Violent people play violent video games?
by AzraelK · in General Discussion · 05/24/2002 (12:14 pm) · 45 replies
I think Ive just the jackpot in one of our industry most discussed themes, and found a way to put a nail to this discussion forever!
My theory is the following:
People who like and/or some how aprove violence as a way to deal with ackward situations (even imaginarily) enjoy to play violent games.
And is counter part
People who dont believe in violence and disaprove it opt to play other kind of games or activities.
Is as simple as that! for years governments have expent their time and money trying to solve this simple issue, media has fought to link them to henious crimes, this is THE explanation!
Enjoying violent games are a RESULT of violent behaviour not a CAUSE
Thats why some kids who play games act violently because they already are violent ot begin with! (some how) video games act as a form to vent this violent behaviour thats all.
If they werent violent they would reject this kind of
games, is as obvious as that!
Case 1:
I have a 3 year old kid, since he was born he tended to be a bit agressive to other kids and grown ups trying to hurt him (like doctors trying to inyect him) dont take it wrong he is very sweet he is just over protective of himself since he was born.
Since I love games I introduced him to them since he was 2 he liked the colors and the movement of child games, but at 3 he had choices for games and rejected most than werent interesting to him the list began to grew smaller and smaller at the end his favorites were platform
games with cuddly critters and (guess!) fighting games! (he is 3 I dont allow him to play M games of course) at the end he liked Tekken above all games, he even learned
to say "Tekken" correctly to ask for it by name.
A few days ago my wife said, "the kid is agressive because you let him play that game!". Then it hit me! he has always been agressive! (is kind of hard not to remember a new born kicking his doctor so he would let him go!) he just choose his favorite from a
pile, no one forced him too, he is a bit agressive, so he likes agressive games!
I can make him play a puzzle or a rpg (maybe for a while) but at the end he is always back at tekken!
Case 2:
(this is a bit less scientific but more obvious)
I can make by brother play quake3 or doom not even if his life depended on it, by brother REJECTS very violent games (he could play a fighter or tribes 2 but not doom) I couldnt force him too. Why is this?
Because according his values playing DOOM is WRONG. there is nothing fun about blasting a man/critter entrails out, even if its a simulation its just wrong and he wont do it!
Conclussion:
People who like violence play violent games, people who reject violence (at some level) reject violent games.
People who commit violent acts are attached to violent games or music or movies because thats the kind of entertainment they enjoy!
Is as simple as that! we are looking at the results not the causes!
Of course this does not mean that a man who plays "soldier of fortune" must be locked away, it simply means he doesnt reject that kind of behaviour, and that could be because:
*He/she realizes is just a game and concentrates on the excitement, realism may bring to the experience.
Or B
*He/she secretly desires this kind of behaviours and finds that he/she can liberate this forbidden desires through a videogame without worries because is just a GAME!
As soon as I realized this I came here to share my theory with you! I think this may just be what we were looking for! this may be our defense!
Please share your thoughts about this!
(Do you know someone who may actually give good use to this info?)
My theory is the following:
People who like and/or some how aprove violence as a way to deal with ackward situations (even imaginarily) enjoy to play violent games.
And is counter part
People who dont believe in violence and disaprove it opt to play other kind of games or activities.
Is as simple as that! for years governments have expent their time and money trying to solve this simple issue, media has fought to link them to henious crimes, this is THE explanation!
Enjoying violent games are a RESULT of violent behaviour not a CAUSE
Thats why some kids who play games act violently because they already are violent ot begin with! (some how) video games act as a form to vent this violent behaviour thats all.
If they werent violent they would reject this kind of
games, is as obvious as that!
Case 1:
I have a 3 year old kid, since he was born he tended to be a bit agressive to other kids and grown ups trying to hurt him (like doctors trying to inyect him) dont take it wrong he is very sweet he is just over protective of himself since he was born.
Since I love games I introduced him to them since he was 2 he liked the colors and the movement of child games, but at 3 he had choices for games and rejected most than werent interesting to him the list began to grew smaller and smaller at the end his favorites were platform
games with cuddly critters and (guess!) fighting games! (he is 3 I dont allow him to play M games of course) at the end he liked Tekken above all games, he even learned
to say "Tekken" correctly to ask for it by name.
A few days ago my wife said, "the kid is agressive because you let him play that game!". Then it hit me! he has always been agressive! (is kind of hard not to remember a new born kicking his doctor so he would let him go!) he just choose his favorite from a
pile, no one forced him too, he is a bit agressive, so he likes agressive games!
I can make him play a puzzle or a rpg (maybe for a while) but at the end he is always back at tekken!
Case 2:
(this is a bit less scientific but more obvious)
I can make by brother play quake3 or doom not even if his life depended on it, by brother REJECTS very violent games (he could play a fighter or tribes 2 but not doom) I couldnt force him too. Why is this?
Because according his values playing DOOM is WRONG. there is nothing fun about blasting a man/critter entrails out, even if its a simulation its just wrong and he wont do it!
Conclussion:
People who like violence play violent games, people who reject violence (at some level) reject violent games.
People who commit violent acts are attached to violent games or music or movies because thats the kind of entertainment they enjoy!
Is as simple as that! we are looking at the results not the causes!
Of course this does not mean that a man who plays "soldier of fortune" must be locked away, it simply means he doesnt reject that kind of behaviour, and that could be because:
*He/she realizes is just a game and concentrates on the excitement, realism may bring to the experience.
Or B
*He/she secretly desires this kind of behaviours and finds that he/she can liberate this forbidden desires through a videogame without worries because is just a GAME!
As soon as I realized this I came here to share my theory with you! I think this may just be what we were looking for! this may be our defense!
Please share your thoughts about this!
(Do you know someone who may actually give good use to this info?)
#2
Just like people with "addictive personallities" will ALWAYS be prone to addictions, NOT because the substances/activies are there, but because it is in their NATURE! Same goes with "obsessive personalities".
Take away tobbacco they find something else, maybe more or else dangerous, but they will never give up what ever drives them to partake of an addiction.
Peaceniks will be peacniks ( until they are really threated in a dire situtation and will probably revert to their animal instincts ).
Warmongers will be warmongers.
Soccer mons will be soccer moms.
Your son can not deny his nature, being a human he should be able to learn to intercede and control it but it is there.
The ( insert personal incarnation of evil here ) can not MAKE us do anything, but can present the opportunity for us to do it. We decide what we do and do not do.
Personally I find EXESSIVELY violent games an outlet.
Would you rather people shoot up pixels or real people at a mall ( State of Emergency ).
Look at Darth Vader ( he was not "turned" to the DarkSide ) it was in his NATURE all along. Just as with Luke he could never be turned because it is not in his NATURE.
Used Car salesmen will be used car salesmen.
Lawyers will be lawyers.
it goes on and on.
Embrace your nature!
05/24/2002 (12:47 pm)
I always thought that this was understood, it is common sense.Just like people with "addictive personallities" will ALWAYS be prone to addictions, NOT because the substances/activies are there, but because it is in their NATURE! Same goes with "obsessive personalities".
Take away tobbacco they find something else, maybe more or else dangerous, but they will never give up what ever drives them to partake of an addiction.
Peaceniks will be peacniks ( until they are really threated in a dire situtation and will probably revert to their animal instincts ).
Warmongers will be warmongers.
Soccer mons will be soccer moms.
Your son can not deny his nature, being a human he should be able to learn to intercede and control it but it is there.
The ( insert personal incarnation of evil here ) can not MAKE us do anything, but can present the opportunity for us to do it. We decide what we do and do not do.
Personally I find EXESSIVELY violent games an outlet.
Would you rather people shoot up pixels or real people at a mall ( State of Emergency ).
Look at Darth Vader ( he was not "turned" to the DarkSide ) it was in his NATURE all along. Just as with Luke he could never be turned because it is not in his NATURE.
Used Car salesmen will be used car salesmen.
Lawyers will be lawyers.
it goes on and on.
Embrace your nature!
#3
05/24/2002 (1:17 pm)
This theory is of course ridiculous. I'm an avid amateur military historian, and I am interested in any game with a warfare theme. I like them as realistic as possible (though i must say I'm not a fan of SOF style dimemberment). Yet I hate guns for real, I actually feel physically unwell in there presense. I detest actual acts of violence, though I of course accept that in a military situation they are necessary. I disagree vehemently with capital punishment. I also love games such as Zelda, Rayman, Mario etc. How do you class me then?
#4
Like my friend Aris, aka The Bitch Goddess of Fighting Games. She's not violent, has no hidden tendancies to violence, but she's a speed freak. She walks fast, talks fast, thinks fast..... Basicly think Manic-Manic. She loves shooters and fighting games because they're fast, there's never any slow down in the action. Speaking of Tekken, according to legend, Aris lost *once* (she has the reaction time of a hummingbird LOL). On the flip side, I've also seen her get engrossed in playing The Sims for hours at a time.
Then there's me. I'm an escapist, pure and simple. I play video games for the same reason I read novels and watch movies, to forget about the world for awhile. The closer to reality a novel\movie\TV show\game is, the more boring I will find it. Thus Aris' love of The Sims totally baffles me, as does the popularity of Counter Strike. Both are way too...... normal. I don't care about the genre, just so long as it let me leave the real world behind as completely as possible...... I'd make a great druggie LOL
There's all kinds of gamers, and I feel trying to find their motivations for why they choose the games they choose is kind-of an impossiblity.... There will be acceptions found for any theory.
05/24/2002 (1:37 pm)
I have observed gamers who would further prove your theory, Like the Tribes1&2 fanatic RabbidHillbilly (old friend on mine, went to highschool with him)...... and observed others that would force revisions.Like my friend Aris, aka The Bitch Goddess of Fighting Games. She's not violent, has no hidden tendancies to violence, but she's a speed freak. She walks fast, talks fast, thinks fast..... Basicly think Manic-Manic. She loves shooters and fighting games because they're fast, there's never any slow down in the action. Speaking of Tekken, according to legend, Aris lost *once* (she has the reaction time of a hummingbird LOL). On the flip side, I've also seen her get engrossed in playing The Sims for hours at a time.
Then there's me. I'm an escapist, pure and simple. I play video games for the same reason I read novels and watch movies, to forget about the world for awhile. The closer to reality a novel\movie\TV show\game is, the more boring I will find it. Thus Aris' love of The Sims totally baffles me, as does the popularity of Counter Strike. Both are way too...... normal. I don't care about the genre, just so long as it let me leave the real world behind as completely as possible...... I'd make a great druggie LOL
There's all kinds of gamers, and I feel trying to find their motivations for why they choose the games they choose is kind-of an impossiblity.... There will be acceptions found for any theory.
#5
Of course you dont like real life violence, you are class A, like me (I once vomited in the midle of an armed assault) however we DO aprove and LIKE violence, simulated at least but we like it we dont REJECT it.
Is ok to feel upset about this, but lets face the facts none of us has been forced at gun point to play a violent game (like tribes, ut, quake 3 or doom) we do it because we like it, therefore we like violence (at some level we are violent) so what ? if we do a test more than 80% of the users will prove equal and wont reject violence. but they are those who will.
What im trying to stablish is that opposite to what the media or our legislators believe, violent games dont create violent users, Users are already violent (sometimes to alertive levels) before using than entertainment and thats why they like it.
In most cases however, normal (or to put it on simple terms "sane" people ) people like you and me wont exteriorize such violence through physical violence, they may do it through other mediums of expression such as music, painting or writing (or in our case videogames)but never reaching physical violence.
05/24/2002 (2:27 pm)
To those who answered upset about this:Of course you dont like real life violence, you are class A, like me (I once vomited in the midle of an armed assault) however we DO aprove and LIKE violence, simulated at least but we like it we dont REJECT it.
Is ok to feel upset about this, but lets face the facts none of us has been forced at gun point to play a violent game (like tribes, ut, quake 3 or doom) we do it because we like it, therefore we like violence (at some level we are violent) so what ? if we do a test more than 80% of the users will prove equal and wont reject violence. but they are those who will.
What im trying to stablish is that opposite to what the media or our legislators believe, violent games dont create violent users, Users are already violent (sometimes to alertive levels) before using than entertainment and thats why they like it.
In most cases however, normal (or to put it on simple terms "sane" people ) people like you and me wont exteriorize such violence through physical violence, they may do it through other mediums of expression such as music, painting or writing (or in our case videogames)but never reaching physical violence.
#6
Well... thats kinda freaky... why did i tell you this? Oh yeah, I'M NOT EVIL, not violent either though but i do imagine having a violent death in some dreams, or killing some monster violently.. so that proves it!
05/24/2002 (3:06 pm)
YEAH! I agree... I love to play Battle games... but it doesn't mean i'm evil... i started playing black and white and i got bored of good and went evil... my stomach actualy started hurting when i picked up a rock and threw it at a house... i actualy fell on the floor in pain and the game got stuck... (talk about punishment over a game)... hehehe.. i'm not lieing.. it felt like someone took a pencil through all of my rights ribs then into my chest... I needed to use the chair to get up... I was scared to hell when that happened... Beleive me i'm not evil or anything... I had a dream this girl i like was about to get killed and i got in the way and got like... about... a 3 foot hole in me and was held up in the air by my neck for about 5 seconds then dropped... before i got in the way i ran by it and cut part of it's chest before it caught me by the head... (i was in some armor thing, think Guyver, check out guyver.com) Well... thats kinda freaky... why did i tell you this? Oh yeah, I'M NOT EVIL, not violent either though but i do imagine having a violent death in some dreams, or killing some monster violently.. so that proves it!
#7
What would proved the theory wrong, is that you REALLY hated violence and then played SOF doing as much mayhem as possible at the maximum level of gore without any reason. but as you can guess both of those acts are contradictory.
05/24/2002 (3:08 pm)
Jhon: it sounds to me like you are not very violent, or not violent at all, thats why you dont like violent games like sof or if you do you play it for an alternate reason, (probably switching off the unnecesary gore) therefore you are actually proving the theory may be correct.What would proved the theory wrong, is that you REALLY hated violence and then played SOF doing as much mayhem as possible at the maximum level of gore without any reason. but as you can guess both of those acts are contradictory.
#8
05/24/2002 (3:20 pm)
I agree totaly with the theory. Most people who play the games do accept violence in some form. Of course there are always exceptions. But anyway, it depends on a persons mood for what style of game is played. If i'm angry, i play a bloody game of Q3, or if i'm hyper, maybe a racing game.
#9
But I also play games like GTA3 with the maximum gore turned on, jack cars and use them to run over old ladies. Then when the cops come I beat them to death with baseball bats...And when they send in the helicopter I shoot it down with a rocket launcher...The whole time giggling like a school kid.
I have absolutely no problems with simulated violence, even of the over-the-top and gory variety...Its the real world violence where real people suffer that gets me down.
And for whatever its worth I've been playing violent video games since I was a wee tyke and they havent seemed to turn me into a killer. Hell I havent even been in a real fight, nor struck anyone, nor caused any violence at all outside of a couple minor schoolyard fights (and I was most assurdly not the aggressor) in grade school.
05/24/2002 (4:00 pm)
Actually I dont think those two acts contradict. Like others here, I don't like the idea of real world violence at all. I'm completely non-violent myself...But I also play games like GTA3 with the maximum gore turned on, jack cars and use them to run over old ladies. Then when the cops come I beat them to death with baseball bats...And when they send in the helicopter I shoot it down with a rocket launcher...The whole time giggling like a school kid.
I have absolutely no problems with simulated violence, even of the over-the-top and gory variety...Its the real world violence where real people suffer that gets me down.
And for whatever its worth I've been playing violent video games since I was a wee tyke and they havent seemed to turn me into a killer. Hell I havent even been in a real fight, nor struck anyone, nor caused any violence at all outside of a couple minor schoolyard fights (and I was most assurdly not the aggressor) in grade school.
#10
They are banking on the fact that playing violent games will lead you into commiting violent acts (for your country)
Go look around E3 news sites for a game called "America's Army". It's a Ghost Recon-like game that's being developed by the Army (with your and mine tax dollars) to be given away in hopes of taking "shooting" out of "school shooting" and back where it belongs... in far away third world countries!
While I don't blame them for trying, it really doesn't do much but prove that violent people will tend to play violent games. At least desensitizes them enough to make them feel war is a romantic pastime.
Remember. In war, there are no wall hacks.
05/24/2002 (4:17 pm)
The US Government just blew your argument to hell.They are banking on the fact that playing violent games will lead you into commiting violent acts (for your country)
Go look around E3 news sites for a game called "America's Army". It's a Ghost Recon-like game that's being developed by the Army (with your and mine tax dollars) to be given away in hopes of taking "shooting" out of "school shooting" and back where it belongs... in far away third world countries!
While I don't blame them for trying, it really doesn't do much but prove that violent people will tend to play violent games. At least desensitizes them enough to make them feel war is a romantic pastime.
Remember. In war, there are no wall hacks.
#11
... but that's exactly what most of the politicians (and some parents etc.) here in Germany are saying - and it's, well, stupid! Their "proof" is this guy who shot like 17 people (which is really a tragedy, don't get me wrong here...) in a school here in Germany a couple of weeks ago and who played Counterstrike and some other "evil" games... They are completely turning things around... the guy may had fun playing these games because he *was* aggressive, frustrated, and whatnot, but how can anyone seriously believe that playing CS will turn you into a mindless, cold killer or even "train" you to kill other people?? I used to play CS, too, but I'm against *every* form of violence in real life, I didn't even join the army because I'm absolutely non-violent... And now some 60 year old politicians who never ever played ANY video game in their entire life are demanding to prohibit Counterstrike... that's only poor and simply ignorance of social facts ... they don't fight the cause, they're fighting the symptoms...
05/24/2002 (4:51 pm)
Quote:True, I would say.
violent people will tend to play violent games.
Quote:Utterly ridiculous IMHO. (No offense!!)
playing violent games will lead you into commiting violent acts
... but that's exactly what most of the politicians (and some parents etc.) here in Germany are saying - and it's, well, stupid! Their "proof" is this guy who shot like 17 people (which is really a tragedy, don't get me wrong here...) in a school here in Germany a couple of weeks ago and who played Counterstrike and some other "evil" games... They are completely turning things around... the guy may had fun playing these games because he *was* aggressive, frustrated, and whatnot, but how can anyone seriously believe that playing CS will turn you into a mindless, cold killer or even "train" you to kill other people?? I used to play CS, too, but I'm against *every* form of violence in real life, I didn't even join the army because I'm absolutely non-violent... And now some 60 year old politicians who never ever played ANY video game in their entire life are demanding to prohibit Counterstrike... that's only poor and simply ignorance of social facts ... they don't fight the cause, they're fighting the symptoms...
#12
You play it because you know your not harming anyone and it makes you laugh, like getting health back from the prosts then beating them up for the money back... lol... I like good violence,IE:good guys ripping the badguys head off... Go to www.guyver.com! Best japanime in existance! Really bloody though... some guy practices his new Guyver skills on a ton of his own team... then crushes their heads and stuff!
LONG LIVE GUYVER! ok.. maybe not... he gets killed in the 6th or 5th episode... but then he grows back and levels a building...
05/24/2002 (7:00 pm)
Quote:
Actually I dont think those two acts contradict. Like others here, I don't like the idea of real world violence at all. I'm completely non-violent myself...
But I also play games like GTA3 with the maximum gore turned on, jack cars and use them to run over old ladies. Then when the cops come I beat them to death with baseball bats...And when they send in the helicopter I shoot it down with a rocket launcher...The whole time giggling like a school kid.
I have absolutely no problems with simulated violence, even of the over-the-top and gory variety...Its the real world violence where real people suffer that gets me down.
And for whatever its worth I've been playing violent the video games since I was a wee tyke and they havent seemed to turn me into a killer. Hell I havent even been in a real fight, nor struck anyone, nor caused any violence at all outside of a couple minor schoolyard fights (and I was most assurdly not the aggressor) in grade school.
You play it because you know your not harming anyone and it makes you laugh, like getting health back from the prosts then beating them up for the money back... lol... I like good violence,IE:good guys ripping the badguys head off... Go to www.guyver.com! Best japanime in existance! Really bloody though... some guy practices his new Guyver skills on a ton of his own team... then crushes their heads and stuff!
LONG LIVE GUYVER! ok.. maybe not... he gets killed in the 6th or 5th episode... but then he grows back and levels a building...
#13
HOGWASH!
Disclaimer: No i didnot read all of the above, imo the topic is a waste of space
05/24/2002 (7:47 pm)
i smoke ciggerettes! does that mean i will end up growing tobbacco?HOGWASH!
Disclaimer: No i didnot read all of the above, imo the topic is a waste of space
#14
Not directly after playing, but after they recruit the game fan.
It's a sad, and rather disturbing event and it proves one of two things:
1. Army acts without doing research, and was stupid to assume making a game as a recruiting tool would increase recruits.
or
2. Army recognizes there's a current popularity for "fun" war simulators, and a desire for new recruits. Put em together, and you have a steady conveyer belt to draw in new recruits to send somewhere across the world to help kill other human beings.
This, beyond any research or psychological studies has solidified my belief that violence in games will at least push violent people into commitiing violent acts.
05/25/2002 (12:37 am)
Rose (come on, use a real name. I'm getting tired of addressing an Everquest nickname!) you seem to forget that the US Army is hoping that violence comes of this game.Not directly after playing, but after they recruit the game fan.
It's a sad, and rather disturbing event and it proves one of two things:
1. Army acts without doing research, and was stupid to assume making a game as a recruiting tool would increase recruits.
or
2. Army recognizes there's a current popularity for "fun" war simulators, and a desire for new recruits. Put em together, and you have a steady conveyer belt to draw in new recruits to send somewhere across the world to help kill other human beings.
This, beyond any research or psychological studies has solidified my belief that violence in games will at least push violent people into commitiing violent acts.
#16
05/25/2002 (2:06 am)
ROTFL!! ;-)
#17
I believe the people who did the army game, thought:
Violent people or people who aprove violence somehow like violent games.
People who play military games have some inclination to militia.
People who play American army games MAY have some interest in the american army.
A+B+C = potential recruits (which they need since the country IS in war)
p.s.
Could someone explain to me (like im a 4 year old) how someone who loathes violence in every form would play sof 2, and GTA as the bad guys and produce as much mayhem and gore as possible for the sake of fun?
I dont believe this subject doesnt beat a dead horse
(whatever that means)
05/25/2002 (6:10 am)
Actually I believe the army game may also agree with the theory, you know to be honest I believe our government is not that stupid, when they "a game did it" obviously they are doing to divert attention to something else. I mean a big problem which causes is control and legislations but the government sees that they can lure the media into thinking some game or music may be involved (which may be more interesting) then they take the easy scapegoat.I believe the people who did the army game, thought:
Violent people or people who aprove violence somehow like violent games.
People who play military games have some inclination to militia.
People who play American army games MAY have some interest in the american army.
A+B+C = potential recruits (which they need since the country IS in war)
p.s.
Could someone explain to me (like im a 4 year old) how someone who loathes violence in every form would play sof 2, and GTA as the bad guys and produce as much mayhem and gore as possible for the sake of fun?
I dont believe this subject doesnt beat a dead horse
(whatever that means)
#18
Naturally, the american military has researched the games market and see this game as a good recruiting agent. However, the recruiting power will come from the military 'feel' to the game, the use of tactics, teamwork, the satisfaction of successfully carrying out a military operation with great precision. Of course the hardware will attract too, be it an Apache helicopter or a sniper rifle. However, I seriously doubt the gore content will be high, realistic military sims rarely include high levels of gore; you shoot the enemy, they go down. No limb removal required ( and watch the uproar in the media if any blood is even included)No, The desensitising part comes later, once you have signed on ;)
05/25/2002 (8:33 am)
Hmm, maybe I jumped the gun, your theory is probably correct IMO. People of violent tendencies will naturally gravitate towards violent games so that they can express their violent fantasies. People who are not in any way violent in the real world may also enjoy extreme violence games, be it because of an interest; perhaps historical, or simply as a harmless release. Naturally, the american military has researched the games market and see this game as a good recruiting agent. However, the recruiting power will come from the military 'feel' to the game, the use of tactics, teamwork, the satisfaction of successfully carrying out a military operation with great precision. Of course the hardware will attract too, be it an Apache helicopter or a sniper rifle. However, I seriously doubt the gore content will be high, realistic military sims rarely include high levels of gore; you shoot the enemy, they go down. No limb removal required ( and watch the uproar in the media if any blood is even included)No, The desensitising part comes later, once you have signed on ;)
#19
05/25/2002 (9:50 am)
I am a pacifist and against violence, yet I play all types of violent games and have been for a very long time. While I do agree that people who are violent in the first place may become more violent from playing video games, I don't believe that people who aren't violent will not play violent games. 
Torque Owner Mike Stoddart