Going price for contracting a artist, level designer, and progra
by John Hsia · in General Discussion · 05/04/2001 (5:58 pm) · 7 replies
Whats the going rate these days to contract out an artist, level designer or programmer?
Art
A complete texture set for a level. Or price by per single texture, say 256x256.
Some sprite animated 2d images for a 2d type game.
A complete 2d level drawn in tiles, or 3d rendered backgrounds.
A 3d lowpoly model 600-2000 polygons + at most 100 frames of animation.
A complete level designed by a level designer, using tools such as UED, Q3radient..etc.
Programmer
progamming is kinda of tough, can someone fill me in on how a programmer is contracted, breaking up of the engine...etc. 2d or 3d game, don't matter.
That's about it, please answer them only if you gotten some contracting jobs before or you acutally contracted someone to do a job for you.
thanks
John
Art
A complete texture set for a level. Or price by per single texture, say 256x256.
Some sprite animated 2d images for a 2d type game.
A complete 2d level drawn in tiles, or 3d rendered backgrounds.
A 3d lowpoly model 600-2000 polygons + at most 100 frames of animation.
A complete level designed by a level designer, using tools such as UED, Q3radient..etc.
Programmer
progamming is kinda of tough, can someone fill me in on how a programmer is contracted, breaking up of the engine...etc. 2d or 3d game, don't matter.
That's about it, please answer them only if you gotten some contracting jobs before or you acutally contracted someone to do a job for you.
thanks
John
#2
In terms of contracting programmers, and i've been on both sides of the coin, the rate depends on the length of the contract and the difficulty of the work.
If you're contracting for a longer term, ie for several months, expect to play 1.5x to 3x what you would normally pay a full time employee of similar skill.
If it's a short term contract on a per hour or week basis. Expect to pay any where between $40 to upwards of $100+ an hour for experts. Also if you're contracting, get someone with experience there's no point paying big contract fees for someone who doesn't know what they're doing. A huge benifit of contracting is that you're able to employ someone of with skills that you would otherwise not be able to afford full time. Don't try to be stingy you're just throwing money away, its often worth paying the big fees for a professional.
If the costs seem high, remember that you're not just paying for the amount of time they do the work, you're paying for all the training required for them to do it. All pro-rated against the time they actually work for you. And that most contractors rarely are employed full time so any contracts they do, need cover their "costs" when they're not working.
Thomas
05/05/2001 (8:54 am)
$10 an hour?!?!In terms of contracting programmers, and i've been on both sides of the coin, the rate depends on the length of the contract and the difficulty of the work.
If you're contracting for a longer term, ie for several months, expect to play 1.5x to 3x what you would normally pay a full time employee of similar skill.
If it's a short term contract on a per hour or week basis. Expect to pay any where between $40 to upwards of $100+ an hour for experts. Also if you're contracting, get someone with experience there's no point paying big contract fees for someone who doesn't know what they're doing. A huge benifit of contracting is that you're able to employ someone of with skills that you would otherwise not be able to afford full time. Don't try to be stingy you're just throwing money away, its often worth paying the big fees for a professional.
If the costs seem high, remember that you're not just paying for the amount of time they do the work, you're paying for all the training required for them to do it. All pro-rated against the time they actually work for you. And that most contractors rarely are employed full time so any contracts they do, need cover their "costs" when they're not working.
Thomas
#3
Even converting a engine into something useable takes alot of time.
Hope this helps.
Doug EnkiSoftware Limited
05/05/2001 (8:58 am)
When doing contract programming work the lowest rate of pay (here in the UK, translated into dollars) is about $30 per hour. For less, you'll probably only get inexperienced programmers. The time taken to build a 3D game will depend on the experience of the programmer, but it's a considerable effort of many months at the least.Even converting a engine into something useable takes alot of time.
Hope this helps.
Doug EnkiSoftware Limited
#4
Going rates for technical folks are a LITTLE more structured (but almost as variable). Pick a big consulting company, I guarantee they are charging in the range of 150-350 and hour, but you never see the hourly rate, they just charge you 100k and call it a day. Fixed time, fixed price.
A GOOD way to get a feel for how much people charge in your neck of the woods, is to call a local head hunter, ask them, they might tell you how much they can sell your services for. Some will tell you that they can get you a contract for 35-75 dollars an hour, which means they are charging twice that.
I know what my salary is, and I know what the consulting company I work for charges for me. 2 WAY different numbers.
There is an axiom in consulting, whatever you are charging, double it. Just make sure you NOTICE when the client winces, so you can back down the price a bit ;)
Other than that, pick a number between 35 and 150 and hour. Then estimate how many hours of work it might take. If you've been doing it for a while, you have a pretty good idea how much time it will take. Do the math, then. It's probably a good idea to search the pay model websites and take an average, get a ball park. Then, negotiate. Find out the clients budget, and adjust accordingly (usually down, especially here :)).
My nickel again :)
05/05/2001 (9:40 am)
I have seen contracts range ALL over the place. The most variable has been the artists. I have had one artist estimate 1000 dollars and another estimate 10,000 for the same art. Just depends.Going rates for technical folks are a LITTLE more structured (but almost as variable). Pick a big consulting company, I guarantee they are charging in the range of 150-350 and hour, but you never see the hourly rate, they just charge you 100k and call it a day. Fixed time, fixed price.
A GOOD way to get a feel for how much people charge in your neck of the woods, is to call a local head hunter, ask them, they might tell you how much they can sell your services for. Some will tell you that they can get you a contract for 35-75 dollars an hour, which means they are charging twice that.
I know what my salary is, and I know what the consulting company I work for charges for me. 2 WAY different numbers.
There is an axiom in consulting, whatever you are charging, double it. Just make sure you NOTICE when the client winces, so you can back down the price a bit ;)
Other than that, pick a number between 35 and 150 and hour. Then estimate how many hours of work it might take. If you've been doing it for a while, you have a pretty good idea how much time it will take. Do the math, then. It's probably a good idea to search the pay model websites and take an average, get a ball park. Then, negotiate. Find out the clients budget, and adjust accordingly (usually down, especially here :)).
My nickel again :)
#5
>For less, you'll probably only get inexperienced programmers.
Quite possibly, or just desperate ones. =)
If the artist/programmer is good enough, its worth $100 an hour if you can afford it.
I've seen people who can do wonders in short ammounts of time... They are extremely valuable.
05/06/2001 (3:40 am)
Well, if you are talking highly skilled professionals and contract work with large companies, you can expect to pay a hell of a lot... I was meaning on smaller scale work for more like independent artists working in their spare time....>For less, you'll probably only get inexperienced programmers.
Quite possibly, or just desperate ones. =)
If the artist/programmer is good enough, its worth $100 an hour if you can afford it.
I've seen people who can do wonders in short ammounts of time... They are extremely valuable.
#6
We've had contractors that wrote monstrous, convoluted, UNCOMMENTED and just-plain-hideous code. Sure, the code worked as described... but in due time we simply had to rewrite it to be able to effectively maintain it. This more or less made the investment in a contractor a waste.
05/08/2001 (10:13 am)
For programmers, just be sure you clearly outline coding standards and practices. :-)We've had contractors that wrote monstrous, convoluted, UNCOMMENTED and just-plain-hideous code. Sure, the code worked as described... but in due time we simply had to rewrite it to be able to effectively maintain it. This more or less made the investment in a contractor a waste.
#7
3dsmax - $4000
Maya - $9000
Photoshop - $800
Deep Paint 3d - $600
Debabylizer Pro $600
etc etc
You probably already understand the cost of a machine that can handle this type of software, and costs of maintaining it.
For freelance/contract work I estimate at minimum of 30 bucks an hour (plus expenses), more or less depending on length of contract, rights granted, credits, time frame, quality of work needed. In addition more will be charged if outside help is required (sound guys for an avi for example).
Now the time to complete a job varies a lot. A 3d low poly model can take 1-40 hours depending upon what it is, and what is needed, like textures, animation, deformations, dynamic effects (such as bleeding, or hair blowing around in the wind), motion capture, lip synching, on and on. Some things which may sound simple can sometimes be the most complex and vise versa. Clients are often surprised at the time it takes to do one thing vs. another.
There is a guy who posts on this site who sells custom low-polygon models for around 60 bucks a pop. He claims to work for a large game company. I assume he is either very very fast; uses a basic model template and adjusts it to appear unique; or doesnt have any expenses.
A high poly human model, suitable for movie sequences, including fingernails, hair, lips etc for the model and texture I would estimate at 80 hours. (appr. 2400 bucks). Something composed of basic shapes would take much less time than an organic object. A simple building exterior for example, suitable for a movie sequence. Unless you wanted very very high detail (such as wires, power couplings, curtains and other objects in windows), could take 10-20 hours. A car would be akin to a human model if not a little more complex because of the numerous parts.
Big game companies would usually give their modellers around 2 weeks to finish a high poly model, and maybe a week to finish a low poly model.
You can cut down these costs by negotiating a few elements such as copyrights. If you don't need exclusive rights, then dont buy them. You can get one-time rights to art and the artists retains all other rights. Some artists may reduce the price if credit is given in a prominent place on the product, such as the cover of a game box (I know I would!). Other artists might charge less if you give them a LONG LONG time to complete the project. Not me, because I just want to get it done and get paid, hehe. Many artists (including myself) will expect at least a 30% advance of the entire cost. I usually ask for 50% to cover living expenses and such, unless the client is willing to pay in regular installments (in advance of course). Still others will work for a promissory note, or commision.
A BIG way to cut costs is to call an art school that has a computer animation program and have them ask students to apply. Most schools keep a file of jobs like this for the students to look through. A lot of students are on a shoestring budget, so they need the money anyway. Most of them probably have no idea what to charge you in the first place so dont take advantage of them, try to be fair. It could make you look bad in the long run. Students also have an incredible need to have work under their belt before they get out of school. This kind of work looks great on a resume. Also they have access to great equipment. Yes they are students, so dont expect them to be business savy, or speedy. But do expect them to have access to professionals who can help them.
Well I hope this helps :)
05/10/2001 (3:34 am)
Well not only are you paying for education, talent, and expertise, the freelancer also has to pay for expenses such as dental work, doctor bills etc. on their own, not to mention social security, and approximately double taxes that non-self-employed people pay. They must also provide and maintain their tools. As far as high end graphics here are some guesstimates on current software prices and such:3dsmax - $4000
Maya - $9000
Photoshop - $800
Deep Paint 3d - $600
Debabylizer Pro $600
etc etc
You probably already understand the cost of a machine that can handle this type of software, and costs of maintaining it.
For freelance/contract work I estimate at minimum of 30 bucks an hour (plus expenses), more or less depending on length of contract, rights granted, credits, time frame, quality of work needed. In addition more will be charged if outside help is required (sound guys for an avi for example).
Now the time to complete a job varies a lot. A 3d low poly model can take 1-40 hours depending upon what it is, and what is needed, like textures, animation, deformations, dynamic effects (such as bleeding, or hair blowing around in the wind), motion capture, lip synching, on and on. Some things which may sound simple can sometimes be the most complex and vise versa. Clients are often surprised at the time it takes to do one thing vs. another.
There is a guy who posts on this site who sells custom low-polygon models for around 60 bucks a pop. He claims to work for a large game company. I assume he is either very very fast; uses a basic model template and adjusts it to appear unique; or doesnt have any expenses.
A high poly human model, suitable for movie sequences, including fingernails, hair, lips etc for the model and texture I would estimate at 80 hours. (appr. 2400 bucks). Something composed of basic shapes would take much less time than an organic object. A simple building exterior for example, suitable for a movie sequence. Unless you wanted very very high detail (such as wires, power couplings, curtains and other objects in windows), could take 10-20 hours. A car would be akin to a human model if not a little more complex because of the numerous parts.
Big game companies would usually give their modellers around 2 weeks to finish a high poly model, and maybe a week to finish a low poly model.
You can cut down these costs by negotiating a few elements such as copyrights. If you don't need exclusive rights, then dont buy them. You can get one-time rights to art and the artists retains all other rights. Some artists may reduce the price if credit is given in a prominent place on the product, such as the cover of a game box (I know I would!). Other artists might charge less if you give them a LONG LONG time to complete the project. Not me, because I just want to get it done and get paid, hehe. Many artists (including myself) will expect at least a 30% advance of the entire cost. I usually ask for 50% to cover living expenses and such, unless the client is willing to pay in regular installments (in advance of course). Still others will work for a promissory note, or commision.
A BIG way to cut costs is to call an art school that has a computer animation program and have them ask students to apply. Most schools keep a file of jobs like this for the students to look through. A lot of students are on a shoestring budget, so they need the money anyway. Most of them probably have no idea what to charge you in the first place so dont take advantage of them, try to be fair. It could make you look bad in the long run. Students also have an incredible need to have work under their belt before they get out of school. This kind of work looks great on a resume. Also they have access to great equipment. Yes they are students, so dont expect them to be business savy, or speedy. But do expect them to have access to professionals who can help them.
Well I hope this helps :)
Chris Helms
To give you an idea, I wouldn't expect anything less than $10 an hour for each hour put into something, so, if you can guess the ammount of time it will take to make certain things...
Of course, thats just an idea.
Some people will start off with a work template they edit to create what you want, so they might charge who knows how much just for starting on the project, and maybe base it less on time.