's being tested atm.

@Apurva - Yes, you can LEGALLY make a commercial game with XNA/GSE. See above posts for reasons not to (which I don't necessarily agree with)

#20 @Jonathon Stevens

Nice. That works. I wish we could expect that for casual game players, cause right now XNA is so sweet to develop with.