In need of programmers and others
by Brian Irvin · in General Discussion · 10/07/2006 (3:24 pm) · 51 replies
Please do not flame me for this, but i do need some programmers talented in making games with toque+mmo kit, or java games in 3d. I am in the process of designing an mmo game something like galaxys but different. I look to include ground battles whether it be rpg style or fps style with air and space combat and seemless zoning from planet to space when flying your own ship. I would like players to land any where in the world except illogical place such as landing on water which is a given. Player houses and cities is something else i would like to include but maybe have it limitited so the worlds dont get over crowded. heres an over view. "Edonia Online will be a cross platform MMO game combining well known races from fantasy games along with some new ones. Edonia takes place in the future where the human race is finally able to traverse the galaxy. They have discovered that earth is not the only planet with intelligent beings. There are in fact races only before seen in tales of fantasy." So far thats what i have as far as the game design doc goes. I am kinda trying to decide whether or not to use mydreamrpg mmo kit for this because i am not sure if it is capable. I have one person willing to help with programming but isnt realy able to help out alot because of his busy schedule. I can handel doing most of the artwork as for skinning im still trying to do that, and textures is kinda hard as well animating i could probaly do but im not sure. Im not asking anyone to make a game for me i am asking for people who are willing to get together as a team. I am straight up no programmer and probaly never will be one. Havin said that one big big big thing about this game is that i want it to be playable on macs, linux based computers, and windows based. I am also looking for sound people, maybe some more artists to kinda take of a load for me, definatly some pogrammers. As for hardware goes i only have 1 web server with win server 2003 web edition, which i may switch to SUSE linux or any other stable yet free OS which is one reason im wanting to kinda use linux for servers. I will also need some people to help me make a website for the game though i could probaly do that my self, but i dont want it to look like crap i want it to kick ass just like the game i plan on designing. ok now ill shut up and wait for replys lol, please no flaming me. and it is ok if my other posts get deleted this is the one id realy like to stay up.
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#42
after i finish my computer and network specialist degrees i plan on going to full sail and geting a degree in game development. and i will still keep the indie's in mind
10/12/2006 (6:07 am)
Thanks for your enouragement and support James.I have made a post 3d tatical fps which will take place before my mmo game. howerever i will say this yea i am in a way trying to compete with swg but then again im not going to get upset if it doesnt hit its mark. Its rewarding enough to just say hey i made an mmo game. kinda interesting to see how people react when they see mmo though after i finish my computer and network specialist degrees i plan on going to full sail and geting a degree in game development. and i will still keep the indie's in mind
#43
Currently, I would say that he is dreaming rather than doing. But that is from the posts, not from watching over his shoulder to see what is going on. From the posts, he has not actually done more than most people ever do who want to make a MMO. He has made an extremely skeletal document and is recruiting. That is standard fare. Many, with the advent of the MMOKit and RealmCrafter, have even purchased engines in hopes that the tools make the game. They make development easier, but no tool is perfect regardless of the price. But right now he has done what most people who want to make one but peter out in a month or two have done. That's not saying that his interest or desire or project will die. It is just saying that he has done what most people who wind up on a development site do--though he has done more than most who frequent MMO sites and general gaming sites like GameFAQs or IGN and dream of making a MMO. But for people who hit dev sites, he has pretty much done the usual. Now he needs to go beyond that to prove that his project is worthwhile and not destined to die a silent death at the back of a couple of forums.
I think that working on a mini-game (say a card game between players) would be a better small-start for him than a single-player RPG since that is still huge in scope. Even using a tool like RPG Maker XP with the default artwork and limited Ruby scripting, making a single-player RPG is a lot of work. We often tend to forget that. But taking a networked mini-game that will fit into the overall scope of his universe, working in chunks rather than dreaming of competing with multimillion dollar funded projects both without funding and without experience.
I wish him the best of luck with his project, as I do all projects that come through. But I've been there in the "too huge" concept stage. Most people that I know in and out of the industry have been as well. Right-sizing is a painful lesson, but it pays off since you begin to get things done and meet other people who are getting things done. Then, you can often find people to get things done with you.
@Brian
Most Full Sail and other game school students, instructors, and graduates keep indies in mind. They may shoot for entry-level industry positions to work their way up, but they very often keep indies in mind if for nothing else to gain recognition and real-work experience. And some innovative teams end up on the inside because they choose to work outside the box. For example, the final project from DigiPen Narbuncular Drop which was the impetus for ValVe's Portal. But they keep indies in mind because of one thing: freedom. Most people in the industry do not have the investor freedom of Myamoto. In fact next to no one does, even at some of the biggest companies out there. But indies do. The flip-side is that they also do not have the easy-in's with distributors and a full-scale legal team and the availability of large-scale fundies.
Note that I am not saying that you can't do it. But currently, you are shooting way too wide. I think a large number of us here can speak from this same "I have a dream" experience where we began to realize that time, team, and money become a rather large problem in scaling so large.
As before, I still recommend starting small and working your way up. Give people something to show besides an extremely skeletal idea. Give them something that makes them know that this is not one of a million posts on thousands of game sites dedicated to wanting to make the next EverQuest/SWG/WoW/Lineage II/etc killer that will die in a few months because of either lack of interest or inability.
10/12/2006 (8:12 am)
@JamesCurrently, I would say that he is dreaming rather than doing. But that is from the posts, not from watching over his shoulder to see what is going on. From the posts, he has not actually done more than most people ever do who want to make a MMO. He has made an extremely skeletal document and is recruiting. That is standard fare. Many, with the advent of the MMOKit and RealmCrafter, have even purchased engines in hopes that the tools make the game. They make development easier, but no tool is perfect regardless of the price. But right now he has done what most people who want to make one but peter out in a month or two have done. That's not saying that his interest or desire or project will die. It is just saying that he has done what most people who wind up on a development site do--though he has done more than most who frequent MMO sites and general gaming sites like GameFAQs or IGN and dream of making a MMO. But for people who hit dev sites, he has pretty much done the usual. Now he needs to go beyond that to prove that his project is worthwhile and not destined to die a silent death at the back of a couple of forums.
I think that working on a mini-game (say a card game between players) would be a better small-start for him than a single-player RPG since that is still huge in scope. Even using a tool like RPG Maker XP with the default artwork and limited Ruby scripting, making a single-player RPG is a lot of work. We often tend to forget that. But taking a networked mini-game that will fit into the overall scope of his universe, working in chunks rather than dreaming of competing with multimillion dollar funded projects both without funding and without experience.
I wish him the best of luck with his project, as I do all projects that come through. But I've been there in the "too huge" concept stage. Most people that I know in and out of the industry have been as well. Right-sizing is a painful lesson, but it pays off since you begin to get things done and meet other people who are getting things done. Then, you can often find people to get things done with you.
@Brian
Most Full Sail and other game school students, instructors, and graduates keep indies in mind. They may shoot for entry-level industry positions to work their way up, but they very often keep indies in mind if for nothing else to gain recognition and real-work experience. And some innovative teams end up on the inside because they choose to work outside the box. For example, the final project from DigiPen Narbuncular Drop which was the impetus for ValVe's Portal. But they keep indies in mind because of one thing: freedom. Most people in the industry do not have the investor freedom of Myamoto. In fact next to no one does, even at some of the biggest companies out there. But indies do. The flip-side is that they also do not have the easy-in's with distributors and a full-scale legal team and the availability of large-scale fundies.
Note that I am not saying that you can't do it. But currently, you are shooting way too wide. I think a large number of us here can speak from this same "I have a dream" experience where we began to realize that time, team, and money become a rather large problem in scaling so large.
As before, I still recommend starting small and working your way up. Give people something to show besides an extremely skeletal idea. Give them something that makes them know that this is not one of a million posts on thousands of game sites dedicated to wanting to make the next EverQuest/SWG/WoW/Lineage II/etc killer that will die in a few months because of either lack of interest or inability.
#44
The only reason to me that projects die out and possibly is bringing mine close ot that is lack of help. I do apreciate those who have stood up and took the chance my modeler has been working his tail off im sure, and even im greatful for the programmers that said theyd help out.
Games are made by teams they either make it or dont even pro studies has this problem at times, yes i dont have my very own pro studio, but will still face the same things. No one keeps making perfact games everyonce in a while they make one that doesnt hit or just frankly sucks. Game development is something that you never know th outcome until you actual take the chance and do it whether it has a good or bad outcome. I am not saying that people are bad in this forum rather friendly actualy and honest, but I feel everyone needs to say to hell with it everyonce in a whiile and help out even if they are skeptical. My design document may have sucked or not been as good as others but to me thats just a skeliton of what the game will be and doesnt show the actual finished game. Look at concept art when doing a model it doesnt show how the model will look and to me the design document is just a "concept picture" of the game.
10/12/2006 (9:29 am)
Im sorry but im not a big fan of 2d never have been since the n64 game out and ps1. I am 3d all the way, and from what i can see i have goten more posts for an mmo game request for help than my other one. Yes i agree most projects die out, but im a persistant lil ****er that doesnt give up. I beeped out that so i wouldnt get in trouble lol. And ill say it again yes im hopeing its better than swg shouldnt be to hard with all the bugs it has now, but even if it doesnt reach that level id be just happy making one to begin with. The only reason to me that projects die out and possibly is bringing mine close ot that is lack of help. I do apreciate those who have stood up and took the chance my modeler has been working his tail off im sure, and even im greatful for the programmers that said theyd help out.
Games are made by teams they either make it or dont even pro studies has this problem at times, yes i dont have my very own pro studio, but will still face the same things. No one keeps making perfact games everyonce in a while they make one that doesnt hit or just frankly sucks. Game development is something that you never know th outcome until you actual take the chance and do it whether it has a good or bad outcome. I am not saying that people are bad in this forum rather friendly actualy and honest, but I feel everyone needs to say to hell with it everyonce in a whiile and help out even if they are skeptical. My design document may have sucked or not been as good as others but to me thats just a skeliton of what the game will be and doesnt show the actual finished game. Look at concept art when doing a model it doesnt show how the model will look and to me the design document is just a "concept picture" of the game.
#45
10/12/2006 (10:09 am)
Right now the design document is like looking at the anvil (a tiny inner-ear bone) from space. It needs to be fleshed out in some very major ways (hopefully with the help of a team of likeminded and engaged people) before it is remotely useful. There's nothing stopping you from going for it, though. Except time, money, and experience. Which is why I suggest starting with small managable chunks that will fit into the eventual picture.
#46
10/12/2006 (10:12 am)
What needs to be layed out we allready established what kinda game somewhat
#47
http://www.cowgodgames.com/games/igpgdesigndoc.php is a much more complete design document for a much simpler game. It took about an hour and a half to write, though I will update it and fill in some details before actually programming the game (assuming that I decide to work on it after all). If you're not willing to spend a couple of hours to write a real design document, no one's going to work with you.
Except possibly James.
You said something about your typing being terrible. That's a real problem, though I didn't say anything about it. If you aren't going to bother to check your text to make sure it's readable, it makes it hard for people to understand what you're trying to say. If you're writing text for use in a game, I would hope that you would spellcheck it first.
10/12/2006 (11:45 am)
Quote: "What needs to be layed out we allready established what kinda game somewhat"http://www.cowgodgames.com/games/igpgdesigndoc.php is a much more complete design document for a much simpler game. It took about an hour and a half to write, though I will update it and fill in some details before actually programming the game (assuming that I decide to work on it after all). If you're not willing to spend a couple of hours to write a real design document, no one's going to work with you.
Except possibly James.
You said something about your typing being terrible. That's a real problem, though I didn't say anything about it. If you aren't going to bother to check your text to make sure it's readable, it makes it hard for people to understand what you're trying to say. If you're writing text for use in a game, I would hope that you would spellcheck it first.
#48
10/12/2006 (11:56 am)
Sorry about that i was asking what else needed to be layed out? other than the type of game 
#49
10/12/2006 (3:04 pm)
@ Steven - nice Steven, real nice. At what alter should I place my sacriface for you?
#50
10/12/2006 (3:29 pm)
His altar is currently being altered. You can place them on mine. Then when he complains and starts storming through villages in reparation, I'll go on vacation like a good little diety. When I return, I'll build from the ashes. It's easier than confronting other powers that be. That leads to wars over petty injustices like where and when it is appropriate to hyphenate on which side of the pond and in which journal under which rule of style. Why can't we go back to simpler times, when a few bulls and virgins were tossed on the pyre after being drained of blood and stripped of flesh? I liked those days. They were so much tastier than the bland "offer them wheat" sacrifices of today. Locusts upon your fields, I say to your wheat!
#51
10/12/2006 (3:54 pm)
Have u been drinking or are u allwayys that loony
Torque 3D Owner James
If I may quote you:
Isn't that exactly what Brian is doing? He's doing! Yes his project MAY perhaps be crazy big and by our thinking very difficult to accomplish (to say the least), but it is something he is obviously passionate about.
The project will keep Brian focused and he'll learn. Perhaps he's the Mozart of gaming, what do we know?
But he will learn something which brings him closer to mastery. He may even decide that Yes, people were right in saying this is too big for a first project. He will have learned something regardless.
He'll learn how to plan better.
He'll learn how much is involved in creating a game.
He'll learn the game engine, not from a completed game perhaps but from his forays into developing this project.
He'll learn the art pipeline.
And so on.
This will all help him if he decides a career in games is what he wants or perhaps it becomes a hobby... who knows.
Success is measured in different ways and at least getting your foot in as Brian is doing, is more than most people ever do.
@Brian. I think all I'm saying is, don't get discouraged with this first project if you don't finish it. Always evaluate where you are and what you want to do. There is no shame is changing your plan based on new knowledge. We'd be extinct if it were otherwise.
Cheers!