Model Types

#1 I have the same problem. I use ZBrush 2 and Poser 6 for modeling and animation. ZBrush converting to DTS is a difficult task. Using, OBJ2DTS, MilkShape, Blender, they seem to take the OBJ and render it useless, mesh is blown out of proportion in the ShowToolPro after converting, like a bomb went off in certain parts of the model. The same OBJ is fine when importing to these programs, the conversion to DTS is ruined. Through all of the above conversion tools used I get a different result, but all ruined. Is there a max Polygon count before the conversion? Must be different depending on what tool you use. I wish there was a one stop shop for a common conversion tool for Torques common files. In other words, it should be a program that uses a slew of import format types and converts them to the proper torque extensions like creating the DSQ, DIF and DTS files. Not a dozen different 3rd party tools to try and get an animated model or building into torque GE or SE. Then you need to get a pythonm script or plugin for it to even have the exporter. Has anybody used DELGINE and steps they took, did it work?

We can use this thread for people to post all of their methods, checks and balances, tools, any tricks of the trade, in other words, all of your tactics and tools to get an OBJ or MAP or ANIMATION file into Torque. It doesnt help that there are 4 million different programs on the free/paying market that claim to do the same thing, but lack the actual ability to do it, or help the artists trying to use it correctly.

#2 Have your modelers work with an intermediary format such as FBX or Collada. Then, have a single modeler who has a package that works with the intermediary formats and a DTS exporter, scale, tweak, and make-friendly the FBX models for DTS export and in-engine use.

Of course, this does not apply to .map files for DIF creation. Those are another matter entirely.

EDIT: Spelling

#3 Lightwave goes right to DTS.

#4 Yes, but Sketchup and whatever else they may be using may not.

#5 I dont want to spend that much more for programs that I dont need. Lightwave is not cheap from what I saw as far as the price list goes. I really wish GarageGames would create something like this that is a one stop shop for all of their files they need. It would minimize the need for artist to learn 6 different programs other than the one they already use. I dont know if their new 'Creative...' something or another that is suppose to be in beta now has imports for what available software.

#6

Quote: I really wish GarageGames would create something like this that is a one stop shop for all of their files they need

They are. :-)

#7 Outstanding!! Do you know what it is or when it is going to be released? Is this the tool they were working on last year "Creative.." something or another? I think it does modeling and animation, I could be wrong..

This is just the type of stuff I am running into with OBJ2DTS converter from ZBrush - export to converter to ShowToolPro. Issue is at only 8K Polys, the lower level at 2K Polys works fine, I just change the SDiv levels and export it, works at 2K, but not at 8K. It looks like the model has its mesh exploding at some parts. Wondering if there is a limitation to the ShowToolPro or Torque in-game models.

#8 I don't think there will ever be a one stop solution to anything pertaining to 3d and art.

Each of those tools have completely different was of handling meshes, and file types they export.

Not to mention support for all the tools you list would be next to imposable to maintain. If it were easy, then there would be only one tool in the world for 3d creation.

Case in point, The boneing and animation in lightwave is incompatible with the ones in 3dsmax. If i import a 3dsmax file in (And lightwave can) the "Bones" in 3ds are converted to meshes, because, well, they are not bones, they are meshes. Going the other way is imposable.

There was a file type being pushed for a bit before 3ds killed it, basically. FBX.

Also be aware that the more tools and programs you drag data or a mesh threw, the more likely you will encounter errors..... And tracking where those started threw a 10 step pipeline is insanity.

I just don't see it happening. And the tool the above post is referring to is constructor, and it only does DIFF (BSP brushes), while it can load and view DTS shapes.

This doesn't mean you can make DTS's in it.

#9 Allyn is right, unless there is a standardizating revolution in the 3D application industry which limits all applications to the same featureset which can be formally saved and used across applications, then I do not see it happening. And I do not see the companies in charge or tech-excitable projects like Blender whose developers are constantly keeping a strong eye on SIGGRAPH and such to see the next bleeding-tech implementation adopting a universal model, either. Even if it would be extremely helpful. FBX and Collada are good attempts at the lowest-common denominator compatability between major vendors. By lowest-common-demonimator, I do not mean "crappy features" but features common which can be most easily shared between applications.

As Allyn noted, Constructor is designed around CSG modeling and "interior" creation, not DTS generation. It is not (currently) a replacement for the mission editor or a third-party modeling application such as Max, Lightwave, XSI, DeleD, Shaper, or Blender.

@Thomas
You specific problem with ZBrush -> OBJ2DTS -> ShowTool Pro can have any number of issues. First, ZBrush may interpret the Alias/Wavefront OBJ format in a non-standard way since ZBrush's job is to created extremely detailed high-poly artwork. There may have been compromises made to the format to get a "best guess" version of OBJ out of Zbrush with the geometry mostly intact. Secondly, the means by which OBJ2DTS reads an OBJ file could be at issue. The OBJ format is rather simple in terms of formats, but I do not know how literal the import is or how accurate. Secondarily, OBJ2DTS has to perform a conversion to the DTS specifications, which are available in source form but have had a number of changes over the years. Whether DTS, DTS_Plus, etc was used as the model for conversion and export could be at issue. ShowTool Pro, I believe, uses the same DTS loading code as TGE 1.3. I do not know if changes have been made to the STP source or not in terms of DTS loading. But that could cause some semblance of issues as well. Architecture issues such as floating point accuracy during conversion have been known to throw wrenches in import/export programs in the past as well. I am sure there are a number of other things that could be wrenching the productivity from a convoluted workflow, but those are some of the major ones that I can think of. Perhaps with the source to the OBJ exporter for ZBrush, the source to OBJ2DTS, and the source to STP, you could determine the problem. I believe the author of OBJ2DTS documented some of the conversion process in a blog. Perhaps that could shed some light on your problems or at least give you more solid modeling guidelines to help during the conversion process.

#10 You should look at a program called Milkshape 3D www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/ it's a very simplistic and rather basic 3d modeling and animation package for low poly modeling, but it's strength lies in that it both imports and exports to like 30 different game formats and can import objects from nearly any 3d modeling program and exports directly to torque format. It is also one of the VERY FEW programs that can correctly handle obj imports from numerous varying programs ( and for the nitpickers out there, please don't waste your time arguing this as we have done extensive testing, as well as talked to the people who created the obj file format and even they say that their is only like 3 programs that truly import obj from nearly any program without data loss or corruption of some sort :) )

Anyhow you may want to try this program as a middleground converter for your various artists... our modelers are currently using 3ds max, maya, lightwave, cinema 4d and silo and though a few have exporters for torque silo, and cinema 4d do not but we have had no problems so far using milkshape 3d as a middle ground converter... in fact the hardest part of it all was getting the scaling issues down pat between all the various programs (which didnt take that long)... and the program only costs $25.00 so its pretty affordable even if youre on a budget.

#11 OBJ doesn't retain bone, Wight or animations. Because they are specific to the modeling package you use.

#12 Basically what it comes down to is Torque needs to build an importer from OBJ files to their DTS format. They should test this plugin\app with all of the major model engines out in the market and continue to update as the market moves on. This will make their engines more desirable with this ability. It would open a whole new market to their engines and developers would love that built into their, one stop shop. All of the model engines that I know of have the ability to export to OBJ, Torque does not import/change to DTS the OBJs - minus 3rd party tools of course.

As far as the animation goes I use Poser 6 for all of the animation, but getting that format into the Torque Game Engine is a lost cause. Unless of course they make a importer for animation from the markets that are out there as well or somebody knows of anyway to get a Poser 6 animation into Torques DSQ.

I know all of this overhead would be big, but I guess I can live in the pipe dream that it will happen sometime or another, just look at MilkShape.

And as far as MilkShape goes, yes it is a HUGE feature that it imports/exports tons of formats. MilkShpae is cheap too!! Unfortunately ZBrush only has OBJs and DXF exporting/import ability.

#13 OBJ would be rather useless in animation situations, as would 3DS, even though most applications support the baseline features of both formats. For static modeling, OBJ/3DS/etc are great. But for animation, not at all. Right now, the exporters in existence are the best tools. Trying to match a hugely disparate set of tools is a nightmare. A HUGE nightmare.

BTW, look at Greenbriar studios Toolbox. It has some nice Poser to GameDev tools.

#14 @David

Just to add another bit of support to your comments. Not all applications write OBJ and 3DS files the same, nor do they read this data the same. This can cause huge issues with data loading in incorrectly, which is obviously something you don't want to risk if you want to make a game. Another negative point about supporting OBJ or 3DS is that they both have a number of bugs in their formats that simply won't get corrected since these are depricated file formats.