New development of melee combat game
by Taran Singh · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 11/14/2006 (4:10 am) · 5 replies
Hi everyone
up until now me and a group of game modders have been using the unreal engine to create our melee combat mod, recently we managed to get funding so that we could start working on our project full time as a non profit educational project. The game is based on 19th century asian history, so will feature authentic weapons and environments of the period.
We have been seriously lookign into the Torque game engine, and we think its probably goign to be the best option for us. We have 12 months to develop a melee combat game, we have already done our concepts and our game design ideas laid out. The game involves a large story cinematic component with cutscenes throughout and between levels. The story has already been blocked out and characters concepted and have started 3d models.
I have a few queries, generally about torque and also soem advice on scheduling from some of the more experienced game developers out there. (my background is mainly multimedia project management and 3d architectural visualisation)
1. how much will our workflow change from unreal 2004 to torque in terms of 3d assets (max to asc to unrealed)
2. we are developing a melee combat system, with a 3 strike combo sequence and bow and arrow , how hard would this be to implement, we will have 1 fulltime and one part-time programmer, would 3-4 months to develop a decent but simple combat engine seem realistic, providing all animations and weapons are ready.(all combat research and moves have been decided)
3. in terms of level building, how diferent is level editing in torque. and what tools are used
A. Bsp level editing, cutting and intersecting
B. Importing low poly decoration models from 3DsMAx
C. Placing triggers for events
D. Placing cinematic path points
4. what is the diference between the Torque game engine 1.5 and the torque shader engine, the shader engine looks great, but i dont see many people using it at the moment?
5. Is teh character mesh and anim export from max to torque pretty straightforward,what problems in terms of animating and importing characters might we ancounter from max to dts?
would really appreciate some feedback. thanks
Taran
up until now me and a group of game modders have been using the unreal engine to create our melee combat mod, recently we managed to get funding so that we could start working on our project full time as a non profit educational project. The game is based on 19th century asian history, so will feature authentic weapons and environments of the period.
We have been seriously lookign into the Torque game engine, and we think its probably goign to be the best option for us. We have 12 months to develop a melee combat game, we have already done our concepts and our game design ideas laid out. The game involves a large story cinematic component with cutscenes throughout and between levels. The story has already been blocked out and characters concepted and have started 3d models.
I have a few queries, generally about torque and also soem advice on scheduling from some of the more experienced game developers out there. (my background is mainly multimedia project management and 3d architectural visualisation)
1. how much will our workflow change from unreal 2004 to torque in terms of 3d assets (max to asc to unrealed)
2. we are developing a melee combat system, with a 3 strike combo sequence and bow and arrow , how hard would this be to implement, we will have 1 fulltime and one part-time programmer, would 3-4 months to develop a decent but simple combat engine seem realistic, providing all animations and weapons are ready.(all combat research and moves have been decided)
3. in terms of level building, how diferent is level editing in torque. and what tools are used
A. Bsp level editing, cutting and intersecting
B. Importing low poly decoration models from 3DsMAx
C. Placing triggers for events
D. Placing cinematic path points
4. what is the diference between the Torque game engine 1.5 and the torque shader engine, the shader engine looks great, but i dont see many people using it at the moment?
5. Is teh character mesh and anim export from max to torque pretty straightforward,what problems in terms of animating and importing characters might we ancounter from max to dts?
would really appreciate some feedback. thanks
Taran
About the author
#2
for the quick reply and detailed info, that put my mind to rest a lot.
thats really interesting..
so if the aniamtions are stored seperatly from the mesh+biped, is it pretty easy to go back and export soem new animations or replace and tweak existing ones and just replace the dsq files?
I understand about usign the dummies as mountnodes but not understanding the level of detail, can multires modifier be used to export lod , or will it be done by an underlying lowres meshattached to a seperate dummy.
I've been pretty impressed with the tutorials and replies to the forum as i have been looking for a few weeks and everyone seems to be really friendly and helpful, which is a big bonus.
i will psot some of our design work so far... when i get home
thanks again.
Taran
11/14/2006 (8:27 am)
Thanks marcfor the quick reply and detailed info, that put my mind to rest a lot.
thats really interesting..
so if the aniamtions are stored seperatly from the mesh+biped, is it pretty easy to go back and export soem new animations or replace and tweak existing ones and just replace the dsq files?
I understand about usign the dummies as mountnodes but not understanding the level of detail, can multires modifier be used to export lod , or will it be done by an underlying lowres meshattached to a seperate dummy.
I've been pretty impressed with the tutorials and replies to the forum as i have been looking for a few weeks and everyone seems to be really friendly and helpful, which is a big bonus.
i will psot some of our design work so far... when i get home
thanks again.
Taran
#3
And yes that
Both as you mentioned. Multires is the one option with least hassle for animated models, as you only need to rig the base model and can create the multires LODs without rigging a secondary LOD model.
For static Shapes usually you build a secondary Model for lower LOD as you have better control, but then again thats up to artist to decide how to apply LOD.
Marc
11/14/2006 (9:48 am)
Cool yeah love screenies, show us what ya have. ;)And yes that
Quote:so if the animations are stored seperatly from the mesh+biped, is it pretty easy to go back and export soem new animations or replace and tweak existing ones and just replace the dsq files?is correct.
Both as you mentioned. Multires is the one option with least hassle for animated models, as you only need to rig the base model and can create the multires LODs without rigging a secondary LOD model.
For static Shapes usually you build a secondary Model for lower LOD as you have better control, but then again thats up to artist to decide how to apply LOD.
Marc
#4
also i just wanted to quickly ask if you setup a character using biped with aniamtions, do you have to apply the animations to each character and then export or can the same dsq animations be used for every mesh? we are prob going to have quite a few playable characters most with similar animations.
heres some screens of our character models, authentic weapons, concepts and some of our unreal engine version 1 and 2 tests.
taran
11/16/2006 (1:52 am)
Thanks fro the info marc its been extremely helpful, we have decided to go with the torque engine and will be starting our project in january. We should have our website setup soon. and wheres the best place to start with tutorials on torquealso i just wanted to quickly ask if you setup a character using biped with aniamtions, do you have to apply the animations to each character and then export or can the same dsq animations be used for every mesh? we are prob going to have quite a few playable characters most with similar animations.
heres some screens of our character models, authentic weapons, concepts and some of our unreal engine version 1 and 2 tests.
taran
#5
Looking at the UE screens I'd say you will easily get the same look with TGE.
As to your questions. Yes .dsq's can be used with any other character as long as all the bones used in the dsq are also part of the dts modelfile. However if there are discrepancies in size and posture of the models it will not look so good as the skeleton gets deformed. Therefore it is best to:
Either create your standard Biped which you use for rigging all models and which remains the same to support compatibility or
Import the Biped animations onto each separate models biped and export them according to that respective model to get the appropriate animations on a model per model basis.
For a few good max-tge tutorials go here:
http://torque.smdlabs.com/media/freetutorials/maxdts/page1.htm
Cheers and keep us updated on yer progress, mate.
Marc
11/16/2006 (2:55 am)
Wow Cool Stuff. That guy is totally killer. Looking at the UE screens I'd say you will easily get the same look with TGE.
As to your questions. Yes .dsq's can be used with any other character as long as all the bones used in the dsq are also part of the dts modelfile. However if there are discrepancies in size and posture of the models it will not look so good as the skeleton gets deformed. Therefore it is best to:
Either create your standard Biped which you use for rigging all models and which remains the same to support compatibility or
Import the Biped animations onto each separate models biped and export them according to that respective model to get the appropriate animations on a model per model basis.
For a few good max-tge tutorials go here:
http://torque.smdlabs.com/media/freetutorials/maxdts/page1.htm
Cheers and keep us updated on yer progress, mate.
Marc
Torque Owner Thak
As an artist I can only comment no the related Issues. For the programming side I am sure somone will step up shortly.
1. The Workflow is Max8 -> Torque. One step. The exporters are good but rely on good setup source max files.
Mainly everything has to face the Y axis.
Use Biped for animations for ease of use.
Use cfg files correctly to get the right bones exported
Use Dummys as appropriate markes. (Level of Detail and mountnodes i.e. where the weapons go in the hands for instance)
If you setup things right its totally fast and easy to get stuff from Max to Torque.
3. Same deal.
A.Use Quark or DeleD to build levels ie. interiors. Plus theres the terrain editor inherent in TGE to create the landscape (outdoor levels)
B. See 1. export, import place via the terrain editor.
C. programmer must answer no idea. :)
D. dito
4. TGE is the stable Environment but has no shader support. TSE (or TAE?) Is the Shader Engine and as such geared towards higher end grafix. It is still not fully developed and will take a while to go Gold presumably.
Note that using the CG language you can use shaders in TGE as well. TGE is Multiplatform so: Nice.
5. As above. Use Biped and the skin modifier. Be sure to scale and align the model correctly before you rig it or you might have to do it over. The Mesh with the skeleton is saved as a dts The animations are saved as .dsq with only the bone rotation/translation values inside.
Personally I think TGE is the most versatile Engine and a joy to work with as an Artist.
Cheers
Marc