New programmer needs advice please :)
by Race Rideout · in Technical Issues · 07/04/2002 (11:42 pm) · 15 replies
Hello,Im new to programming id like to be some sorda programmer when I get older because I like computers alot and I have work with computers for a long time. Im looking for advise on where I should start or witch computer laguage is the best language to learn? I have learned allitle VB from a cd a bought off cdlearning.com but it just teaches the basics and schoold doesnt teach programing. so that sucks. I would just like to know where to get started and what I need to learn to be a proggramer thanks.
#2
07/05/2002 (12:21 am)
Actually VB isn't too bad for starters.. but chances are you wont do real programming work with it. Most people that start out just create some buttons, add little code, and never work with modules, new classes etc.... so then indeed it can't be called a real programming language. However I did some real programming with it in the past.. speed was bad however, so I switched to C++ anyway, but still, I don't regret I know VB too (besides that I know Pascal too ... lol...now that's a sucky language heheh)
#3
None of this "I spent 10 hours and all I get is this junky console program that calculates some unimportant mathematical function? Screw this, I'm becoming a dentist!", since you can create some fairly nice looking things even if you were to just drop-kick the keyboard.
Of course, the downside to VB is that it promotes sloppy coding and dependance on things that will not be found (or be anywhere near as friendly) in C++.
So it's a double edged sword. Personally, I think that if you have messed with stuff like Q-Basic, ZZT or other "simple" programming languages/games then go straight for C/C++.
If this is your first actual excursion into programming, Visual Basic will ease you in at a much more friendly pace. Maybe Javascript if you don't have the money for Visual Studio.
07/05/2002 (4:07 am)
VB is nice because it builds self-esteem with coding.None of this "I spent 10 hours and all I get is this junky console program that calculates some unimportant mathematical function? Screw this, I'm becoming a dentist!", since you can create some fairly nice looking things even if you were to just drop-kick the keyboard.
Of course, the downside to VB is that it promotes sloppy coding and dependance on things that will not be found (or be anywhere near as friendly) in C++.
So it's a double edged sword. Personally, I think that if you have messed with stuff like Q-Basic, ZZT or other "simple" programming languages/games then go straight for C/C++.
If this is your first actual excursion into programming, Visual Basic will ease you in at a much more friendly pace. Maybe Javascript if you don't have the money for Visual Studio.
#4
07/05/2002 (8:16 pm)
Thanks alot for the information. Im going to try learning all of C++ instead of VB now. I have so many ideas for games i hope i remember them when i learn how to make them :) 
#5
It's a much more forgiving programming environment(garbage collection, lack of pointers), cross platform, viable in the marketplace, and the whole thing is free :)
www.python.org
-J
07/05/2002 (9:48 pm)
Python can be a much better starting place than C++. It is similar without so much to wade thru on the front end... both in terms of language and in tools (compiler errors, linker errors)It's a much more forgiving programming environment(garbage collection, lack of pointers), cross platform, viable in the marketplace, and the whole thing is free :)
www.python.org
-J
#6
If you want to program realtime 3D videogames professionally, yes you're probably going to be doing it in C/C++ for the forseeable future, but realisticly you're years away from that (at a minimum), so to start out with use any language you feel comfortable with that allows you to focus on the basic concepts.
I'd also add that if learning about the "boring" aspects of comp sci like math and data structures and algorithms doesn't interest you then game programming isn't for you. This may not apply to you (I see no reason to think it does), but you'd be surprised at how many people just want to 'program games' without messing with all that 'boring stuff'. But underneath, that 'boring stuff' (which of course is not boring to most of us here) is pretty much all there is pushing those pretty graphics.
07/06/2002 (11:19 pm)
The first piece of advice I'd give you is to automatically ignore anything said by someone who tells you that language X is bad and you should learn language Y. If you really want to be a great programmer some day, focus on learning basic concepts of computer science. Learn algorithms, data structures, different design/coding methodologies like obect-oriented, procedural and functional. Computer Science is bigger than any one language, and if you really understand the basic concepts you can pick up new languages in just weeks (or even days for some, ie C++ programmer learning Java..quite a simple jump).If you want to program realtime 3D videogames professionally, yes you're probably going to be doing it in C/C++ for the forseeable future, but realisticly you're years away from that (at a minimum), so to start out with use any language you feel comfortable with that allows you to focus on the basic concepts.
I'd also add that if learning about the "boring" aspects of comp sci like math and data structures and algorithms doesn't interest you then game programming isn't for you. This may not apply to you (I see no reason to think it does), but you'd be surprised at how many people just want to 'program games' without messing with all that 'boring stuff'. But underneath, that 'boring stuff' (which of course is not boring to most of us here) is pretty much all there is pushing those pretty graphics.
#7
07/10/2002 (9:38 am)
Is there anyway or web site I could go to so I could learn all thows computer sience things now instead of waiting to learn it in collage?
#8
07/10/2002 (10:23 am)
Quote:Is there anyway or web site I could go to so I could learn all thows computer sience things now instead of waiting to learn it in collage?www.barnesandnoble.com
#9
07/10/2002 (10:32 am)
@Ryan: LOL!! ;-)
#10
Charles Rivers Media :)
there are a million ways to learn programming.
self taught rocks if you can do it.
your best bet is a simple college course, over the summer.
or a personal tutor, self taught is hard because with programming more so than roofing you need a structured learning. so as to not miss and details.
So look for a tutor to show you the ropes if you cant afford a course.
07/10/2002 (11:16 am)
yea next youll send him to Charles Rivers Media :)
there are a million ways to learn programming.
self taught rocks if you can do it.
your best bet is a simple college course, over the summer.
or a personal tutor, self taught is hard because with programming more so than roofing you need a structured learning. so as to not miss and details.
So look for a tutor to show you the ropes if you cant afford a course.
#11
I would recommend learning C first.
C is the basis for alot of other programs. There is not much you cannot do in C. And once you get a good handle on C then going to C++ is easy once you cross over the Object oriented barrier.
Read and play with other peoples source code. There is enough free source code on the web.
C is alot older than C++ so you will find it preaty much standardized.
Try to avoid using 3rd party libraries when you are learning. They work great when you use them in production but they tend to cheat you when you use them for learning.
It is easier to jump around with compiliers and alot of compilers will make your life much easier. Except when you want ot do cross plattform stuff.
It is also wise to find and editor that you are comfortable using. I dont really like using IDE's because they have a tendency to tie me to one way of thinking. My wepon of choice is Xemacs/emacs because now I know and editor that I can install anyplace. And it works the same every place (windows-linux).
Linux is a great place to start because all of the tools are there and free. There is also tons of free documentation on the web for learning how to program under windows. When I learned C many moons ago I always had the problem that the book I was reading was using a certain development envirnment(Quick-C or Turbo-C). I wish that linux had been around then. I wish you luck.
07/20/2002 (1:45 am)
Here is my two cents worth.I would recommend learning C first.
C is the basis for alot of other programs. There is not much you cannot do in C. And once you get a good handle on C then going to C++ is easy once you cross over the Object oriented barrier.
Read and play with other peoples source code. There is enough free source code on the web.
C is alot older than C++ so you will find it preaty much standardized.
Try to avoid using 3rd party libraries when you are learning. They work great when you use them in production but they tend to cheat you when you use them for learning.
It is easier to jump around with compiliers and alot of compilers will make your life much easier. Except when you want ot do cross plattform stuff.
It is also wise to find and editor that you are comfortable using. I dont really like using IDE's because they have a tendency to tie me to one way of thinking. My wepon of choice is Xemacs/emacs because now I know and editor that I can install anyplace. And it works the same every place (windows-linux).
Linux is a great place to start because all of the tools are there and free. There is also tons of free documentation on the web for learning how to program under windows. When I learned C many moons ago I always had the problem that the book I was reading was using a certain development envirnment(Quick-C or Turbo-C). I wish that linux had been around then. I wish you luck.
#12
2. Basic teaches you bad habbits, if you think C is to hard to start with then start with pascal ( borland Delphi ) then later move to C/C++ ( Borland C++ Builder )
07/20/2002 (7:56 am)
1. Borland produckts rule over those crappy Visual shite from Micro$oft.2. Basic teaches you bad habbits, if you think C is to hard to start with then start with pascal ( borland Delphi ) then later move to C/C++ ( Borland C++ Builder )
#13
Also as Robert suggests I also think C is the best place to start. C can be as easy or complex as you want to go, and when you do go over to C++ you will have a really good head start, you will be able to see new and wonderful ways to use your C code.
Remember: keep at it, it is a long, but rewarding road.
Paul Gaynor
10/08/2002 (6:36 pm)
I recommend at starting with Linux for your journey. As Robert mentioned all of the tools you need are free, the operating system is free, and you will learn a good skill to have along the way. You don't have to wait for college to start your computer science. A tutor is a great way to go as well as summer/evening classes at a community college that anyone can take, even if they are not "in college" yet. Also as Robert suggests I also think C is the best place to start. C can be as easy or complex as you want to go, and when you do go over to C++ you will have a really good head start, you will be able to see new and wonderful ways to use your C code.
Remember: keep at it, it is a long, but rewarding road.
Paul Gaynor
#14
Don't believe me? I did a quick search on Monster for "Visual Basic" and got 2809 results ("VB" gets 2590). "C++" garnered 2477 ("C/C++" got 918 - you can't realistically search on "C").
Now, I'm not a VB cheerleader. I don't even use it, never have other than a couple of tests. And it's highly unlikely you'll have a successful career as a game developer solely as a VB programmer. But it IS likely you'll have a job (probably making frontends for databases), and that's what's going to pay your bills, so it's something to think about.
Bottom line - being multilingual can be of great benefit.
10/08/2002 (6:54 pm)
I'm going to be the odd voice out here. If you want a job doing "computer programming", Visual Basic is an excellent skill to have, at least right now.Don't believe me? I did a quick search on Monster for "Visual Basic" and got 2809 results ("VB" gets 2590). "C++" garnered 2477 ("C/C++" got 918 - you can't realistically search on "C").
Now, I'm not a VB cheerleader. I don't even use it, never have other than a couple of tests. And it's highly unlikely you'll have a successful career as a game developer solely as a VB programmer. But it IS likely you'll have a job (probably making frontends for databases), and that's what's going to pay your bills, so it's something to think about.
Bottom line - being multilingual can be of great benefit.
#15
10/08/2002 (7:10 pm)
*cough* old topic *cough* 
Torque Owner Ben Swanson
www.gametutorials.com - Everything from the very basics of C and C++ all the way up to using advanced OpenGL. Personally my favorite tutorial site. Has a bulliten board where you can post questions about the tutorials (or anything).
www.cprogramming.com - Beginner C++ tutorials.
www.cplusplus.com - C++ tutorial that describes the language from basics up to object oriented programming.
Good luck, you're gonna need it ;)