Is the MMO Kit a scam?
by Andy Hodges · in Torque Game Engine · 11/03/2006 (12:35 pm) · 29 replies
Not sure if I'm the only one having this problem, but I'm beginning to think that the MMO Kit is a scam. I ordered it about a month ago, and what I got was an unfinished mocked-up character and items that didn't even work in inventory. GUI bugs, etc. There is also 1 built wall. Other than that, nothing.
So I contacted their live help and spoke with someone. They said they were in the middle of releasing a new version and that it will be completed with TGE 1.5.
So now that I waited a month, I got an email from them informing me that the new MMO Kit is available for 1.5. However, under my account summary on their website, it still only shows the "older" version and then I noticed a "one-time license fee". No other versions except for the old one. No 1.5, nothing.
I paid $100 for it, but now I can't even reach their support. My emails go unanswered and their "live help" is always stuck with "3 waiting in queue".
-Andy
So I contacted their live help and spoke with someone. They said they were in the middle of releasing a new version and that it will be completed with TGE 1.5.
So now that I waited a month, I got an email from them informing me that the new MMO Kit is available for 1.5. However, under my account summary on their website, it still only shows the "older" version and then I noticed a "one-time license fee". No other versions except for the old one. No 1.5, nothing.
I paid $100 for it, but now I can't even reach their support. My emails go unanswered and their "live help" is always stuck with "3 waiting in queue".
-Andy
#2
hours of time me and Dreamer and Ash were really just playing Yu-Gi-Oh.[/sarcasm]
There is no reason for your support requests to have gone unanswered, and it is quite rather unlikely. Come onto IRC if you need some live support and you will be taken care of, as everyone else is.
See you there!
11/03/2006 (12:59 pm)
[sarcasm]LOL Yes it's a scam, you're just the first brilliant person to have figured it out! The hundreds of hours of time me and Dreamer and Ash were really just playing Yu-Gi-Oh.[/sarcasm]
There is no reason for your support requests to have gone unanswered, and it is quite rather unlikely. Come onto IRC if you need some live support and you will be taken care of, as everyone else is.
See you there!
#3
As for the kit itself, $100 is nothing for even a days work it would save me, and I know the modifications they have made would take me a year or two to do myself.
In fact I saved over $100 just in the included artwork in the kit, I guess I could make it myself, but in time lost each piece would cost well over $50.
I love what they have done for me and the community is great, but we always wonder why since there are around 600 members, why only 50 or so EVER come to irc.mydreamrpg.com #MyDreamRPG and chat about the MMOKIT, or like me just BS with other Dev's to blow off some steam.
11/03/2006 (1:00 pm)
I really have the opposite experience, of course I use IRC to get help and get it almost instantly since they have someone on staff there 24/7.As for the kit itself, $100 is nothing for even a days work it would save me, and I know the modifications they have made would take me a year or two to do myself.
In fact I saved over $100 just in the included artwork in the kit, I guess I could make it myself, but in time lost each piece would cost well over $50.
I love what they have done for me and the community is great, but we always wonder why since there are around 600 members, why only 50 or so EVER come to irc.mydreamrpg.com #MyDreamRPG and chat about the MMOKIT, or like me just BS with other Dev's to blow off some steam.
#4
11/03/2006 (1:04 pm)
This isnt the first time Ive seen people try to take UNSUPPORTED digs at the toolkit. It's a great product that is a solution for a lot of people trying to do what we've been told is only a dream.
#5
11/03/2006 (1:05 pm)
Where are you sending your support requests to and I'll look into this.
#6
sales@dreamgamesinc.com is not an address we use anymore and unfortunately it's went unchecked, but that appears to be where your emails were going to.
I do apologize for the inconvience, we will take steps to address this matter immediately.
In the meantime, please feel free to use either Live Support, Product Support, The Wiki or our community site all of which are available at http://www.mydreamrpg.com/ to recieve support on your product(s).
Regards, and apologies
Dreamer
p.s. The correct email address is sales@mydreamrpg.com
11/03/2006 (1:11 pm)
Ok Andy I think I see what the problem is.sales@dreamgamesinc.com is not an address we use anymore and unfortunately it's went unchecked, but that appears to be where your emails were going to.
I do apologize for the inconvience, we will take steps to address this matter immediately.
In the meantime, please feel free to use either Live Support, Product Support, The Wiki or our community site all of which are available at http://www.mydreamrpg.com/ to recieve support on your product(s).
Regards, and apologies
Dreamer
p.s. The correct email address is sales@mydreamrpg.com
#7
Had the demo been available at the time when we purchased the kit, we would not have made the purchase. Unfortunately the demo wasn't available, so I trusted that the features that they listed would be mostly complete and work pretty well, but they weren't. I held off until 1.5 was officially released before I passed judgement on the kit, but that date has come and gone, but still is not nearly what they claim it to be IMHO.
I highly doubt they would even talk to me about a refund, so I have pretty much just chalked it up as a loss. If MyDreamRPG does want to talk about a refund, then by all means prove me wrong.
At this point the only thing that could possibly redeem it would be the community demo, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
11/03/2006 (1:13 pm)
I wouldn't say its a scam, but the advertising is very misleading in my opinion.Had the demo been available at the time when we purchased the kit, we would not have made the purchase. Unfortunately the demo wasn't available, so I trusted that the features that they listed would be mostly complete and work pretty well, but they weren't. I held off until 1.5 was officially released before I passed judgement on the kit, but that date has come and gone, but still is not nearly what they claim it to be IMHO.
I highly doubt they would even talk to me about a refund, so I have pretty much just chalked it up as a loss. If MyDreamRPG does want to talk about a refund, then by all means prove me wrong.
At this point the only thing that could possibly redeem it would be the community demo, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
#8
I have been holding off on getting this for my needs until i can see (demo or finished game) what is included and if/what works.
11/03/2006 (1:16 pm)
I can't find a feature list on that site. No demo. No screen shots other than art.I have been holding off on getting this for my needs until i can see (demo or finished game) what is included and if/what works.
#9
By the way if you would be so kind as to enlighten us as to the failings of the kit, over on our forums which is where this dicussion rightfully belongs it would be very much appreciated.
Regards,
Dreamer
11/03/2006 (1:17 pm)
Refund Granted! Sorry to lose ya there.By the way if you would be so kind as to enlighten us as to the failings of the kit, over on our forums which is where this dicussion rightfully belongs it would be very much appreciated.
Regards,
Dreamer
#10
11/03/2006 (1:18 pm)
@Allyn Theres a whole forum section devoted to screenshots.
#11
If you are serious about the refund, my team-mate purchased the license, so you won't find a transaction for my name.
Maybe after the community demo is released if things are looking better I might purchase again, but as of right now its $100 that we could have really used elsewhere for the time being while the Kit matures. :D
11/03/2006 (1:24 pm)
I'd rather not start a big flame war here nor there, the only reason that I posted in here was so Andy didn't feel like he was alone with his opinions. If you would like to talk about the reasons I am disappointed then I will glady hop in IRC, or e-mail back and forth. If you are serious about the refund, my team-mate purchased the license, so you won't find a transaction for my name.
Maybe after the community demo is released if things are looking better I might purchase again, but as of right now its $100 that we could have really used elsewhere for the time being while the Kit matures. :D
#13
Darn, I looked in the store and I couldn't find that option, I guess I will have to settle for well written code/script mod's.
I'm a little different though, I have a job and so I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning for only $100.
11/03/2006 (1:24 pm)
It's kind of funny what people expect to get for $100, personally I think they over deliver on the price, but I would like them to stamp out my whole game completely finished for only $10 if that is an option...Darn, I looked in the store and I couldn't find that option, I guess I will have to settle for well written code/script mod's.
I'm a little different though, I have a job and so I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning for only $100.
#14
If you want to make an MMORPG, or heck - even an ORPG, small-scale style - then the MMO Kit will save you many hundreds of hours of painstaking work.
That said, there is no "PUSH BUTTON TO 'MAKE WOW'" function. ;) I think it is deliberately openended in a lot of areas, so that it retains as much flexibility as possible to be useful for a wide variety of game types.
Please DO hop into IRC anytime you want. Plenty of people there, and usually there will be multiple users perfectly happy to tell you what the kit is/does, and why we are using it.
11/03/2006 (1:26 pm)
Hey folks. ;) Been a Dream Kit user since last February, back in the very early stages. I'm not a really strong coder, so the mods made to the engine which allow you to do most major MMO features via scripting are *superb* for me.If you want to make an MMORPG, or heck - even an ORPG, small-scale style - then the MMO Kit will save you many hundreds of hours of painstaking work.
That said, there is no "PUSH BUTTON TO 'MAKE WOW'" function. ;) I think it is deliberately openended in a lot of areas, so that it retains as much flexibility as possible to be useful for a wide variety of game types.
Please DO hop into IRC anytime you want. Plenty of people there, and usually there will be multiple users perfectly happy to tell you what the kit is/does, and why we are using it.
#15
The screen shots i do see are for the Art.(kits)
I am in no way knocking your kit here. But it's very hard to find out what is in it, what it does, examples and a features list, or demo.
All of witch should not be in a forums, they should be on the main site.
I even pimped your kit to the original creator of SWG (and a little promoting of Torque in general), you can see his response here .
So its not just me.
I don't think flames from your team members are necessary.
The OP has real concerns. I used your live support (thats on like every page) to try to ask questions, in the entire 8 hours at work i had it open and no one came in there. The IRC must be hidden. And i don't think anyone in this thread wants a "click" game done solution. But i do think that any one, for anything, wants what they feel they paid for.
My concern, as a prospective buyer (and im highly interested, and supportive), is that i cant find , with ease, any information as to what is in the kit, feature wise, or screen shots of the editors, features (like NPC dialog windows , melee), nothing. The wiki is locked, the tutorials are locked, i'm sure there are forums we cant see.
Point being, stand back for a moment.
If you didn't make the site, and stumbled upon it, would you plunk down 99$?
Don't take offense, take the critique for what it is.
11/03/2006 (1:28 pm)
Where? Other than game projects, i see no screen shots showing the features and functions of the kit.The screen shots i do see are for the Art.(kits)
I am in no way knocking your kit here. But it's very hard to find out what is in it, what it does, examples and a features list, or demo.
All of witch should not be in a forums, they should be on the main site.
I even pimped your kit to the original creator of SWG (and a little promoting of Torque in general), you can see his response here .
So its not just me.
I don't think flames from your team members are necessary.
The OP has real concerns. I used your live support (thats on like every page) to try to ask questions, in the entire 8 hours at work i had it open and no one came in there. The IRC must be hidden. And i don't think anyone in this thread wants a "click" game done solution. But i do think that any one, for anything, wants what they feel they paid for.
My concern, as a prospective buyer (and im highly interested, and supportive), is that i cant find , with ease, any information as to what is in the kit, feature wise, or screen shots of the editors, features (like NPC dialog windows , melee), nothing. The wiki is locked, the tutorials are locked, i'm sure there are forums we cant see.
Point being, stand back for a moment.
If you didn't make the site, and stumbled upon it, would you plunk down 99$?
Don't take offense, take the critique for what it is.
#16
MyDreamRPG always want to know customers opinions on their products, for example any faults, comments, bugs or problems with the MMO Enhancement Kit.
You can either continue this on our Forum in public, our IRC channel (irc.mydreamrpg.com #MyDreamRPG), or our sales e-mail - sales@mydreamrpg.com.
I own the MMO Enhancement Kit and Titas EA both, as well as other products from MyDreamRPG. I think that the Kit and Titas are both amazing products, however currently one thing they lack is considerable amounts of eye candy and examples of the use of features.
This will be fixed by the introduction of our new community based demo project, as well as polish and features from the developers.
Thanks,
- Tom.
11/03/2006 (1:29 pm)
Shay Arnett,MyDreamRPG always want to know customers opinions on their products, for example any faults, comments, bugs or problems with the MMO Enhancement Kit.
You can either continue this on our Forum in public, our IRC channel (irc.mydreamrpg.com #MyDreamRPG), or our sales e-mail - sales@mydreamrpg.com.
I own the MMO Enhancement Kit and Titas EA both, as well as other products from MyDreamRPG. I think that the Kit and Titas are both amazing products, however currently one thing they lack is considerable amounts of eye candy and examples of the use of features.
This will be fixed by the introduction of our new community based demo project, as well as polish and features from the developers.
Thanks,
- Tom.
#17
I have a TSE License that cost me $150, but it is EA and I knew it was EA, so I wasn't expecting it to be ready for prime-time. If the MMOKit was listed as a EA product then I would understand the fact that they are working on some of the features.
[Edit]
I'll hop in IRC tonight and talk with you guys some more.
11/03/2006 (1:30 pm)
I don't expect it to be a "Easy Button" for game development, and I think the $100 price point is well worth it, if the features that were listed were fully implemented in the kit.I have a TSE License that cost me $150, but it is EA and I knew it was EA, so I wasn't expecting it to be ready for prime-time. If the MMOKit was listed as a EA product then I would understand the fact that they are working on some of the features.
[Edit]
I'll hop in IRC tonight and talk with you guys some more.
#18
It's definately not a WoW button, but it's the best reference to building an MMO in Torque besides the GG forums/resources in my oppinion.
My live project Ruin Online uses tons of the resources from this kit.
Building an MMO is a serious undertaking and I have yet to find a WoW button, nor would I really want one anyway.
11/03/2006 (1:32 pm)
I'm a very satisfied customer.It's definately not a WoW button, but it's the best reference to building an MMO in Torque besides the GG forums/resources in my oppinion.
My live project Ruin Online uses tons of the resources from this kit.
Building an MMO is a serious undertaking and I have yet to find a WoW button, nor would I really want one anyway.
#19
Anyways yeah hop in IRC I'm pretty much always there.
And don't worry you're not going to start a flamewar.
I expect feedback both positive and negative, and use that to improve not only my products but my business processes as well, hence the reason I was able to figure out what black hole Andy's support requests had managed to go to.
We've grown alot and we've tried to add support options as well as personel as quickly as possible, and in the process we've also had to abandon certain support lines, this includes all of the @dreamgamesinc.com email addresses since our email software there could no longer handle the load.
Anyways if 1.5 was a failure in some fashion I need to know so that 1.5.5 and 2.0 are not.
But in the future the best place to post feedback is where I'm sure to see it, which is mydreamrpg.com GarageGames is not really a good place for the discussion since I'm not here. In fact I only heard about this thread after someone hopped in IRC and PM'd me, otherwise I may never have seen this thread.
Regards,
Dreamer
11/03/2006 (1:33 pm)
Yes Shay I'm dead serious about the refund. It will be in your PayPal in by monday at the latest, since I don't actually do the refunds myself I had to notify Ash and she'll take it from there.Anyways yeah hop in IRC I'm pretty much always there.
And don't worry you're not going to start a flamewar.
I expect feedback both positive and negative, and use that to improve not only my products but my business processes as well, hence the reason I was able to figure out what black hole Andy's support requests had managed to go to.
We've grown alot and we've tried to add support options as well as personel as quickly as possible, and in the process we've also had to abandon certain support lines, this includes all of the @dreamgamesinc.com email addresses since our email software there could no longer handle the load.
Anyways if 1.5 was a failure in some fashion I need to know so that 1.5.5 and 2.0 are not.
But in the future the best place to post feedback is where I'm sure to see it, which is mydreamrpg.com GarageGames is not really a good place for the discussion since I'm not here. In fact I only heard about this thread after someone hopped in IRC and PM'd me, otherwise I may never have seen this thread.
Regards,
Dreamer
#20
$100 or ZERO should not make a difference. I see all these "It's only $100!" but the fact is, if I can't use it, it's $100 wasted that I could've spent on other items from the Torque store. I don't think anyone makes a valid point when saying, "It's only $100! and it saves you thousands of hours of work!" It doesn't when it's not usable.
-Andy
11/03/2006 (1:37 pm)
Well my problem is, I can't find the 1.5 MMO Kit download. I see the older version at the download page of the site, but I received an email saying there was a new 1.5 MMO Kit release.$100 or ZERO should not make a difference. I see all these "It's only $100!" but the fact is, if I can't use it, it's $100 wasted that I could've spent on other items from the Torque store. I don't think anyone makes a valid point when saying, "It's only $100! and it saves you thousands of hours of work!" It doesn't when it's not usable.
-Andy
Torque Owner BrokeAss Games
BrokeAss Games
Try getting help there.
There is a java IRC client on their webpage.