Wildlife Tycoon: Venture Africa seems easy to make
by Wolf Dreamer · in RTS Starter Kit · 09/22/2006 (9:04 am) · 10 replies
After playing the demo of Wildlife Tycoon: Venture Africa, I mentioned to a Garage Game employee, Matt Langley, over at my forum, that everything in that game seems to be in the RTS Starter Kit except the AI which can be done with what users have posted for peon harvesting management. That is, seek out the nearest resource of a certain time, and go to it.
I then stated my belief that any experienced user, could therefor make it in a single day, working alone, since it is a rather simple game from a programmer's standpoint. This does not include the artwork, of course.
Here are all the aspects of the game, and how I believe they could easily be done. Tell me what you think, and if there is something more complicated that I'm not seeing.
The camera and terrain are already done, straight from the starter kit.
Buttons.
In the starter kit example, there is a button already there which bears the image of a building, and you can click it, and then the location of where you want a building to be placed.
In this game you do the exact same thing, only there are animals and plants to place around the map, instead of buildings.
So, you just look at that code, and copy it to make a button for each organism you can create. Where it list the address to the image of the building, you change it to where the new image is at, and thus you have a proper looking button. Also, where it links to the model of the building to load, you then set it to proper location of where your new models of plants and animals are at.
You now have it where you can select something, and put it on the map, it then appearing.
Rather simple to implement I would think.
Or instead of the building code, perhaps one would look at the example someone made about peons havesting things, since the animals at least would share their AI.
Animal AI same as peasants seeking out resources to harvest
Each animal has its prefered food source, be it a plant, or another animal. They seek out the nearest resource from their location, and move towards it, then harvest it until they have reached their carrying limit. After they have all the food they need, they seek out the other desired resource, this being water. They move to it, harvest until they can hold no more, and then the cycle repeats.
The display
There is also the display which shows an icon for each animal, along with a number of how many of those types of animals there are. You have that done with the soldiers in the RTS Starter Kit, so you just change where on the screen its drawn at, no major programming feet there.
That is basically all there is to that game.
Making a more complicated RTS would take far more time of course, however for something so simple, it shouldn't take any time at all once you are familiar with things. I'm still looking through tutorials, and trying to get everything set up now, but feel confident its a simple type of game I could make in the foreseeable future.
So, what does everyone think? Do you agree that making such a game should be very simple for any that have the RTS Starter Kit, or like Matt Langley keeps telling me, does it require a team of people working a considerable amount of time to accomplish?
I then stated my belief that any experienced user, could therefor make it in a single day, working alone, since it is a rather simple game from a programmer's standpoint. This does not include the artwork, of course.
Here are all the aspects of the game, and how I believe they could easily be done. Tell me what you think, and if there is something more complicated that I'm not seeing.
The camera and terrain are already done, straight from the starter kit.
Buttons.
In the starter kit example, there is a button already there which bears the image of a building, and you can click it, and then the location of where you want a building to be placed.
In this game you do the exact same thing, only there are animals and plants to place around the map, instead of buildings.
So, you just look at that code, and copy it to make a button for each organism you can create. Where it list the address to the image of the building, you change it to where the new image is at, and thus you have a proper looking button. Also, where it links to the model of the building to load, you then set it to proper location of where your new models of plants and animals are at.
You now have it where you can select something, and put it on the map, it then appearing.
Rather simple to implement I would think.
Or instead of the building code, perhaps one would look at the example someone made about peons havesting things, since the animals at least would share their AI.
Animal AI same as peasants seeking out resources to harvest
Each animal has its prefered food source, be it a plant, or another animal. They seek out the nearest resource from their location, and move towards it, then harvest it until they have reached their carrying limit. After they have all the food they need, they seek out the other desired resource, this being water. They move to it, harvest until they can hold no more, and then the cycle repeats.
The display
There is also the display which shows an icon for each animal, along with a number of how many of those types of animals there are. You have that done with the soldiers in the RTS Starter Kit, so you just change where on the screen its drawn at, no major programming feet there.
That is basically all there is to that game.
Making a more complicated RTS would take far more time of course, however for something so simple, it shouldn't take any time at all once you are familiar with things. I'm still looking through tutorials, and trying to get everything set up now, but feel confident its a simple type of game I could make in the foreseeable future.
So, what does everyone think? Do you agree that making such a game should be very simple for any that have the RTS Starter Kit, or like Matt Langley keeps telling me, does it require a team of people working a considerable amount of time to accomplish?
About the author
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#2
People that do not understand game development think it looks easy. It is not. Think of buying a game engine like buying a guitar. You still have to learn to play it. You just don't have to build the guitar before you start learning how to play music.
-Jeff Tunnell, GG
09/22/2006 (9:46 am)
Venture Africa's development process is well documented in Andy Schatz's blog posts on the GarageGames site. Andy is one of the best programmers I know and this project took him nine months using TGE as well as parts of the RTS Starter Kit. People that do not understand game development think it looks easy. It is not. Think of buying a game engine like buying a guitar. You still have to learn to play it. You just don't have to build the guitar before you start learning how to play music.
-Jeff Tunnell, GG
#3
Give it a shot! It was pretty easy for us to plan out all the features in the MMOKIT, here we are 9 months later still working to get a good documented version out...
09/22/2006 (9:58 am)
Often here in the office while dissussing some technological advancement I get to hear the confident "that's easy". While it may be easy to predict the logical outcome of a series of definable steps, it usually represents about 20% of the work. The other 80% is getting everything right. Add in scales for things like art assets and youve got a multi-month project on your hands from an "easy" estimate of a day to rough in all the basic features.Give it a shot! It was pretty easy for us to plan out all the features in the MMOKIT, here we are 9 months later still working to get a good documented version out...
#4
Andy has how much experience, about a decade?, and it took him about 9 months as he's stated. I'm sure things started coming together in his project rather quickly, as you stated, it could all be done in a day, I'd say more likely a week or two. After you get those basic mechanics down though, you refine and you refine to make the gameplay better and better. Games require game-balancing, playtesting, and a whole lot more. Andy has had quite some success with his development, it is spawning a sequel and this success hasn't come over night.
09/22/2006 (10:50 am)
It is a good idea to break down a game think of it from how it was designed. It will help you with your own game design. Saying it is easy to make on the other hand, is probably far from the truth. If it was so easy create a game, everyone would be doing it. Andy has how much experience, about a decade?, and it took him about 9 months as he's stated. I'm sure things started coming together in his project rather quickly, as you stated, it could all be done in a day, I'd say more likely a week or two. After you get those basic mechanics down though, you refine and you refine to make the gameplay better and better. Games require game-balancing, playtesting, and a whole lot more. Andy has had quite some success with his development, it is spawning a sequel and this success hasn't come over night.
#5
Your example is synecdochic. You are attempting to make a prototype (your description) stand for a polished, finished product (VA).
09/22/2006 (11:36 am)
For an extremely basic prototype of VA, it would not be difficult. And I'm sure that Andy and his team sat down and made a very simple prototype that had very short turn-around time (as prototypes should). And what you are looking at is that prototype, completely unpolished, with ugly lumps, horrible speed and control due to lack of optimization and complete focus on a specific part of the prototype, etc. It most likely bears only a passing resemblance to the final product, though the core is there (or is ephemeral as much of it has been refined to a point that the prototype is a shadow or ghost of the final product).Your example is synecdochic. You are attempting to make a prototype (your description) stand for a polished, finished product (VA).
#6
One of the great things about owning the same technology as Andy -- which presumably you do as you're posting here -- is that you can try your thought experiment yourself. Give it a try. Only 21 more hours until your day is up! :o)
09/22/2006 (11:47 am)
Greetings!One of the great things about owning the same technology as Andy -- which presumably you do as you're posting here -- is that you can try your thought experiment yourself. Give it a try. Only 21 more hours until your day is up! :o)
#7
The only information to make them work together, involves downloading various files I can't find anywhere.
http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=44135
Its nothing but dead links.
So I can't really get started until someone replies to my post there, and tells me where else to find them, there isn't anything I can do.
----
And this game is a very simple thing to do. Speed isn't a problem, since there isn't a lot going on. And everything is already done, you just change the graphics, and a few other things around. I honestly can't imagine anyone taking any serious length of time to program it in.
The guy just spend 9 months on the graphics and design, not the coding, obviously.
09/22/2006 (12:27 pm)
Well, for some insane reason, the RTS Starter Kit only compiles properly with Torque 1.3, and I have Torque 1.4. I bought both at the same time, so I would assume there wouldn't be a problem, but the official documentation on the site says I have to upgrade it myself before I can do anything with it.The only information to make them work together, involves downloading various files I can't find anywhere.
http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=44135
Its nothing but dead links.
So I can't really get started until someone replies to my post there, and tells me where else to find them, there isn't anything I can do.
----
And this game is a very simple thing to do. Speed isn't a problem, since there isn't a lot going on. And everything is already done, you just change the graphics, and a few other things around. I honestly can't imagine anyone taking any serious length of time to program it in.
The guy just spend 9 months on the graphics and design, not the coding, obviously.
#8
Meanwhile, you can continue to watch the forums to see if someone releases a patch. If not, then checking out 1.3 and comparing the source changes with BeyondCompare or some similar utility should give you a good view of the changes made to the stock engine. I might still have this sitting around somewhere, but I doubt it. I haven't even thought of looking at the changelist in a long, long time. But then, you can make the same comparison between 1.3 and 1.4 and figure out where you need to change the 1.4 source to accomodate the RTS changes. Sure, it's a lot of legwork, but it might be legwork that would be well worth it in 1.5 (which you don't seem hot on picking up). Believe me, learning to work with code compare tools and source merging software will save your life in the industry (and I'm not just talking the game programming industry, but the software industry). I would also recommend working with something like subversion in your development so that you have a great way to see exactly what has changed between revisions.
As I said, I'm sure that in a short time (though it may take you longer than 24 hours), you could prototype out a similar gameplay instance, but it would take some serious time to tweak and maintain your codebase. This happens with all software, not just games. The initial persperation to create your features is around 10-20% of the development time and tweaking or maintaining it is the rest.
09/22/2006 (1:11 pm)
Prototype in the RTS kit under 1.3 and re-create something similar to VA in a day. Don't use the "it's not 1.4" excuse to stop your development. If you continue to make excuses like that commenting on how you are stuck because a community member's hosting went poof, you're not going to get far with most engines, whether it be the QuakeSource community, C4, Torque, Irrlicht, etc. But it is a convenient excuse. Just don't make it. You can take the RTS kit and build on it to prototype. Meanwhile, you can continue to watch the forums to see if someone releases a patch. If not, then checking out 1.3 and comparing the source changes with BeyondCompare or some similar utility should give you a good view of the changes made to the stock engine. I might still have this sitting around somewhere, but I doubt it. I haven't even thought of looking at the changelist in a long, long time. But then, you can make the same comparison between 1.3 and 1.4 and figure out where you need to change the 1.4 source to accomodate the RTS changes. Sure, it's a lot of legwork, but it might be legwork that would be well worth it in 1.5 (which you don't seem hot on picking up). Believe me, learning to work with code compare tools and source merging software will save your life in the industry (and I'm not just talking the game programming industry, but the software industry). I would also recommend working with something like subversion in your development so that you have a great way to see exactly what has changed between revisions.
As I said, I'm sure that in a short time (though it may take you longer than 24 hours), you could prototype out a similar gameplay instance, but it would take some serious time to tweak and maintain your codebase. This happens with all software, not just games. The initial persperation to create your features is around 10-20% of the development time and tweaking or maintaining it is the rest.
#9
This advice is not solely for Wolf. I recomend it to anyone and everyone.
I recomend hitting up NeHe's OpenGL tutorials and writing a 3d engine from scratch for a few months. This will give you a very basis for looking at Torque's architecture because you will have an idea of, "This is what I want to do, where should I find it." It will also give you a very good idea of how much time it takes to do things w.r.t. technology, and it will also make you say things like, "Damn. Having an endian-safe stream implementation for memory, packet, and file i/o freakin rules."
09/22/2006 (1:38 pm)
Ahhhh. I miss the days of thinking things like Wildlife Tycoon were easy to make. Nothing in games is easy. This advice is not solely for Wolf. I recomend it to anyone and everyone.
I recomend hitting up NeHe's OpenGL tutorials and writing a 3d engine from scratch for a few months. This will give you a very basis for looking at Torque's architecture because you will have an idea of, "This is what I want to do, where should I find it." It will also give you a very good idea of how much time it takes to do things w.r.t. technology, and it will also make you say things like, "Damn. Having an endian-safe stream implementation for memory, packet, and file i/o freakin rules."
#10
You don't need the update to run it. Still be nice if someone could upload those files again.
The RTS Starter Kit runs on its own, it not having to be updated to match the current version of Torque.
So yes, if I can stop rushing to the toliet every 10 minutes, I'll get to work on it. Doctor said it takes 5 days of antibiotics to cure, then my head will clear up better.
09/22/2006 (1:45 pm)
I misunderstood, but someone cleared it up for me over at my forum.You don't need the update to run it. Still be nice if someone could upload those files again.
The RTS Starter Kit runs on its own, it not having to be updated to match the current version of Torque.
So yes, if I can stop rushing to the toliet every 10 minutes, I'll get to work on it. Doctor said it takes 5 days of antibiotics to cure, then my head will clear up better.
Torque 3D Owner Jacopo De Luca
Default Studio Name
I suggest you to try to do what you said: create a simple game in a day.
Use standard artwork and models from TGE and the RTS kit, son you don't have to consider the time required to produce specific artwork for the game, and focus only on the mechanics.
Then came back to the forum, and post what you have learned from the experience and if you still think that that game (venture africa) could be made in a day.
Bye,
Jacopo