Anyone want to design a combat-optional 2D MMO with...
by Mare Kuntz · in Jobs · 01/26/2007 (12:26 pm) · 5 replies
I've been trying out the various existing combat-optional or combatless MMOs (A Tale in the Desert, Gaia Online, Neopets, Second Life) and it seems like they are all pretty lacking in story. I'd like to try designing one which provides a stronger story experience for the player, more like Harvest Moon (an RPG/farming sim/dating sim hybrid). Not a linear story, but an interactive story where the player can build relationships with NPCs as well as building a house, acquiring cool clothes and accessories to build their avatar's unique appearance, crafting, possibly raising pets or crossbreeding animals and plants... there would be combat, but it would be presented as an optional mini-game, possibly a combination of an arena where you could fight other players and a hunting ground where you could fight monsters.
If anyone thinks this basic concept is interesting and wants to contribute ideas or anything, let me know. :)
If anyone thinks this basic concept is interesting and wants to contribute ideas or anything, let me know. :)
#2
In order for your idea to work you need to come up with a compelling and interesting world to be in. I was wondering if you were trying to make this game for the younger market or just an MMO for anyone that does not need combat to be good? I ask just because the way you craft the story for adults will be very different to the way it would work for younger ones. It could work but it would depend on the market you are aiming for.
If enough story and planning is put into a game. then the lack of combat would not be an issue. If you have something engrossing enough that people do not think about the lack of direct combat then you may be onto something. You may want a mix of Animal Crossing and Ragnarok Online maybe, since they both have a very cartoon style and it may work well to mix parts of each. The combat in Ragnarok is very cartoon but it is still combat in the end.
You mentioned mini-games instead of combat and that could work. Maybe play cards against them or some WarioWare style mini-games you have to play in order to beat the enemy/character. Maybe just answering questions in order to beat them may be the trick. This may suit the younger ones more than anything. This could be the first (I think, correct me if I am wrong) Edutainment MMO. Maths, coloring in, puzzle matching (BrainAge style)
I want to get into writing more and MMO/RPG is one area I would like to improve on. If you fancy chatting a bit more you can email me if you like. No rush. barrie@360monster.com
02/11/2007 (7:09 am)
I am guessing it would all depend on how you write the story. Many of the big popular MMO's are popular because of their back-story, even if most of them do revolve around combat. I was a big Ultima Online player because of the RP community and most of it was not really combat orientated, well, if you wanted to that is. In order for your idea to work you need to come up with a compelling and interesting world to be in. I was wondering if you were trying to make this game for the younger market or just an MMO for anyone that does not need combat to be good? I ask just because the way you craft the story for adults will be very different to the way it would work for younger ones. It could work but it would depend on the market you are aiming for.
If enough story and planning is put into a game. then the lack of combat would not be an issue. If you have something engrossing enough that people do not think about the lack of direct combat then you may be onto something. You may want a mix of Animal Crossing and Ragnarok Online maybe, since they both have a very cartoon style and it may work well to mix parts of each. The combat in Ragnarok is very cartoon but it is still combat in the end.
You mentioned mini-games instead of combat and that could work. Maybe play cards against them or some WarioWare style mini-games you have to play in order to beat the enemy/character. Maybe just answering questions in order to beat them may be the trick. This may suit the younger ones more than anything. This could be the first (I think, correct me if I am wrong) Edutainment MMO. Maths, coloring in, puzzle matching (BrainAge style)
I want to get into writing more and MMO/RPG is one area I would like to improve on. If you fancy chatting a bit more you can email me if you like. No rush. barrie@360monster.com
#3
It's interesting that you think the backstory is important - personally I have found it to not be important at all, the most important factors in attracting an audience seem to be whether a basic account is free, whether credit card info or a real ame are required to create an account, whether the graphics are pretty, whether PK is easy to avoid, and whether the game has other gameplay besides combat, in particular whether it has a friendly community that it's easy to become part of.
But here are some backstory possibilities I have considered, let me know your opinion:
- The player starts the game by hatching from an egg on a n00b island and has to progress from being a nestling to being a fledgling to leave the island. The island would have tutorial gameplay which taught players how to use the basic aspects of the game. One focus of crafting would be to create fabrics and dyes and assemble them into clothes with which to customize your character. Also the small cast of major NPCs would be introduced, and the player would continue to encounter them and build relationships with them throughout the rest of the game. The overall 'plot' of the game would be that of growing up and finding romance and destiny (this kind of story is called a bildungsroman). There would probably be races or countries with different philosophies that the player could join one of.
- The player starts the game as a human who has just been taken to a mysterious alien or magical school where they begin learning to use a special ability. Diceless roleplay would be strongly encouraged, and there would be alien puzzles to understand ala Myst, and alien NPCs to build relationships with. This would be more of a soap-operaish game, with modular plots about themes of bullying, kidnapping, an alien holiday (such as valentine's day), etc. and the overall theme would be going native - a maxed out character would become one of the aliens.
- The player would find themself mysteriously marooned in a strange place. The goal of the game would be finding out who put you there and why, so it would be more of a mystery-investigation game - building relationships with the NPCs would be one way to get clues, as would solving puzzles. The gameplay would focus on building up technology from nothing but what could be gathered in the world - this would be somewhat like Harvest Moon (similar to Animal crossing but starts the player with a weedy abandoned farm which they must improve.)
Really these are all the same game, they just have 3 different themes: animalistic, school, and marooning/survival.
02/11/2007 (11:28 am)
I'm mostly interested in the 18+ market, although I think it would be great to have an NC17 server which allowed swearing and sexual roleplay, and a PG-13 server with no swearing or sexual content, so users could pic which environment they preferred.It's interesting that you think the backstory is important - personally I have found it to not be important at all, the most important factors in attracting an audience seem to be whether a basic account is free, whether credit card info or a real ame are required to create an account, whether the graphics are pretty, whether PK is easy to avoid, and whether the game has other gameplay besides combat, in particular whether it has a friendly community that it's easy to become part of.
But here are some backstory possibilities I have considered, let me know your opinion:
- The player starts the game by hatching from an egg on a n00b island and has to progress from being a nestling to being a fledgling to leave the island. The island would have tutorial gameplay which taught players how to use the basic aspects of the game. One focus of crafting would be to create fabrics and dyes and assemble them into clothes with which to customize your character. Also the small cast of major NPCs would be introduced, and the player would continue to encounter them and build relationships with them throughout the rest of the game. The overall 'plot' of the game would be that of growing up and finding romance and destiny (this kind of story is called a bildungsroman). There would probably be races or countries with different philosophies that the player could join one of.
- The player starts the game as a human who has just been taken to a mysterious alien or magical school where they begin learning to use a special ability. Diceless roleplay would be strongly encouraged, and there would be alien puzzles to understand ala Myst, and alien NPCs to build relationships with. This would be more of a soap-operaish game, with modular plots about themes of bullying, kidnapping, an alien holiday (such as valentine's day), etc. and the overall theme would be going native - a maxed out character would become one of the aliens.
- The player would find themself mysteriously marooned in a strange place. The goal of the game would be finding out who put you there and why, so it would be more of a mystery-investigation game - building relationships with the NPCs would be one way to get clues, as would solving puzzles. The gameplay would focus on building up technology from nothing but what could be gathered in the world - this would be somewhat like Harvest Moon (similar to Animal crossing but starts the player with a weedy abandoned farm which they must improve.)
Really these are all the same game, they just have 3 different themes: animalistic, school, and marooning/survival.
#4
The free-trial helps do a number of things, it weeds out those people who are not interested in "playing" and are more interested in "playing a free game" ... "freebie hunters" usually don't get into the game as much as the people who pay for it ...
Anyhow ... if the game was free, that'd be great ...
As for the "lack of combat", I don't believe any "decent" RP community would survive without some form of combat ... Player Killing usually sucks, but combat arena's in towns are fun ... questing with friends is fun as well ... if you could somehow build an RPG story that eliminate combat, and was still able to engross a large community ... I'd be very impressed, and I'd even play it ;)
02/11/2007 (2:09 pm)
@Mare, most of your hard-core RP's research the back-story before even looking at other aspects ... the free account, real name, etc aspects you mentioned only really affect those people who are more interested in "getting into a game" and not really "playing the game" ... if the game is good, the story is good, and the community is good ... such details would be irrelevant ... I know of a few large RP communities where you pay a low monthly cost ($5-15) to play the game ... download the game itself for free ... and even have a 1-3 month "free trial" to test the game out ... (they are so confident that there game is good, and will engross you ... they let you play for free ... for a while)The free-trial helps do a number of things, it weeds out those people who are not interested in "playing" and are more interested in "playing a free game" ... "freebie hunters" usually don't get into the game as much as the people who pay for it ...
Anyhow ... if the game was free, that'd be great ...
As for the "lack of combat", I don't believe any "decent" RP community would survive without some form of combat ... Player Killing usually sucks, but combat arena's in towns are fun ... questing with friends is fun as well ... if you could somehow build an RPG story that eliminate combat, and was still able to engross a large community ... I'd be very impressed, and I'd even play it ;)
#5
As I understand it there is a natural turnover in MMORPGs - most players play energetically for 1-2 years, then when they've explored all the game has to offer they get bored and find a different game to play. Making the game free to try or free to play with a basic account, as well as graphically and conceptually appealing, are important parts of getting people to try the game in the first place; making sure the game itself isn't all boring grind and confusing to noobs is the only way to keep people playing the game beyond the first few days; and releasing new content regularly is the standard way to try to keep players as long as possible. Personally, half the MMOs I try aren't even worth playing, much less paying for.
As for the lack of combat - my project would have optional combat, which basically means the player can choose to enter a hunting ground or dungeon to fight monsters, enter the arena to fight other players, or stay out of both and still have plenty of game to play. But A Tale In the Desert is, I believe, an example of an existing MMO which has no combat yet has a good community.
02/12/2007 (1:52 pm)
I don't really understand the difference between 'playing the game' and 'getting into the game'. And is there a particular reason to cater to 'hardcore RPs'? I'm interested in creating a community which is friendly to 18-40 year olds who want to escape their lives and participate in an interactive fantasy world which is easy to get immersed in and provides socialization, romance, adventure, and praise for their accomplishments which may be missing in the players' real lives. I can't go into more detail than that because it's edging toward the part of the design which is unique and which I want to retain copyright to, so I'd only discuss it with someone who wanted to team up with me to develop this design.As I understand it there is a natural turnover in MMORPGs - most players play energetically for 1-2 years, then when they've explored all the game has to offer they get bored and find a different game to play. Making the game free to try or free to play with a basic account, as well as graphically and conceptually appealing, are important parts of getting people to try the game in the first place; making sure the game itself isn't all boring grind and confusing to noobs is the only way to keep people playing the game beyond the first few days; and releasing new content regularly is the standard way to try to keep players as long as possible. Personally, half the MMOs I try aren't even worth playing, much less paying for.
As for the lack of combat - my project would have optional combat, which basically means the player can choose to enter a hunting ground or dungeon to fight monsters, enter the arena to fight other players, or stay out of both and still have plenty of game to play. But A Tale In the Desert is, I believe, an example of an existing MMO which has no combat yet has a good community.
Torque Owner Infinitum3D
I have a young son and I've been trying to find a non-violent RPG that would appeal to younger players as well as teens and adults.
My wife and son enjoy Disney's Toontown Online, but even that has combat (albeit cartoony and slapstick).
I would suggest a game that involves exploration, scavenger hunts, solving mysteries, and helping others complete tasks through teamwork.
Just my 2 cents. Good luck!
Tony
ps. Thanks for the mention of A Tale in the Desert, Gaia Online, Neopets, and Second Life. I'll check them out.