Massively Multiplayer Online/Offline Space RPG
by Scott Sievers · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 06/13/2002 (10:35 am) · 11 replies
Im willing to drop this Idea into anyones lap that has an interest in developing it.......
Ive been thinking about this Idea since I finally gave up Wolfensien and Doom. (Yes I was one of the freaks that Managed to LAN those games and have some Incredible fun!)
I still play Xwing vs Tie Fighter, freespace and freespace 2 Tachyon etc, oh, and Ultima Online etc
This game is a culmination of all of those and more,,,,,
What do you enjoy doing? have you spent HOURS painting your car in Nascar series of games? did you twiddle for hours modifying your weapons and paint scheme in Earthsiege and its offshoots?
Perhaps you spent MONTHS ( like I did) making halflife maps with Worlcraft?
Do you play Asherons call, everquest, Ultima Online? and find that the Crafting and setting up your vendor to sell the items you make and find is almost as fun as the fighting and skill gain?
Did you spend weeks in Alpha Centari? Sim City?
Did you find that playing Unreal Tournament was a blast? what about that skarg trap when the lights went out? yeah gave me an adreny rush too........
Did you like the effects in Freespace and freespace 2? Wicked explosions, could even see desbris flying off the ships when you shot them............
How about Dark Ages of Camelot? I loved the game, but got tired of it quickly, very quickly....Kill Kill Kill KIll DIE, Get rezzed, kill kill kill kill kill, DIE!!! Try to find a group for a dungeon, kill kill kill kill kill kill DIE, decide to try PVP, run forty miles DIE, run forty miles DIE, run forty miles, ACTUALLY MANAGE TO HIT A TROLL WITH YOUR SWORD!!! DIE,,,,, Bleh, try crafting, hmmm, not enough money, spent it all on armor, damn..........Give up
Go back and Play Xwing vs Tie Fighter for a few days, MUAHAHA havent lost my touch!!!!!!
Well, the idea I have, is a culmination of YEARS of thinking, even though I only have around twenty pages on paper. I Run an Ultima Offline shard at the moment and do all the scripting and troubleshooting for it..... But I want more MORE!!!!!!!
Culminate all the above games and you have a general Idea of my game. I have gotten input about it from pro's and novices and even friends, and get about ten to fifteen e-mails a month wanting to know if I'm making it yet..........
Well, I'm trying, but, learning C++ on your own time, (when I have the time) is a frustrating experiance to say the least....... I will get there, my primary purpose is not to make millions ( though that would be nice) it is to get this game available, I want to PLAY it, like I said, its a culmination of ALL the things I like to play.......Drop me an E-mail, and I'll send you what i have on paper,,,, meaning, what this game should include/ be capable of, Classes and skills, etc,,,, Player designable Stations and ships, Technology that can be discovered, developed, traded, improved upon.... Many Combat types with skill ratings, as well as the relaxing skill types, selling items found or developed, even selling your own skills, your own Capital ship! Your own planet?? your own space station? your own shipyard? did you say you liked designing things and building them? Save your credits, and build your own space station, design ships for the Good and Evil players, if your good, they'll line up at your space dock! seek and destroy, explore, Attack, defend, Modify AHHHHH!!!! oh, sorry, where was I? Oh did I mention Mining and resource collection? Tired after a hard day at work? Just want to take it easy? Dont go online, settle into one of your mining ships, trun off the AI, and go scan some interesting areas of your own realm, see what you can find... Collect Salvage after a battle! Repair damaged ships!!!!!!( for a price)
Blah, i could go on and ON!!!
Its all on paper, and I'll send it to ya if your interested, all I ask, is let me be involved in some way. ( though it will mostly be a learning experiance) I do own a Dual Athalon Processor Mother board with twin 1.53 gig athalon chips...... ( I use as My server machine) the other four machines are a 1.7 gig P4, a 600 mhz P3 and two 300 mhz P2's, yeah I built em myself, I know,,, time to upgrade the 300's..... And yeah, since I was there when Wolfy and Doom came out, I'm an OLD guy, but also dedicated to my games!!!!!!!
Send me an E-mail at ssievers1@attbi.com or ICQ me at 25630222. I work a LOT of hours, so good luck with ICQ.
Also if anyone knows where to get a Game Engine for a SPACE sim, let me know, most of em appear to be offshoots of Worldcraft for shooter games, I'd like to start out in space with this one, although, if you get shot down and land on a Hostile planet....... :) Luck!!! KP
Ive been thinking about this Idea since I finally gave up Wolfensien and Doom. (Yes I was one of the freaks that Managed to LAN those games and have some Incredible fun!)
I still play Xwing vs Tie Fighter, freespace and freespace 2 Tachyon etc, oh, and Ultima Online etc
This game is a culmination of all of those and more,,,,,
What do you enjoy doing? have you spent HOURS painting your car in Nascar series of games? did you twiddle for hours modifying your weapons and paint scheme in Earthsiege and its offshoots?
Perhaps you spent MONTHS ( like I did) making halflife maps with Worlcraft?
Do you play Asherons call, everquest, Ultima Online? and find that the Crafting and setting up your vendor to sell the items you make and find is almost as fun as the fighting and skill gain?
Did you spend weeks in Alpha Centari? Sim City?
Did you find that playing Unreal Tournament was a blast? what about that skarg trap when the lights went out? yeah gave me an adreny rush too........
Did you like the effects in Freespace and freespace 2? Wicked explosions, could even see desbris flying off the ships when you shot them............
How about Dark Ages of Camelot? I loved the game, but got tired of it quickly, very quickly....Kill Kill Kill KIll DIE, Get rezzed, kill kill kill kill kill, DIE!!! Try to find a group for a dungeon, kill kill kill kill kill kill DIE, decide to try PVP, run forty miles DIE, run forty miles DIE, run forty miles, ACTUALLY MANAGE TO HIT A TROLL WITH YOUR SWORD!!! DIE,,,,, Bleh, try crafting, hmmm, not enough money, spent it all on armor, damn..........Give up
Go back and Play Xwing vs Tie Fighter for a few days, MUAHAHA havent lost my touch!!!!!!
Well, the idea I have, is a culmination of YEARS of thinking, even though I only have around twenty pages on paper. I Run an Ultima Offline shard at the moment and do all the scripting and troubleshooting for it..... But I want more MORE!!!!!!!
Culminate all the above games and you have a general Idea of my game. I have gotten input about it from pro's and novices and even friends, and get about ten to fifteen e-mails a month wanting to know if I'm making it yet..........
Well, I'm trying, but, learning C++ on your own time, (when I have the time) is a frustrating experiance to say the least....... I will get there, my primary purpose is not to make millions ( though that would be nice) it is to get this game available, I want to PLAY it, like I said, its a culmination of ALL the things I like to play.......Drop me an E-mail, and I'll send you what i have on paper,,,, meaning, what this game should include/ be capable of, Classes and skills, etc,,,, Player designable Stations and ships, Technology that can be discovered, developed, traded, improved upon.... Many Combat types with skill ratings, as well as the relaxing skill types, selling items found or developed, even selling your own skills, your own Capital ship! Your own planet?? your own space station? your own shipyard? did you say you liked designing things and building them? Save your credits, and build your own space station, design ships for the Good and Evil players, if your good, they'll line up at your space dock! seek and destroy, explore, Attack, defend, Modify AHHHHH!!!! oh, sorry, where was I? Oh did I mention Mining and resource collection? Tired after a hard day at work? Just want to take it easy? Dont go online, settle into one of your mining ships, trun off the AI, and go scan some interesting areas of your own realm, see what you can find... Collect Salvage after a battle! Repair damaged ships!!!!!!( for a price)
Blah, i could go on and ON!!!
Its all on paper, and I'll send it to ya if your interested, all I ask, is let me be involved in some way. ( though it will mostly be a learning experiance) I do own a Dual Athalon Processor Mother board with twin 1.53 gig athalon chips...... ( I use as My server machine) the other four machines are a 1.7 gig P4, a 600 mhz P3 and two 300 mhz P2's, yeah I built em myself, I know,,, time to upgrade the 300's..... And yeah, since I was there when Wolfy and Doom came out, I'm an OLD guy, but also dedicated to my games!!!!!!!
Send me an E-mail at ssievers1@attbi.com or ICQ me at 25630222. I work a LOT of hours, so good luck with ICQ.
Also if anyone knows where to get a Game Engine for a SPACE sim, let me know, most of em appear to be offshoots of Worldcraft for shooter games, I'd like to start out in space with this one, although, if you get shot down and land on a Hostile planet....... :) Luck!!! KP
About the author
#2
Ill have to see if I cabn scrounge a copy of Homeworld, I liked it when i saw it, but never managed to convince myself to buy it, I'll have to check it out.......
Freelancer you say? I'll check that out too....
I really dont care how long it takes me to get this game done, except that I want to play it so badly :P If someone comes out with it first, it'll save me the trouble I guess......
Star wars Galaxies looks interesting also, though from what i can gather, its gonna just be a shooter/hack and slash at Ground level to start out, which will be.......A modern version of halflife and Dark ages of Camelot combined :( Although, one of the things I hated in DAoC was the time it took to get anywhere, looks like SWG is trying to add speeders atm, which would at least alieviate the 30 min runs from one end of the map to the other....
Supposedly they are going to add the Xwings and such at a later date??? need to go read it again I guess, ANywhooooo Thx for the Idea about Homeworld, I'll check it out !!!!! Scott
06/14/2002 (4:17 am)
Taking Notes..........Ill have to see if I cabn scrounge a copy of Homeworld, I liked it when i saw it, but never managed to convince myself to buy it, I'll have to check it out.......
Freelancer you say? I'll check that out too....
I really dont care how long it takes me to get this game done, except that I want to play it so badly :P If someone comes out with it first, it'll save me the trouble I guess......
Star wars Galaxies looks interesting also, though from what i can gather, its gonna just be a shooter/hack and slash at Ground level to start out, which will be.......A modern version of halflife and Dark ages of Camelot combined :( Although, one of the things I hated in DAoC was the time it took to get anywhere, looks like SWG is trying to add speeders atm, which would at least alieviate the 30 min runs from one end of the map to the other....
Supposedly they are going to add the Xwings and such at a later date??? need to go read it again I guess, ANywhooooo Thx for the Idea about Homeworld, I'll check it out !!!!! Scott
#3
You might want to check out Trade Wars: Dark Millenium. It sounds a lot like what you are aiming for. The official site appears to be down at the moment =(
Edit: It's back up now =)
06/14/2002 (7:42 am)
You can get Honeworld and it's sequel (Cataclysm) for about $10 apiece at Best Buy these days. Both are excellent games!You might want to check out Trade Wars: Dark Millenium. It sounds a lot like what you are aiming for. The official site appears to be down at the moment =(
Edit: It's back up now =)
#5
Problem lies within the genre - it is more or less niche genre, oriented to (more or less) hardcore gamers.
however, I was thinking - why such a burst of MMRPGs and such? it is cool, of course, but nowadays competition is too hard for the genre and needs much more investment than anything else.
IMHO - persistent worlds are not exactly indies niche now.
Just my 2 cents though.
06/19/2002 (4:31 am)
The truth is - Jumpgate ended up rather bad. Financially, I mean, in spite of massive MS marketing machine.Problem lies within the genre - it is more or less niche genre, oriented to (more or less) hardcore gamers.
however, I was thinking - why such a burst of MMRPGs and such? it is cool, of course, but nowadays competition is too hard for the genre and needs much more investment than anything else.
IMHO - persistent worlds are not exactly indies niche now.
Just my 2 cents though.
#6
I wanted to point out a game that was within the boundaries of the purpose of the thread. Of course it's a niche game, what massive multiplayer game isn't? For that matter, what FPS isn't? They're both hardcore gamer categories, appealing to gamers with distinct tastes in gameplay.
06/19/2002 (12:32 pm)
From what I hear from some old friends, Jumpgate's still running, and running well. I wouldn't call that financially bad. Ever played it? There really aren't any fancy new technologies or mind-blowing graphics, it's the gameplay that sucks you in. That might be one reason for the relatively small size of the community. Another reason is marketing--what's this mass marketing you speak of? I heard about JG on a forum somewhere, not from a magazine ad, billboard, banner ad, or anything of the sort. I saw it on the shelves once, too. For a handful of indie developers running a show out of their own pockets, that's no small feat. If I could do all that and break even, I'd be proud.I wanted to point out a game that was within the boundaries of the purpose of the thread. Of course it's a niche game, what massive multiplayer game isn't? For that matter, what FPS isn't? They're both hardcore gamer categories, appealing to gamers with distinct tastes in gameplay.
#7
First - the freedom. Why so many casual gamers leave the game alone after a while? because they cant beat some specific level or monster, delaying their progress. in MMRPG one can leave the tough guys at any moment and go anywhere else. I think this is also the reason of GTA3 phenomenon - cant beat the mission? - take your time beating pedestarians, steal car etc - even if you cant complete quest, you have plenty of things to do, and you can return to mission later with better weopons, car or brand new tactics. The same goes for MMRPG.
This is quite aside from the main thread, i apologize for that.
06/20/2002 (3:41 am)
Well,maybe youre right, i didnt really investigate JG marketing, taking for granted that MS=massive marketing, however, fact is - space simulators are hardcore by their nature and niche market, but i wouldnt call MMRPG a niche market. It is more casual by its nature than one could thought - I think (my 2 cents thou) that more or less social world is more appealing to casual and semi-casual gamer than single player-game.First - the freedom. Why so many casual gamers leave the game alone after a while? because they cant beat some specific level or monster, delaying their progress. in MMRPG one can leave the tough guys at any moment and go anywhere else. I think this is also the reason of GTA3 phenomenon - cant beat the mission? - take your time beating pedestarians, steal car etc - even if you cant complete quest, you have plenty of things to do, and you can return to mission later with better weopons, car or brand new tactics. The same goes for MMRPG.
This is quite aside from the main thread, i apologize for that.
#8
With an idea this grand and ambitious if you actually want it completed/worked on you need more than just a twenty page document. If none of these other games you find on the net (currently in development or otherwise) do not suit what you are looking; you must take a few steps to get people even more interested.
First re-write your 'wantings' in point format. Generalize everything. If you want thirty six weapons and you have fourteen written in your 'design' document, write it in point format of "Must have atleast thirty six weapons of". Write up a two to ten page of these 'requirements'.
After that is completed write up a document with flow charts of how to accomplish these requirements. Again only generalize, your team you come up with (if you do) will be able to fill in the details more clearly than you would single-handedly. With flow charts it allows people to visualize the order in which things happen, which makes designs easier to understand. Flow charting also forces you as the designer/producer to break apart the design into pieces. (Look up Flow Chart Applications on the net for some good free/shareware ones)
Once you have a functional design with flow processes labeled, it doesnt have to be perfect just understandable and complete enough for someone to follow, start creating more detailed design that you may already have in your twenty page document. Use the pieces created in the functional design to list the different documents you'll require for detailed design. At this point you dont need to worry about filling all the gaps in, that's why you get help.
Sorry for this long rant I'm just obsessive about planning and proper management, as anyone in the IRC channel is probably well aware of.
Waeric
06/20/2002 (12:03 pm)
Scott,With an idea this grand and ambitious if you actually want it completed/worked on you need more than just a twenty page document. If none of these other games you find on the net (currently in development or otherwise) do not suit what you are looking; you must take a few steps to get people even more interested.
First re-write your 'wantings' in point format. Generalize everything. If you want thirty six weapons and you have fourteen written in your 'design' document, write it in point format of "Must have atleast thirty six weapons of
After that is completed write up a document with flow charts of how to accomplish these requirements. Again only generalize, your team you come up with (if you do) will be able to fill in the details more clearly than you would single-handedly. With flow charts it allows people to visualize the order in which things happen, which makes designs easier to understand. Flow charting also forces you as the designer/producer to break apart the design into pieces. (Look up Flow Chart Applications on the net for some good free/shareware ones)
Once you have a functional design with flow processes labeled, it doesnt have to be perfect just understandable and complete enough for someone to follow, start creating more detailed design that you may already have in your twenty page document. Use the pieces created in the functional design to list the different documents you'll require for detailed design. At this point you dont need to worry about filling all the gaps in, that's why you get help.
Sorry for this long rant I'm just obsessive about planning and proper management, as anyone in the IRC channel is probably well aware of.
Waeric
#9
But i would like to see at least an attempt at such a project, if and when you, seriously start work on this project, please contact me about modeling resources, i know of a group of hardcore space ship modelers, (i am one myself) that modeled great addon ships for Starlancer.
But i would try something less ambitious at first, i have been considering a small demo of a space sim that allows for planetry combat and atmospheric combat, along with space combat, im sure torque could handle this type of scenario, in short a skybox or a terrain map, depending on the mission.
Rant Over
06/20/2002 (12:48 pm)
Do you have any idea how long Freelancer has been in development, what your describing, is a progect similar to that, so far they have been at it for 4 years, you might wish to take a look at Starlancer also, this is the prequal to Freelancer and is now over 2 years old, also a great game, i have to aggree that space sims are hardcore gaming enthusiasts ground.But i would like to see at least an attempt at such a project, if and when you, seriously start work on this project, please contact me about modeling resources, i know of a group of hardcore space ship modelers, (i am one myself) that modeled great addon ships for Starlancer.
But i would try something less ambitious at first, i have been considering a small demo of a space sim that allows for planetry combat and atmospheric combat, along with space combat, im sure torque could handle this type of scenario, in short a skybox or a terrain map, depending on the mission.
Rant Over
#10
I have broken down the Idea of the game in general terms on those twenty (21 actually) pages, the idea of progression is there, even using Hull AR rating to determine which weapons are available for Mounting, Reactor, or Power generator output determining what damage each weapon can do, you could have a Mega Shield generator, but if the reactor in yor ship is small, the shields would be less effective, on the opposite end, if you had a Mega reactor and a Cheap Shield generator, you may overload it and lose shields entirely, etc.
The Ideas are here, I just do not know What is possible in terms of diversity, theoreticaly, the combinations of weapons, technology and power sources could bring an Infinate number and variety of weapons into the game, however, that would be an Immence amount of work to implement........
I bought the Torque Engine, believing it was something it was not, I have a generic understanding of what I purchased now, and will eventually get it working, Time has greatly limited me, since, shortly after 9 11 My wife lost her six figure income because of a layoff, I am working 12/7 to make up for it now, and only take every other sunday off, she will eventually get a new job, and the pressure on me will lift, at which time, I can get back into it seriously, again.
I stopped myself, at 21 pages, to allow, (if there ever is one) the Dev team to work out the details as far as combinations and amounts of weapon types, armor types, ship types station types etc etc, and, the progression to gain each type of item, when, or at what skill level they can be gained/used etc..
The possablities are indeed Daunting to comprehend, However, it is the immence amount of combinations and modifications, that will KEEP people engrossed in the game, as well as all the other factors, such as type of play, (I.E.) Sneaking through Alien subteranian tunnels looking for loot, technology, Aliens etc (read first person shooter), Engauging in planetside wars in your Mech. (Read Mech Warrior), Setting up your Vendor to sell items you have found in Loot, or crafted yourself (Ultima Online and others) Disquising yourself (as an assasin) and sneaking up on some Criminal or famous person and ending their career! (temporarily) Joining ,massive fleets battling in space, getting shot down, and crashing on the surface of a hostile planet, using your wits, and your blaster to survive untill a buddy can sneak in and save you........
Building your own Hub, or space empire/City, designing your own ships and stations, and upgrading them as you gain credits and skills, Then defending your empre from those who would like to destry and loot it!
Yes, very, very ambitious, however, its targeted at such a wide variety of possabilities, and Gamer types, that I dont belive it would be nearly as "Niche" oriented as you may think, there would undoubtably be those that choose their "Niche" In game and remain there, but, the other possabilities are still there should they choose to use them.............
This would also, give the game a "permanant" Shelf life, as the items addable via patch, or CD would be limited only by the imagination.
Gah, Im getting long winded again.....Sorry :( So many ideas, so little time.
06/22/2002 (9:47 am)
Aye, I agree with all of you here, Unfortunately, my limitation are many and Diverse, (sounds like a backwords resume)I have broken down the Idea of the game in general terms on those twenty (21 actually) pages, the idea of progression is there, even using Hull AR rating to determine which weapons are available for Mounting, Reactor, or Power generator output determining what damage each weapon can do, you could have a Mega Shield generator, but if the reactor in yor ship is small, the shields would be less effective, on the opposite end, if you had a Mega reactor and a Cheap Shield generator, you may overload it and lose shields entirely, etc.
The Ideas are here, I just do not know What is possible in terms of diversity, theoreticaly, the combinations of weapons, technology and power sources could bring an Infinate number and variety of weapons into the game, however, that would be an Immence amount of work to implement........
I bought the Torque Engine, believing it was something it was not, I have a generic understanding of what I purchased now, and will eventually get it working, Time has greatly limited me, since, shortly after 9 11 My wife lost her six figure income because of a layoff, I am working 12/7 to make up for it now, and only take every other sunday off, she will eventually get a new job, and the pressure on me will lift, at which time, I can get back into it seriously, again.
I stopped myself, at 21 pages, to allow, (if there ever is one) the Dev team to work out the details as far as combinations and amounts of weapon types, armor types, ship types station types etc etc, and, the progression to gain each type of item, when, or at what skill level they can be gained/used etc..
The possablities are indeed Daunting to comprehend, However, it is the immence amount of combinations and modifications, that will KEEP people engrossed in the game, as well as all the other factors, such as type of play, (I.E.) Sneaking through Alien subteranian tunnels looking for loot, technology, Aliens etc (read first person shooter), Engauging in planetside wars in your Mech. (Read Mech Warrior), Setting up your Vendor to sell items you have found in Loot, or crafted yourself (Ultima Online and others) Disquising yourself (as an assasin) and sneaking up on some Criminal or famous person and ending their career! (temporarily) Joining ,massive fleets battling in space, getting shot down, and crashing on the surface of a hostile planet, using your wits, and your blaster to survive untill a buddy can sneak in and save you........
Building your own Hub, or space empire/City, designing your own ships and stations, and upgrading them as you gain credits and skills, Then defending your empre from those who would like to destry and loot it!
Yes, very, very ambitious, however, its targeted at such a wide variety of possabilities, and Gamer types, that I dont belive it would be nearly as "Niche" oriented as you may think, there would undoubtably be those that choose their "Niche" In game and remain there, but, the other possabilities are still there should they choose to use them.............
This would also, give the game a "permanant" Shelf life, as the items addable via patch, or CD would be limited only by the imagination.
Gah, Im getting long winded again.....Sorry :( So many ideas, so little time.
#11
www.hostilespace.com
-Blitz
07/02/2002 (1:53 pm)
Its probably not as grand as your idea, but it incorporates alot of sci-fi merged with traditional rpg concepts.www.hostilespace.com
-Blitz
Torque Owner Ian Roach
With games such as freelancer almost out soon i think they are attempting a similar idea to you. GO anywhere and do anything.
Personally the only RTS game to ever capture my attention (Normally i hate rts games was homeworld).
With a great story , brilliant music and awesome interface (to date have never seen a more streamlined controls in an rts) the game was pure class.
I think a homeworld esque game where ever person is there own pilot would own. You could have commanders on the mothership outlining what you can do but you dont have to take notice :)
The ability to land on any planet would also be an awesome idea.
Battlecruiser millenium attempts this but unfortunetly i think it fails miserably :)
But get an interface like homeworld in. Its a must.