TGB Trial problems, I'll pass on this product, here's why
by Eric Holsinger · in Torque Game Builder · 02/25/2007 (4:52 pm) · 7 replies
I think I have decided that TGB is not for me. Before I list what I did not like, here is what I do like:
The tutorials seem to be a pretty demonstration of the tool. The graphics are great and the demos are interesting.
TGB looks slick and I can't imagine how you would do the visual layout without it. I program in other languages for other reasons and I really appreciate a visual editor.
I like the idea of working with C++, so I keep looking at Torque from time to time.
OK, so here is what I don't like:
1) Image map files seem to drag the editor to near-halt on my machine.
I was following through the demos trying to give TGB a fair shake. I was really liking it until I got to the Fish Game demo.
After importing all the graphics, background, rocksfar, rocksnear, wave and fish images, the whole UI is bogged down and barely responsive.
If I click the Edit tab, things pick up but the refresh is still choppy.
If I click the Create tab, it's back to a crawl again.
Is the fish image map bogging down the UI? This seems like the only significant difference between the Fish Demo and the Fish Game, so far.
I have a laptop running Windows XP 2 on a 1.3 G processor with 512M ram. I'm evaluating the TGB 1.1.3 Demo.
2) UI doesn't resize, and it's too big by default
My laptop is 1680x1050 max; the TGB UI doesn't resize and is too big to see the bottom of the UI behind the Windows Task Bar. Trying to add dynamic fields on top of the issue described above was a pain.
3) Text fields are weird
When you tab into a text field, like when adding a dynamic field, the field value is not selected. You have to still select all the text.
Also, there is no fast way to enter 3 or 4 dynamic fields. You have to select the field name, select all the text, delete it or over-type it, tab to the value field, select all the text, delete or overtype all the text, then click the plus sign. Why not just hit enter or tab and go to a new field entry?
Speaking of which, it appears that you have to leave (tab, or click out of) a field for the value in the field to become permanent. If you enter a class name for an object and click save or run without leaving the field, the field value doesn't seem to take affect.
4) Where is the text editor?
This thing totally needs a text editor. I downloaded a trial of Torsion for the examples, but why in the world can't you edit everything in one tool? At least TGB should be able to open some system editor when you choose to edit the files.
5) Ok, no text editor, but close and reload to pick up script changes?
The need to close and reopen the whole editor to pick up changes to game.cs or new .cs files is a pain.
I really appreciate the tool and I see it for what it is, but I just can't bring my self to buy it given the problems above; I could live with some of them, but the performance problem after the image map was loaded was killer.
The tutorials seem to be a pretty demonstration of the tool. The graphics are great and the demos are interesting.
TGB looks slick and I can't imagine how you would do the visual layout without it. I program in other languages for other reasons and I really appreciate a visual editor.
I like the idea of working with C++, so I keep looking at Torque from time to time.
OK, so here is what I don't like:
1) Image map files seem to drag the editor to near-halt on my machine.
I was following through the demos trying to give TGB a fair shake. I was really liking it until I got to the Fish Game demo.
After importing all the graphics, background, rocksfar, rocksnear, wave and fish images, the whole UI is bogged down and barely responsive.
If I click the Edit tab, things pick up but the refresh is still choppy.
If I click the Create tab, it's back to a crawl again.
Is the fish image map bogging down the UI? This seems like the only significant difference between the Fish Demo and the Fish Game, so far.
I have a laptop running Windows XP 2 on a 1.3 G processor with 512M ram. I'm evaluating the TGB 1.1.3 Demo.
2) UI doesn't resize, and it's too big by default
My laptop is 1680x1050 max; the TGB UI doesn't resize and is too big to see the bottom of the UI behind the Windows Task Bar. Trying to add dynamic fields on top of the issue described above was a pain.
3) Text fields are weird
When you tab into a text field, like when adding a dynamic field, the field value is not selected. You have to still select all the text.
Also, there is no fast way to enter 3 or 4 dynamic fields. You have to select the field name, select all the text, delete it or over-type it, tab to the value field, select all the text, delete or overtype all the text, then click the plus sign. Why not just hit enter or tab and go to a new field entry?
Speaking of which, it appears that you have to leave (tab, or click out of) a field for the value in the field to become permanent. If you enter a class name for an object and click save or run without leaving the field, the field value doesn't seem to take affect.
4) Where is the text editor?
This thing totally needs a text editor. I downloaded a trial of Torsion for the examples, but why in the world can't you edit everything in one tool? At least TGB should be able to open some system editor when you choose to edit the files.
5) Ok, no text editor, but close and reload to pick up script changes?
The need to close and reopen the whole editor to pick up changes to game.cs or new .cs files is a pain.
I really appreciate the tool and I see it for what it is, but I just can't bring my self to buy it given the problems above; I could live with some of them, but the performance problem after the image map was loaded was killer.
About the author
#2
02/25/2007 (8:34 pm)
I'm sorry you found TGB to be insufficient for your needs. I hope you'll consider checking back in the future for newer versions.
#3
I think TGB is worth exploring again. I keep coming back to Torque, but haven't found what I want, yet.
I work in Java web services world, and come from C++ and Perl. The level builder appeals because I would like to throw together some games to amuse myself and my friends, and spend more time playing with AI than UI.
I'll check back often. ;)
02/26/2007 (3:07 am)
Thanks, Thomas. I think TGB is worth exploring again. I keep coming back to Torque, but haven't found what I want, yet.
I work in Java web services world, and come from C++ and Perl. The level builder appeals because I would like to throw together some games to amuse myself and my friends, and spend more time playing with AI than UI.
I'll check back often. ;)
#4
03/24/2007 (8:41 am)
Like Eric, I keep poking me head back in too. But I'm waiting for the infinitely delayed Mac version of 1.1.3. Sigh.
#5
03/24/2007 (11:28 am)
@David: TGB and TGB Pro 1.1.3 are available for the Mac.
#6
Where is it please?
03/24/2007 (6:47 pm)
Really? Where? The home page for TGB still says it's in the works and the demo is still 1.1.1 (if you can download it at all -- right now you can't).Where is it please?
#7
Oh - there was a problem with the installer - I'll post how to fix it over here.
03/24/2007 (7:24 pm)
I just went to the TGB page and clicked the "Try it FREE for 30 Days!" link on the right. Then I went to the "Torque Game Builder - INDIE License" demo download and downloaded and ran the installer.Oh - there was a problem with the installer - I'll post how to fix it over here.
Torque Owner Thomas Buscaglia
2) You can change the size of the editor window in the settings dialog. This was initially done to limit window sizes to supported screen resolutions. In the next release (currently working in-house) you can resize the window by dragging the corner just like you'd expect.
3) Input fields save their changes when they lose focus or when you press enter. This was done so typing the values wasn't unnecessarily slow. It can be a little weird to get used to, but it becomes second nature. As for dynamic fields, I agree with you. Adam has made some changes to UI elements in the same vein, so there's a good chance the interface for dynamic fields will be revisited in the very near future.
4) The TGB editor is not an IDE. It's a level builder, a gui builder, etc. It would be nice to have an in-editor script interface, but so far, it's been fairly low priority. It definitely is something that we've discussed, but because there are free tools that allow you to edit text we haven't felt much pressure to spend resources developing a script editor.
5) You actually don't have to shut down the editor every time you make a script change. It depends entirely on where you are executing the scripts. If you put the exec commands at the top of game.cs (not in a function) they will be updated every time you run your game. There are a few exceptions to that rule, so for beginners we just suggest that they restart the editor every time they make a change. The main exception is datablock definitions. If you don't write them to overwrite themselves when they're executed, they can fail to update.