Lighting problems - light leaks?
by Andy Hawkins · in Artist Corner · 11/27/2006 (10:06 pm) · 13 replies
I have a simple hallway made of 2 prefabs, a 4 way intersection and a straight. I have portals at all ends, but the lighting seems wrong like light is leaking in from outside - I have zoomed in on the joins and they seem tight. Any suggestions on how to fix this?
#2
1. If you have a null texture applied to the hidden edges of your wall brushes change those to something that's visible and darker than the grey texture used on the floor. Sometimes light leaks are produced when contrast or color varies just enough between a seam using nulls and a nearby texture.
2. Try making your seams bevels. That is instead of making a 90 degree butt with the connecting brushes grab the vertices so you make a 45 degree angle. You might combine this with re-texturing the null faces as above.
3. If you double-click on the worldspawn entry in the treeview you will be given a list of values. In it is the light-geometry scale. If you adjust this down by multiples of 2 it will reduce the level of light that's availalbe and so reduce the visual intensity of the leaks. The down side to this is it reduce the definition of shadows.
If these don't work usually I end up having to completely rework how the brushes are assembled. This will take some experimenting to find the right approach that doesn't produce a leak.
11/28/2006 (3:09 am)
Hey Andy, here are some of things you can try;1. If you have a null texture applied to the hidden edges of your wall brushes change those to something that's visible and darker than the grey texture used on the floor. Sometimes light leaks are produced when contrast or color varies just enough between a seam using nulls and a nearby texture.
2. Try making your seams bevels. That is instead of making a 90 degree butt with the connecting brushes grab the vertices so you make a 45 degree angle. You might combine this with re-texturing the null faces as above.
3. If you double-click on the worldspawn entry in the treeview you will be given a list of values. In it is the light-geometry scale. If you adjust this down by multiples of 2 it will reduce the level of light that's availalbe and so reduce the visual intensity of the leaks. The down side to this is it reduce the definition of shadows.
If these don't work usually I end up having to completely rework how the brushes are assembled. This will take some experimenting to find the right approach that doesn't produce a leak.
#3
11/28/2006 (3:27 am)
Thanks I'll try these suggestions now. The consistant construction technique for these prefabs was to make a cube, then make it hollow. Before I knew about Make Hollow I would construct rooms one wall at a time with no light leaks. I wonder if this is the problem.
#4
11/28/2006 (3:29 am)
@ NR - actual I don't understand point 2 - could you illustrate it somehow please?
#5
- Start with new Torque Room
- Mod to suit while using grid align on move and place (CTRL Key) ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!! - might eliminate rounding errors.
- Keep New Torque Room folder structure.
I'll keep you posted.
11/28/2006 (3:56 am)
Actually I'm not having problems if I do the following...- Start with new Torque Room
- Mod to suit while using grid align on move and place (CTRL Key) ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!! - might eliminate rounding errors.
- Keep New Torque Room folder structure.
I'll keep you posted.
#6
11/28/2006 (5:48 am)
Okay I think I figured it out. You can't have more than one portal per DIF - silly concept really... At the ends of my halls are portals... can this be true?
#7
11/28/2006 (5:57 am)
Nah... that didn't work... hmmm....
#8
If anyone wants to test what goes wrong, make a cube, make it hollow, remove the ends to make a corridor, replace with portals and convert to DIF - blech!
11/28/2006 (6:17 am)
Ahh well... got a solution ... none the wiser... Basically I've made a hallway straight from the New Torque Map object and built my level from that. Not elegant, but clean, and results in the right look...If anyone wants to test what goes wrong, make a cube, make it hollow, remove the ends to make a corridor, replace with portals and convert to DIF - blech!
#9
And yes, you should always keep your brushes on the grid points. If you move a brush and you notice that its offset from the grid you will typically have to remake the brush. I've learned once a brush gets pushed off the grid its impossible to get it back on. Even the Force to Grid feature doesn't correct it. So be real careful how you move the brushes and position them in relation to one another. There is most definately a correct way to build in Quark.
There are other features that work and some that don't. I've heard from day one you shouldn't use Make Hollow, that you should just build your own box, but you may have better results than others. Also be careful when you start rotating the brushes. That gets very trickery as it tends to push brushes off the grid too.
Sorry I can't provide a pic to show to show you a bevel. But basically you can grab and move a vertices if place your cursor over the vert then click and move. Once you have that just move the vert vertically up or down until its 45 degrees relative to its opposite vertices. Beveled faces are a good solution for leaks that persist for no appearant reason.
Hope some of this helps.
11/28/2006 (7:24 am)
Yeah, using the example map in Quark is a good way to start out and you definately learn alot if you study it. But eventually you need to be able to build your own map. Keeping the file structure as shown in the example map is best and you can use more than just one portal. And yes, you should always keep your brushes on the grid points. If you move a brush and you notice that its offset from the grid you will typically have to remake the brush. I've learned once a brush gets pushed off the grid its impossible to get it back on. Even the Force to Grid feature doesn't correct it. So be real careful how you move the brushes and position them in relation to one another. There is most definately a correct way to build in Quark.
There are other features that work and some that don't. I've heard from day one you shouldn't use Make Hollow, that you should just build your own box, but you may have better results than others. Also be careful when you start rotating the brushes. That gets very trickery as it tends to push brushes off the grid too.
Sorry I can't provide a pic to show to show you a bevel. But basically you can grab and move a vertices if place your cursor over the vert then click and move. Once you have that just move the vert vertically up or down until its 45 degrees relative to its opposite vertices. Beveled faces are a good solution for leaks that persist for no appearant reason.
Hope some of this helps.
#11
P.S. Let me elaborate more. The standard way to create wall seams is to overlap them, like I describe above. Beveling wall and floor seams is sort of a last ditch thing to do in case overlapping seams don't work. Overlaps do usually work though. When they don't its typically because of a floating error.
11/28/2006 (2:26 pm)
Yeah, that's it. Also, the other corners showing in your example should overlap. In other words, one wall brush should extend all the way to the end so your corners are not intented.P.S. Let me elaborate more. The standard way to create wall seams is to overlap them, like I describe above. Beveling wall and floor seams is sort of a last ditch thing to do in case overlapping seams don't work. Overlaps do usually work though. When they don't its typically because of a floating error.
#12
1. Keep everything airtight until you are ready to let a player in there - then experiment with the portal because that was what was causing my light leaks.
2. If you want to rotate brushes then pull verts around - don't! Rotate a brush at either 90, 180 or 270 but use no other. Then pulls verts around using a grid locked system. This way all edges meet up perfectly.
So here's a snap shot of a room with corridors I worked on that took 20 mins...
12/01/2006 (3:34 am)
Okay - I have it sussed now, and am getting "jiggy wid it" with Quark. I understand how Quark "sees" the world. I found the trick is twofold.1. Keep everything airtight until you are ready to let a player in there - then experiment with the portal because that was what was causing my light leaks.
2. If you want to rotate brushes then pull verts around - don't! Rotate a brush at either 90, 180 or 270 but use no other. Then pulls verts around using a grid locked system. This way all edges meet up perfectly.
So here's a snap shot of a room with corridors I worked on that took 20 mins...
#13
BTW, you should play around with the rortational compass. There are actually two levels of rotation in Quark. The first level is what you describe. It is possible to get good results with rotating a single brush, you just have to be REAL careful. But the second level is using the compass to rotate the entire scene in relation to the orthographic viewports. This feature will allow you to rotate large chunks of your model though there is only a slight distortion of brushes. To make this work properly you have to use the degree positions marked on the compass.
Glad to see you making progress!
N.R.
12/01/2006 (5:30 am)
Excellent, Andy! I'm glad you hung in there to beat the learning curve. The point of frustration you were at is generally where most users abandon Quark. Once you get over that hump you begin to see what Quark can actually accomplish as long as you pay attention to the rules of the road. BTW, you should play around with the rortational compass. There are actually two levels of rotation in Quark. The first level is what you describe. It is possible to get good results with rotating a single brush, you just have to be REAL careful. But the second level is using the compass to rotate the entire scene in relation to the orthographic viewports. This feature will allow you to rotate large chunks of your model though there is only a slight distortion of brushes. To make this work properly you have to use the degree positions marked on the compass.
Glad to see you making progress!
N.R.
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