Complaints about your website hiding information
by Wolf Dreamer · in Site Feedback · 09/07/2006 (11:03 am) · 26 replies
Http://www.garagegames.com/docs/tge/general/pt01.html
Now, why exactly do you have to buy the product, before you can read information as to why the product is worth buying? Does that make any possible sense to anyone?
If you click on any of that you get this message:
Would that information be of any use to anyone who doesn't own a license, or is considering buying one? I don't think they'd be able to use it elsewhere.
I want to make certain the scripting is something I can easily implement before I decide to buy the Torque Engine and RTS starter kit.
If anyone has a link to some place that shows me an entire program, scripts and all, just to let me see how its all laid out, please post it here. And honestly, that sort of thing should be easily found on the website. I believe the engine comes with some example programs. Why not list the code for one of them for people to look over, and see just how much easier it is than using C++? And if you have a section in your documentation called Scripting vs. C++, explaining why your engine is better than just using C++, then why not show it to potential customers? Honestly now people. Think about it.
Quote:
Getting Started
Table of Contents
1. Getting Started (Licensed Users Only)
Development Basics
Scripting vs. C++
Tools and Editors
Where To Go From Here
Now, why exactly do you have to buy the product, before you can read information as to why the product is worth buying? Does that make any possible sense to anyone?
If you click on any of that you get this message:
Quote:
This section is not included in the Torque preview documentation.
Licensed Torque owners gain access to all documentation including 1000+ pages of source code level documentation (not previewed here). Click here to purchase now!.
If you are a Licensed Torque owner please sign-in to view the unrestricted documentation.
Would that information be of any use to anyone who doesn't own a license, or is considering buying one? I don't think they'd be able to use it elsewhere.
I want to make certain the scripting is something I can easily implement before I decide to buy the Torque Engine and RTS starter kit.
If anyone has a link to some place that shows me an entire program, scripts and all, just to let me see how its all laid out, please post it here. And honestly, that sort of thing should be easily found on the website. I believe the engine comes with some example programs. Why not list the code for one of them for people to look over, and see just how much easier it is than using C++? And if you have a section in your documentation called Scripting vs. C++, explaining why your engine is better than just using C++, then why not show it to potential customers? Honestly now people. Think about it.
About the author
Recent Threads
#22
Even if you dig into the C++ source code, there is no way to completely, 100% protect your code. No game engine is truly immune to inventive hackers with time on their hands. The encryption/hacking arms race will always exist and there is nothing that any of us can do to stop it.
The alternatives, as I see them, are to 1) never make a game and therefore people can't hack it for their evil purposes, 2) make a game so sucky that no one ever plays it, much less takes the time to hack it, or 3) make the game of your dreams. Period.
09/07/2006 (6:39 pm)
Script files can be distributed in their compiled format, giving you some protection. And that is completely without the need for C++ code changes. However, that still doesn't prevent a determined individual from finding another way to insert their scripts into your game. Actually, I can think of two methods right off the top of my head. Even if you dig into the C++ source code, there is no way to completely, 100% protect your code. No game engine is truly immune to inventive hackers with time on their hands. The encryption/hacking arms race will always exist and there is nothing that any of us can do to stop it.
The alternatives, as I see them, are to 1) never make a game and therefore people can't hack it for their evil purposes, 2) make a game so sucky that no one ever plays it, much less takes the time to hack it, or 3) make the game of your dreams. Period.
#23
09/08/2006 (1:07 am)
Quote:Overly ambitious for the engine. As Jeff says, right size your life. An overly ambitious fps game would be much less difficult in lets say Unreal, than Torque.
By definition are not overly ambitious products hard to finish regardless of underlying technology?
#24
- Launch starter.fps demo.
- Go into Mission Editor with F11.
- Drop in as many copies of the buildings and/or Orc model as you like.
- Type... metrics( fps ); ... in the console.
That should give you a general feel for the number of polygons you can push thru your PC with your particular video card.
09/08/2006 (8:35 am)
@Wolf - As far as a "polygon test"...- Launch starter.fps demo.
- Go into Mission Editor with F11.
- Drop in as many copies of the buildings and/or Orc model as you like.
- Type... metrics( fps ); ... in the console.
That should give you a general feel for the number of polygons you can push thru your PC with your particular video card.
#25
Wow, you're clueless.
Sure someone could post the code somewhere and sure doxygen could build some documentation for it (over 120 mb worth of it) and yes you could be just fine without it but posting all of the really useful documentation would be a mammoth undertaking probably more difficult than cracking photoshop cs39. And I doubt you could use acrobat pro to scrape everything off the site for long before it throws a flag as a Denail of Service Attack.
It may not even be about freaking piracy. Their the business, they define how they serve their product, you're the customer and you define whether you buy or not.
And for the last time, there is tons of information around in the public forums, on the website, and on other websites which are far more helpful than the little article you're complaining about. Yes you could argue then that that single article is arbitrarily locked away, but who cares?
So please open your eyes and look for hyperlinks or try typing into google.
09/08/2006 (9:05 am)
Quote:Hiding the code, yes. Although if anyone was going to pirate it, they'd just need one disgruntled licensed user to post it somewhere.
I suppose some forums have a lot of code in them, so they just decided to block those out entirely, getting harmless discussions along with them.
And perhaps they believe people will be less likely to just steal their engine from some warez site, if they gain access to additional code in the member's forum.
Still, there is no reason to hide things like this:
http://www.garagegames.com/docs/tge/general/ch01s02.html
Wow, you're clueless.
Sure someone could post the code somewhere and sure doxygen could build some documentation for it (over 120 mb worth of it) and yes you could be just fine without it but posting all of the really useful documentation would be a mammoth undertaking probably more difficult than cracking photoshop cs39. And I doubt you could use acrobat pro to scrape everything off the site for long before it throws a flag as a Denail of Service Attack.
It may not even be about freaking piracy. Their the business, they define how they serve their product, you're the customer and you define whether you buy or not.
And for the last time, there is tons of information around in the public forums, on the website, and on other websites which are far more helpful than the little article you're complaining about. Yes you could argue then that that single article is arbitrarily locked away, but who cares?
So please open your eyes and look for hyperlinks or try typing into google.
#26
Honestly Jonathan Sandusky, you are being rather rude.
And searching for information is rather tedious when I keep getting results that tell me I can't access that information.
I am ordering the product today, so it won't be a problem for long, the post office delivering my check to them after a couple of days, and hopefully it not taking them long to process it.
They should redo their website though, and list exactly what their products are capable of doing and the reasons why people should use them, in a clear and concise manner, without someone having to spend a great deal of time searching about.
And I don't think any of them care about my complaining about things, since most companies strive to make improvements, and wish customer feedback. One of their staff went over to my invision forum before I came here, and was rather helpful in pointing things out, and we had a civilized and rather informative conversation. Its what mature adults do.
09/08/2006 (9:35 am)
If you don't care, then ignore this thread.Honestly Jonathan Sandusky, you are being rather rude.
And searching for information is rather tedious when I keep getting results that tell me I can't access that information.
I am ordering the product today, so it won't be a problem for long, the post office delivering my check to them after a couple of days, and hopefully it not taking them long to process it.
They should redo their website though, and list exactly what their products are capable of doing and the reasons why people should use them, in a clear and concise manner, without someone having to spend a great deal of time searching about.
And I don't think any of them care about my complaining about things, since most companies strive to make improvements, and wish customer feedback. One of their staff went over to my invision forum before I came here, and was rather helpful in pointing things out, and we had a civilized and rather informative conversation. Its what mature adults do.
Torque Owner Wolf Dreamer
http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=50367
I was led to believe you can make really good encryption with just what was provided.
I don't have to use a lot of C code to make my game safe do I?