Limited forum access
by Aaron Goselin · in General Discussion · 02/11/2007 (6:16 am) · 36 replies
Could someone please explain to me why as a TGB Pro owner, I am blocked out of TGE forums? I can't see any logical reason for this, so I'm a little curious, and more than a little annoyed.
When I try to search the site for information on average out of say 10 posts I will have 4 that look perfect but I can't access, and 6 that have nothing to do with what I am searching for. If I am really lucky I will find my answer after searching through pages of posts...but usually the answer that I can't access is one of the first ones I see. This is very frustrating as it simply makes the learning process that much harder.
I'm sure there are quite a few things in TGE that aren't in TGB, but really, what am I going to do with any information about 3D stuff that isn't in my own engine? Are you afraid I'm going to code in my own 3D into TGB? I can assure you that would not be worth my time... :)
Anyway, I would really appreciate it if someone could explain it to me, or better yet change it so it isn't like this. Thanks.
When I try to search the site for information on average out of say 10 posts I will have 4 that look perfect but I can't access, and 6 that have nothing to do with what I am searching for. If I am really lucky I will find my answer after searching through pages of posts...but usually the answer that I can't access is one of the first ones I see. This is very frustrating as it simply makes the learning process that much harder.
I'm sure there are quite a few things in TGE that aren't in TGB, but really, what am I going to do with any information about 3D stuff that isn't in my own engine? Are you afraid I'm going to code in my own 3D into TGB? I can assure you that would not be worth my time... :)
Anyway, I would really appreciate it if someone could explain it to me, or better yet change it so it isn't like this. Thanks.
About the author
#22
I can understand why people don't tend to contribute much as well. The one tutorial thing I wrote on there took a long time to do, and while teaching is a great way to learn, it's still a lot of time I could have used to do work. Additionally, much of the code that I write could be used to teach with, but to share it I would have to spend a ton of time clearing out everything in there that I/my company owns, and then write a great big explanation for everything. While I'd love to help others, I have to make money, which means I have to actually work on my projects.
02/18/2007 (3:11 pm)
Heh I hate to say I have to laugh at TDN. I haven't checked it out much on the TGE/TGEA side yet, but for TGB you get a few good things on there and then massive gaps in between. It's a good idea, but unfortunately one that relies on people actually posting information (and well written information at that.)I can understand why people don't tend to contribute much as well. The one tutorial thing I wrote on there took a long time to do, and while teaching is a great way to learn, it's still a lot of time I could have used to do work. Additionally, much of the code that I write could be used to teach with, but to share it I would have to spend a ton of time clearing out everything in there that I/my company owns, and then write a great big explanation for everything. While I'd love to help others, I have to make money, which means I have to actually work on my projects.
#23
Plus, if the code is out there in the public for any pirate to download, why are legitimate SDK owners being punished by not being able to read from other forums?
The problem with hard writ documentation be it books TDN or what, is the Torque engine is constantly evolving. TDN have information that is already out of date. The forums are truly the only place to find up to date relevant information, and forums are cheap self updating easy to use, nearly always available.
I do not care to develop TGB games, and i do not plan on getting TSE until the day it works on Linux and MAC, not to mention my target computer spec is considered LOW END now days. I find it insulting that it is implied i should spend WAY extra money to be able to get over the hurtle of not running into information dead ends when searching the forums. I can not believe other people do not share my opinion on the mater.
02/18/2007 (6:06 pm)
Its not a matter of IF pirated copy's of Torque exist. Im trying to point out its a flawed reason to keep forums segregated. The people with pirated SDK's are still going to have pirated SDK's, at least GG would make a few bucks forcing the pirates to get a legal engine just to read information. That still do not give anyone rights to publish anything without a license to the SDK that is used, and im sure there are more then enough legal SDK owners that would turn in any none legal project- its not like its hard to spot the signature of a torque based game. Plus, if the code is out there in the public for any pirate to download, why are legitimate SDK owners being punished by not being able to read from other forums?
The problem with hard writ documentation be it books TDN or what, is the Torque engine is constantly evolving. TDN have information that is already out of date. The forums are truly the only place to find up to date relevant information, and forums are cheap self updating easy to use, nearly always available.
I do not care to develop TGB games, and i do not plan on getting TSE until the day it works on Linux and MAC, not to mention my target computer spec is considered LOW END now days. I find it insulting that it is implied i should spend WAY extra money to be able to get over the hurtle of not running into information dead ends when searching the forums. I can not believe other people do not share my opinion on the mater.
#24
I separation between the forums is not only safe but also makes sure that when people are talking about source related issues that the other people answering have access to it to be able to make an informed response.
02/18/2007 (7:06 pm)
Quote:well besides the whole communist partWell its a wonderfully nice idea :-), much nicer then capitalism.
I separation between the forums is not only safe but also makes sure that when people are talking about source related issues that the other people answering have access to it to be able to make an informed response.
#25
02/18/2007 (8:02 pm)
It's not GG's fault if someone posts in a different forum then you'd like. I think their current system is perfectly fine, and that if you really are developing a game, then a couple bucks more for TGB or TGEA shouldn't set you back too far if you plan on releasing the game. GG's greatest asset is their community, and merging all the forums together would only cause more problems for them.
#26
02/18/2007 (8:37 pm)
You can start a new thread asking about your subject too, somebody might even transcribe it for you.
#27
I agree with you for the most part, but I have an unfortunate habit of trying to see things from all sides. So I know that I feel that I'm right, and that I should have access to the engine I paid for, I also see that it may be difficult licensing several different game engines (a feat I have never accomplished myself.) I hate the fact that I had to buy TGEA just to try to get access to the other parts of the board (wether I will ever want to do a 3D project or not), but at least the engine isn't $500,000 or something :)
02/18/2007 (8:55 pm)
Quote:I can not believe other people do not share my opinion on the mater.
I agree with you for the most part, but I have an unfortunate habit of trying to see things from all sides. So I know that I feel that I'm right, and that I should have access to the engine I paid for, I also see that it may be difficult licensing several different game engines (a feat I have never accomplished myself.) I hate the fact that I had to buy TGEA just to try to get access to the other parts of the board (wether I will ever want to do a 3D project or not), but at least the engine isn't $500,000 or something :)
#28
Why not make it so no one can read any of the forums unless they own an SDK? One public forum and the rest private for SDK holders. IF 'GG's greatest asset is their community' , then i foresee a growing problem when they continue to add new SDK models to the mix, especially when each new SDK product is so closely related to each other. Soon the forums will be a useless place to gleam information in a timely fashion.
This is like saying a TRUE artist would buy every paint brush they see. Or any musician worth listing to should own all the musical instruments ever made.
In the end we are only a bunch of opinionated people with a similar goal, and at the least a shared desire to create computer games, And this have been my opinion on the matter.
02/18/2007 (11:59 pm)
I am still pondering the issue from multiple angles and cant seem to find the logic. Separate forums from each SDK seems logical on the surface. I have notice a slight misunderstanding in the last few posts, Quote:merging all the forums together would only cause more problems for them.Its not a merging of the forums, but a removing the individual SDK license requirements for viewing privileges.
Why not make it so no one can read any of the forums unless they own an SDK? One public forum and the rest private for SDK holders. IF 'GG's greatest asset is their community' , then i foresee a growing problem when they continue to add new SDK models to the mix, especially when each new SDK product is so closely related to each other. Soon the forums will be a useless place to gleam information in a timely fashion.
Quote:if you really are developing a game, then a couple bucks more for TGB or TGEA shouldn't set you back
This is like saying a TRUE artist would buy every paint brush they see. Or any musician worth listing to should own all the musical instruments ever made.
In the end we are only a bunch of opinionated people with a similar goal, and at the least a shared desire to create computer games, And this have been my opinion on the matter.
#29
Yes, in my opinion this would be the right way to go. Only one public forum should exist, and that would be for non-licensee's to ask what the engine can do, etc. Every other forum should be accessable ONLY to people that own a license. The only thing that should differentiate licensee's is if they own the source code or not, and then have a forum for them that only pertains to modifying the source.
02/19/2007 (7:37 am)
Quote:Why not make it so no one can read any of the forums unless they own an SDK? One public forum and the rest private for SDK holders.
Yes, in my opinion this would be the right way to go. Only one public forum should exist, and that would be for non-licensee's to ask what the engine can do, etc. Every other forum should be accessable ONLY to people that own a license. The only thing that should differentiate licensee's is if they own the source code or not, and then have a forum for them that only pertains to modifying the source.
#30
And was anybody reading me when I typed "Post the question again"? Really, it's a forum for a product you own, you're not going to be hated for it.
02/19/2007 (2:20 pm)
No, it really, really isn't. That would lock out potential licensees from asking about and have assistance modifying the Demo as an evaluation, and other parts of peoples teams who aren't licensees (Artists, musicians) would be left out in the cold.And was anybody reading me when I typed "Post the question again"? Really, it's a forum for a product you own, you're not going to be hated for it.
#31
Aaron's suggestion do allow for a general public discussion, where potential licensees are able to discuss and ask questions.
02/19/2007 (2:57 pm)
Artists and musicians; other parts of peoples teams who aren't licensees, are locked out of any deeper information as it is NOW. Aaron's suggestion do allow for a general public discussion, where potential licensees are able to discuss and ask questions.
#32
Torque Art forums
Locked out? Don't forget the TDN will have public access when it's out of Beta too.
02/19/2007 (6:46 pm)
Quote:Artists and musicians; other parts of peoples teams who aren't licensees, are locked out of any deeper information as it is NOW.Torque Public forums
Torque Art forums
Locked out? Don't forget the TDN will have public access when it's out of Beta too.
Quote:where potential licensees are able to discuss and ask questions.They already have this forum too - Licensing
#33
02/19/2007 (7:32 pm)
Obvouisly, you feel like arguing, without comprehending the true discussion here. Good for you!
#35
You just seemed to be missing the full point. Yet you do make a point yourself, there is allot of good information available on the forums.
In all there have only been a few forum query's that have returned many unaccessible entrys. It just seems to me the last few weeks the frequency of finding information dead ends is on the rise. ALL in all I have been trying to point out how silly it seems for GG to need lock information pertaining to SDK's that one may not own, yet the information still pertains to the SDK that one do own.
I understand the argument about pirate copy's of different SDK's and the wish to make pirate game development as difficult as possible- but is it necessary to hamper legal SDK owners from the fear of a small percentage of not legal pirate SDK users?
The fact of the matter is there will always be some pirate activity out there, yet this private forums issue is not truly hurting them any. And removing the separate SDK forum access would be more help to legal SDK owners then a help to the pirates. After all, if the pirates are using the forums to glean information, would they not be easier to catch? And still im NOT proposing dropping the need of a SDK license to read the forums, just suggesting a better community base if it were not so difficult to find good information.
02/19/2007 (10:03 pm)
Well, my opinionated discussion is not about what forums ARE available, but more about what forums are NOT readily available.You just seemed to be missing the full point. Yet you do make a point yourself, there is allot of good information available on the forums.
In all there have only been a few forum query's that have returned many unaccessible entrys. It just seems to me the last few weeks the frequency of finding information dead ends is on the rise. ALL in all I have been trying to point out how silly it seems for GG to need lock information pertaining to SDK's that one may not own, yet the information still pertains to the SDK that one do own.
I understand the argument about pirate copy's of different SDK's and the wish to make pirate game development as difficult as possible- but is it necessary to hamper legal SDK owners from the fear of a small percentage of not legal pirate SDK users?
The fact of the matter is there will always be some pirate activity out there, yet this private forums issue is not truly hurting them any. And removing the separate SDK forum access would be more help to legal SDK owners then a help to the pirates. After all, if the pirates are using the forums to glean information, would they not be easier to catch? And still im NOT proposing dropping the need of a SDK license to read the forums, just suggesting a better community base if it were not so difficult to find good information.
#36
Anyway, sleep time.
02/20/2007 (6:46 pm)
Well I'm super tired so I can't add anything much to this discussion right now, but I am curious: What the **** happened to Elixer? Most times when I go to TDN to look at something I see a bit of text at the top saying something like "This information is only temporary and will be replaced by Elixer when it is finished...". That's not an exact copy, but from what I have read on the TDN page about Elixer (am I spelling that right? I can't see lol), it sounds fantastic. If done as stated I think it would be a large step in the right direction.Anyway, sleep time.
Torque 3D Owner iHugMedia
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