Intellisense
by Scott Plante · in Torsion · 03/09/2007 (9:40 am) · 32 replies
Heya, the new version looks great, and i just bought it today ;)
however, there are a few 'niggling' things..
needs ctrl + space to show dropdown..
needs a 'commit' token instead of enter.. for example if i hit the '=' or '(' key, it really should fill out the rest of the member etc, instead of cutting it off..
needs parameterized argument list when filling out function..
i bought barry's (winmain software) code parsing/intellisense stuff before he closed down shop and am more than willing to send a working sample of what i'm talking about if it helps ;)
however, there are a few 'niggling' things..
needs ctrl + space to show dropdown..
needs a 'commit' token instead of enter.. for example if i hit the '=' or '(' key, it really should fill out the rest of the member etc, instead of cutting it off..
needs parameterized argument list when filling out function..
i bought barry's (winmain software) code parsing/intellisense stuff before he closed down shop and am more than willing to send a working sample of what i'm talking about if it helps ;)
#23
05/18/2007 (5:25 pm)
FYI. I'm gonna remove completion on ( in the next build... it was a bad idea. See this thread. 
#25
Im almost an adict of the ctrl+space, and the modern dropdowns and contextual ballons are more like an interactive-realtime-language/scope-help/reference than simple tooltips.
Honestly, Id LOVE to see it implemented in some Torque IDE, much better if it is in one with continuous work like Torsion.
Saying something about this little polemic: tools like eclipse ide has been coded for programmers with hi-profesional focus, for a long time. So if those people dedicate such incredible amount of work on the intellisense development, they prioritize it, then is out of the question: intellisense its a primary level tool. BUT (sorry for the cliche, there's always a catch), the thing is that they have years and years of development to the point of almost totally stabilize the platform; then, the experience show them the path of intellisense like the path to the holy grial.
Thats beacuse, I think, Is understable that such a young tool like Torsion is so 'incocent' in many aspects, and that dont mean it can be (in fact, IS) a well focused and promising platform.
Ill try the last beta and see the actual status.
A side note: Tom, the only thing I cant understand at all, its -For Heaven's Sake!- why dont you spend all of this enormous work on top of an already develped platform!! Why dont you used Eclipse? (and Eclipse is just an example); it accomplish all your requeriments (multiplatform, proven and stabilized, highly customizable, incredible intellisense, plugins system...) and without license problems (you can sell it if you want anyway).
Well thats all, hope to see your opinions about my innate madness :D
Edit: Spell check
08/01/2007 (8:46 pm)
If I can say an opinion (Im reasearching about Torque IDEs, Im not a Torsion owner -yet-), Im comming from the Eclipse/NetBeans world (java specially) where intellisense is a HUGE thing... and I must say, the difference when you try other tools is shocking (the visual studio nevertheless is good fine tunned too).Im almost an adict of the ctrl+space, and the modern dropdowns and contextual ballons are more like an interactive-realtime-language/scope-help/reference than simple tooltips.
Honestly, Id LOVE to see it implemented in some Torque IDE, much better if it is in one with continuous work like Torsion.
Saying something about this little polemic: tools like eclipse ide has been coded for programmers with hi-profesional focus, for a long time. So if those people dedicate such incredible amount of work on the intellisense development, they prioritize it, then is out of the question: intellisense its a primary level tool. BUT (sorry for the cliche, there's always a catch), the thing is that they have years and years of development to the point of almost totally stabilize the platform; then, the experience show them the path of intellisense like the path to the holy grial.
Thats beacuse, I think, Is understable that such a young tool like Torsion is so 'incocent' in many aspects, and that dont mean it can be (in fact, IS) a well focused and promising platform.
Ill try the last beta and see the actual status.
A side note: Tom, the only thing I cant understand at all, its -For Heaven's Sake!- why dont you spend all of this enormous work on top of an already develped platform!! Why dont you used Eclipse? (and Eclipse is just an example); it accomplish all your requeriments (multiplatform, proven and stabilized, highly customizable, incredible intellisense, plugins system...) and without license problems (you can sell it if you want anyway).
Well thats all, hope to see your opinions about my innate madness :D
Edit: Spell check
#26
It would be difficult to build a business model around a modified Eclipse aimed at Torque Developers.
Eclipse is published under the Eclipse Public License, which requires release of source code to any modifications they might make to Eclipse. Plugins don't need to be released, but I'd be very surprised if they could turn the unwieldy mess that is Eclipse into anything approaching the clean and simple Torsion IDE with just plugins.
Having to Open Source their project would essentially force them to have service based revenue, and Torque developers generally aren't the type to run out and purchase support contracts.
08/01/2007 (10:25 pm)
@Novak - I know you addressed this to Tom, but I'll put in my $0.02.It would be difficult to build a business model around a modified Eclipse aimed at Torque Developers.
Eclipse is published under the Eclipse Public License, which requires release of source code to any modifications they might make to Eclipse. Plugins don't need to be released, but I'd be very surprised if they could turn the unwieldy mess that is Eclipse into anything approaching the clean and simple Torsion IDE with just plugins.
Having to Open Source their project would essentially force them to have service based revenue, and Torque developers generally aren't the type to run out and purchase support contracts.
#27
Commercially speaking, using Eclipse to build such a tool, is a no-no. But I'm confident Sickhead and Tom are more than aware of the questions regarding Intellisense and that it will continue to grow in features and solutions. Intellisense is the weak point (again imho) of Torsion, but I have full faith in Tom and Torsion, even with the love/hate thingy. :)
I'd love to be able to build a project based intellisense database that would relate functions -> variables -> classes or that a %object = new t2dStaticSprite would always return the t2dStaticSprite methods when I was working with the %object variable, but hey until there's another and suitable IDE or Torsion evolves, I'll wait. No point in testing and using other IDEs for now.
08/02/2007 (2:55 am)
I agree with Ed and it's the only thing I disagree with Novak. I have a "love/hate" relation with Torsion regarding Intellisense. I used Eclipse for a some time but reverted to Torsion with TGB1.5 because of it's best feature (imho) which is a TorqueScript-Oriented-No-Hassel-User-Friendly Interface. I loved all I could do with Eclipse and the TorqueScript add-on that was created, but if you want ease of use and focused development, Torsion is the only one I know that offers it.Commercially speaking, using Eclipse to build such a tool, is a no-no. But I'm confident Sickhead and Tom are more than aware of the questions regarding Intellisense and that it will continue to grow in features and solutions. Intellisense is the weak point (again imho) of Torsion, but I have full faith in Tom and Torsion, even with the love/hate thingy. :)
I'd love to be able to build a project based intellisense database that would relate functions -> variables -> classes or that a %object = new t2dStaticSprite would always return the t2dStaticSprite methods when I was working with the %object variable, but hey until there's another and suitable IDE or Torsion evolves, I'll wait. No point in testing and using other IDEs for now.
#28
Nevertheless, I disagree with Ed about plugin capabilities, just beacuse Eclipse isnt such a "mess" if you read a little about the plugin architecture; AND take in consideration the time you invest on a total IDE development, that time applied to a plug-in can make miracles, and (I think) a better product in less time.
That said, the question about Eclipse was a side note, the main focus of my post remains about intellisense. Testing other IDEs, I agree for now, about Torsion as the more reliable, but I still sont test TorquEDIT.
PS: what is a "no-no"?
08/02/2007 (7:47 am)
Mhh yeah, I dont think about code-release problem of Eclipse-core.Nevertheless, I disagree with Ed about plugin capabilities, just beacuse Eclipse isnt such a "mess" if you read a little about the plugin architecture; AND take in consideration the time you invest on a total IDE development, that time applied to a plug-in can make miracles, and (I think) a better product in less time.
That said, the question about Eclipse was a side note, the main focus of my post remains about intellisense. Testing other IDEs, I agree for now, about Torsion as the more reliable, but I still sont test TorquEDIT.
PS: what is a "no-no"?
#29
My experience with Eclipse was something that was slow with a weird UI quirks... then i figured out it was written in Java which made perfect sense.
I have some big changes i want to make Torsion's ScriptSense feature, but i've not gotten the time to do it yet. The truth is Torsion's limited ScriptSense isn't a hindrance to shipping a game.... at least not anywhere as much as the lack of a stable debugger. So it was always a much lower priority to me.
08/03/2007 (6:19 pm)
I looked at extending other editors originally. I didn't want to make a new editor and deal with adding everyones pet feature... yet here i am. When i looked there wasn't a viable platform to extend that i didn't completely hate. My experience with Eclipse was something that was slow with a weird UI quirks... then i figured out it was written in Java which made perfect sense.
I have some big changes i want to make Torsion's ScriptSense feature, but i've not gotten the time to do it yet. The truth is Torsion's limited ScriptSense isn't a hindrance to shipping a game.... at least not anywhere as much as the lack of a stable debugger. So it was always a much lower priority to me.
#30
I disagree again, about insisting on calling the intellisense (or any part of it), "a pet feature".
On the other side, that UI layout of the eclipse isnt a whim. Its difficult to manage or understand for someone comming from a Microsoft product at the begining (like myself), but its -by far- better when you accustom to it.
08/03/2007 (6:54 pm)
I understand. Its perfecly obvious the priorization of the debugger over the editor, and by far, I think the debugger its your better contribution here. Hope to see news about the intellisense some day anyway.I disagree again, about insisting on calling the intellisense (or any part of it), "a pet feature".
On the other side, that UI layout of the eclipse isnt a whim. Its difficult to manage or understand for someone comming from a Microsoft product at the begining (like myself), but its -by far- better when you accustom to it.
#31
08/03/2007 (7:15 pm)
@Novack - I never called intellisense a pet feature... but ok... intellisense is a pet feature! ;)
#32
And that, without counting all the people talking on ths thread ;)
08/03/2007 (9:02 pm)
Ok, its a valid opinion. You must be a very special IDE developer, to desagree in that vision with Microsoft Dev Team, Eclipse Dev Team, and NetBeans Dev Team (Sun Microsystems), among others. And that, without counting all the people talking on ths thread ;)
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