Some new RW music
by Joel Steudler · in General Discussion · 05/05/2002 (1:04 am) · 18 replies
I just finished up working on a new Orc themed track for in-game use. Its a bit experimental for me in a bunch of ways.
In accordance with the whole 'dynamic interactive music' idea that seems to have captivated people recently, I tried making this track with a couple of obvious 'break-away' points in it (at 1:45, 3:20, and of course the overall end of the track) that would be appropriate to jump to music of a different mood from.
I'm kind of torn on what the end result of this chopping up of the track accomplished. I'm leaning towards 'it makes it seem like three seperate pieces in one mp3'... though all three segments are related thematically enough to make them cohesive. I could probably develop each segment into a 3-4 min (or longer) piece on their own though.
How long exactly do you all think the segments in the 'dynamic music' scenario should be to make changing moods to fit the on-screen action effective?
On the whole I think I still like the idea of making longer compositions with more flow to them than piecemeal bits that get strung together and can be jumped into and out of.
Anyway, please drop some feedback here if you listen to the music.
In accordance with the whole 'dynamic interactive music' idea that seems to have captivated people recently, I tried making this track with a couple of obvious 'break-away' points in it (at 1:45, 3:20, and of course the overall end of the track) that would be appropriate to jump to music of a different mood from.
I'm kind of torn on what the end result of this chopping up of the track accomplished. I'm leaning towards 'it makes it seem like three seperate pieces in one mp3'... though all three segments are related thematically enough to make them cohesive. I could probably develop each segment into a 3-4 min (or longer) piece on their own though.
How long exactly do you all think the segments in the 'dynamic music' scenario should be to make changing moods to fit the on-screen action effective?
On the whole I think I still like the idea of making longer compositions with more flow to them than piecemeal bits that get strung together and can be jumped into and out of.
Anyway, please drop some feedback here if you listen to the music.
About the author
#2
I listened to the track with great interest. There are a number of things I like but the best is the Orc song-- did you do that with Quantum Leaps' voices? That was a lot of work! Very cool.
You're right that you have three separate tracks put into one. My understanding of the idea of a dynamic music track was that each track would jump seamlessly from one to the next, that the music wouldn't stop completely, but rather be designed and recorded in such a way that it sounded like one continuous flow of sound.
I still like the idea better of having two or three tracks that can be layered, but I guess the jury is still out on whether that is a realistic demand on the CPU.
Still haven't heard Halo, yet. It hasn't been put on display at the local Best Buy, heh.
Nick
05/05/2002 (4:54 am)
Hey Joel,I listened to the track with great interest. There are a number of things I like but the best is the Orc song-- did you do that with Quantum Leaps' voices? That was a lot of work! Very cool.
You're right that you have three separate tracks put into one. My understanding of the idea of a dynamic music track was that each track would jump seamlessly from one to the next, that the music wouldn't stop completely, but rather be designed and recorded in such a way that it sounded like one continuous flow of sound.
I still like the idea better of having two or three tracks that can be layered, but I guess the jury is still out on whether that is a realistic demand on the CPU.
Still haven't heard Halo, yet. It hasn't been put on display at the local Best Buy, heh.
Nick
#3
I really dont think that dynamic music thing works too well. If your going to do it, you need to chop it up into pretty small segments, so that you can crossover pretty quickly when something happens.
Its all very vague. I'd rather have a single coherent track and just live with that.
Good work though, but maybe those tracks dont quite segue into each other.
Phil.
05/05/2002 (5:12 am)
Been listening to the music for a while, sounds fine. Perhaps a little lacking in low end, but thats on my headphones.I really dont think that dynamic music thing works too well. If your going to do it, you need to chop it up into pretty small segments, so that you can crossover pretty quickly when something happens.
Its all very vague. I'd rather have a single coherent track and just live with that.
Good work though, but maybe those tracks dont quite segue into each other.
Phil.
#4
Nick- the voices are actually me chanting in a raspy 'orc' voice. I layered roughly 7-8 takes of me using different inflections/ rasps to simulate multiple orcs, and layered that over a bed of extra-low Symphony of Voices choir patches. The effect would likely be even cooler if I get a few other people to do the orc chant as well and layer them in there as well. If I had that Voices of the Apocalypse library, I'd definitely use it to add even more depth to the sound.
re: 'dynamic music'- I think I may just seperate this set out into three longer tracks , or do a suitable bridge between part 1 & 2 , and make the third part its own track (and lengthen it).
The layering idea Nick had would work if we were using a Direct Music / MIDI equivalent, where events could be more easily mixed into one another. With pre-recorded audio files, though, it just wouldn't work very well. it would be too hard to time things properly so that they always remained in sync and sounded right together.
The other problem with seamlessly mixing audio files (as opposed to MIDI) is that the end of a phrase in an audio file (especially an orchestral composition like mine) is that the final beat will have a reverb tail associated with it, and that won't carry over into the new track. It would just sound jumpy. Although if you could cross fade between the two (and not just start the new one and stop the old) that would mitigate the problem somewhat. Still, maintaining the proper beat would be challenging.
05/05/2002 (12:40 pm)
Edward- glad you liked it :) Nick- the voices are actually me chanting in a raspy 'orc' voice. I layered roughly 7-8 takes of me using different inflections/ rasps to simulate multiple orcs, and layered that over a bed of extra-low Symphony of Voices choir patches. The effect would likely be even cooler if I get a few other people to do the orc chant as well and layer them in there as well. If I had that Voices of the Apocalypse library, I'd definitely use it to add even more depth to the sound.
re: 'dynamic music'- I think I may just seperate this set out into three longer tracks , or do a suitable bridge between part 1 & 2 , and make the third part its own track (and lengthen it).
The layering idea Nick had would work if we were using a Direct Music / MIDI equivalent, where events could be more easily mixed into one another. With pre-recorded audio files, though, it just wouldn't work very well. it would be too hard to time things properly so that they always remained in sync and sounded right together.
The other problem with seamlessly mixing audio files (as opposed to MIDI) is that the end of a phrase in an audio file (especially an orchestral composition like mine) is that the final beat will have a reverb tail associated with it, and that won't carry over into the new track. It would just sound jumpy. Although if you could cross fade between the two (and not just start the new one and stop the old) that would mitigate the problem somewhat. Still, maintaining the proper beat would be challenging.
#5
I'm curious to hear how the music of Halo was made. If it is MIDI, then, of course, looping and jumping around is a piece of cake-- it just sounds cheap. Anybody know? Does Halo play audio tracks, or are there loaded instruments played by a MIDI file or two?
@Phil
A single track for RW sounds fine to me it obviously will work just fine, but someone started the conversation about having music respond to events in the program dynamically and we're trying to figure it out. If a developer asks me for such a track, I already have a better idea than a couple of weeks ago how it might be done. Now, if I could just get some better equipment around here...
Speaking of better stuff, I just received my own copy of GigaStudio. yahoo! Tomorrow I receive my orchestra, and hopefully by the end of the week, my choir. More tracks on the way for you to hear and pass judgement on, heh.
Nick
05/05/2002 (5:21 pm)
Regarding looping, you've hit the nail on the head with the reverb. My Underscore2 begins and ends with a bassoon, pizz ostinato, but they won't fit together unless the beginning of the track sounds like it was preceded by the end of the track. So, I wrote the last bar of the track into the first bar and then snipped the audio where I wanted the beginning to be-- now all the reverberation of the last bar is also present in the first. The only trick, really, is to do a quick fade in the first part of the track so that it begins smoothly. I'm curious to hear how the music of Halo was made. If it is MIDI, then, of course, looping and jumping around is a piece of cake-- it just sounds cheap. Anybody know? Does Halo play audio tracks, or are there loaded instruments played by a MIDI file or two?
@Phil
A single track for RW sounds fine to me it obviously will work just fine, but someone started the conversation about having music respond to events in the program dynamically and we're trying to figure it out. If a developer asks me for such a track, I already have a better idea than a couple of weeks ago how it might be done. Now, if I could just get some better equipment around here...
Speaking of better stuff, I just received my own copy of GigaStudio. yahoo! Tomorrow I receive my orchestra, and hopefully by the end of the week, my choir. More tracks on the way for you to hear and pass judgement on, heh.
Nick
#6
That was me, I spun off on a tangent after you posted your first musical piece for RW about how it might rewarding to have music woven dynamically into the mood of the game. Rather then a background song just playing in the background and not really involved in the game, a theme that helps drive the spirit and set ambience for the current game being played.
@Joel
I like it, the Orc Chanting is very "klingon" sounding and I mean that in a good way. 1 piece though, that just plays unchanged as a background theme isn't very flexible. Multiplayer games have a pace thats not quite the same way twice, the calm moments versus the intense moments never being "scripted" to occur at the same time, every time (like a Soloplayer game for example). Its usually random and all depends on the mood currently being played. Its like watching JAWS and having the "Shark theme" start playing when the current scene isn't near any water for the shark to pop out of. Things get "unsynced" and then the music tends to be more of an afterthought running in the background rather then upfront and apart of the game experience. When that happens its unfortunate because there is a lot of good music out there written for games that never get the spotlight they should.
I kind of veiw tracts used in MP games (like Starseige:TRIBES) nice, but more of a novelty that gets switched off after awhile. So, I thought it would be cool if the music was more then just that, it was something thought of as just as important as things like particle effects. Things, that if removed, would leave a noticable hole in the experience of playing Realm Wars. Tricky thing to do, but IMO, worthwhile if it could be pulled off.
05/05/2002 (6:36 pm)
@NickThat was me, I spun off on a tangent after you posted your first musical piece for RW about how it might rewarding to have music woven dynamically into the mood of the game. Rather then a background song just playing in the background and not really involved in the game, a theme that helps drive the spirit and set ambience for the current game being played.
@Joel
I like it, the Orc Chanting is very "klingon" sounding and I mean that in a good way. 1 piece though, that just plays unchanged as a background theme isn't very flexible. Multiplayer games have a pace thats not quite the same way twice, the calm moments versus the intense moments never being "scripted" to occur at the same time, every time (like a Soloplayer game for example). Its usually random and all depends on the mood currently being played. Its like watching JAWS and having the "Shark theme" start playing when the current scene isn't near any water for the shark to pop out of. Things get "unsynced" and then the music tends to be more of an afterthought running in the background rather then upfront and apart of the game experience. When that happens its unfortunate because there is a lot of good music out there written for games that never get the spotlight they should.
I kind of veiw tracts used in MP games (like Starseige:TRIBES) nice, but more of a novelty that gets switched off after awhile. So, I thought it would be cool if the music was more then just that, it was something thought of as just as important as things like particle effects. Things, that if removed, would leave a noticable hole in the experience of playing Realm Wars. Tricky thing to do, but IMO, worthwhile if it could be pulled off.
#7
tense 1
tense 2
tense transition 1
battle 1
battle 2
battle after 5min
etc...
The music wouldn't be playing throughout the whole game either. It basically kick in with action and if youw ere running around for a long time it woudl fade out after a while. So it's not necessary to have the music playing at all times.
Like the saying.. however it goes... sometimes it's what you DON'T say that is more important.
It may seem like a daunting task to create these loops that will work solely as audio. But in my experience (and that's not saying it's necessarily incredibly extensive heh) it hasn't been too difficult to get the sound you want. The reverb trails can be a pain in the ass but usually in a fast paced "war" song you don't need a lot of reverb on your instruments anyways since there's a lot of movement.
And since it is going to be a dynamic score, you could have several different loops that are just percussion ensembles and you throw in your musical elements every once in a while.
I kind of see it as a way to give me more freedom to experiment with certain ideas.
I think that the only problem is how time consuming it can be to do interactive audio. Any composer that I know of will charge a developer more if they request to have interactive music because it takes so much time to do and plan out for it to work the way it's supposed to.
@Joel
I like the mood you obtained with these tracks for some Orc themes. I agree with you, they're all similar enough that you could draw this out a lot and do a lot of development to make them several songs.
I think that you really caught that orc sound well. Plus the chanting kicks ass. ;) Loved that.
What library are you using for the percussion in these three ideas? And this brass is Quantum Leap Brass right?
05/06/2002 (9:41 pm)
The music in Halo was all audio. The Audio Designer/Composer just made a bunch of audio tracks and classified them in a playlist astense 1
tense 2
tense transition 1
battle 1
battle 2
battle after 5min
etc...
The music wouldn't be playing throughout the whole game either. It basically kick in with action and if youw ere running around for a long time it woudl fade out after a while. So it's not necessary to have the music playing at all times.
Like the saying.. however it goes... sometimes it's what you DON'T say that is more important.
It may seem like a daunting task to create these loops that will work solely as audio. But in my experience (and that's not saying it's necessarily incredibly extensive heh) it hasn't been too difficult to get the sound you want. The reverb trails can be a pain in the ass but usually in a fast paced "war" song you don't need a lot of reverb on your instruments anyways since there's a lot of movement.
And since it is going to be a dynamic score, you could have several different loops that are just percussion ensembles and you throw in your musical elements every once in a while.
I kind of see it as a way to give me more freedom to experiment with certain ideas.
I think that the only problem is how time consuming it can be to do interactive audio. Any composer that I know of will charge a developer more if they request to have interactive music because it takes so much time to do and plan out for it to work the way it's supposed to.
@Joel
I like the mood you obtained with these tracks for some Orc themes. I agree with you, they're all similar enough that you could draw this out a lot and do a lot of development to make them several songs.
I think that you really caught that orc sound well. Plus the chanting kicks ass. ;) Loved that.
What library are you using for the percussion in these three ideas? And this brass is Quantum Leap Brass right?
#8
Here's Marty O'Donell's email address.
He was the audio director for Bungie's Halo and he would have a lot of excellent things to say (if he has the time to) about interactive audio and all the problems he came across and more importantly, his SOLUTIONS.
Some of his other works are:
Riven
Myth
Myth II
Oni
Septerra Core
So he's been around for a while and really knows his stuff.
marty@totalaudio.com
He coudl offer some great insites into this whole idea of interactive audio so if you're serious in pursuing it then it'd be worthwhile dropping him a line.
Hope it helps :)
05/06/2002 (9:48 pm)
Oh BTW, Here's Marty O'Donell's email address.
He was the audio director for Bungie's Halo and he would have a lot of excellent things to say (if he has the time to) about interactive audio and all the problems he came across and more importantly, his SOLUTIONS.
Some of his other works are:
Riven
Myth
Myth II
Oni
Septerra Core
So he's been around for a while and really knows his stuff.
marty@totalaudio.com
He coudl offer some great insites into this whole idea of interactive audio so if you're serious in pursuing it then it'd be worthwhile dropping him a line.
Hope it helps :)
#9
The percussion is a free download from Bolder Sounds. Head over to their site , and click the 'free stuff' link on the right hand column. There are a few cool patches there, including the percussion (which is labelled 'Boulder Washer and Dryer Percussion, and is down towards the bottom of the page). Its amazing what cool stuff you can find around the web for free...
Speaking of free stuff, the trumpets I used are also free, and came from Project SAM. Not only do you get a nice trumpet ensemble, but theres also a very cool trumpet effects patch as well. The main ensemble also has several articulations presented. Its well worth the zero dollars you'll be paying (plus download time :) ).
The rest of the brass is a mix of Quantum Leap Brass and Dan Dean Solo Brass in various permutations. I usually make a custom patch of the QLB version and DDSB versions of the same instrument layered on top of each other in various ways, using the mod wheel to control the exact fade between layers so I have a range of sounds in the same patch.
Oh, I also used some free bongo samples presented by one of the users on this cool Gigastudio forum. Go to the Sample Libraries Discussion forum and doa search for Ultimate Bongos or just bongos and you'll likely find it.
________
Re: dynamic music
It may be beyond the scope of a community-built project like RW to do a full dynamic score. Making a whole score like that for all the various races /character styles would be massively time consuming. I've only seen a couple composers so far who are interested in contributing. A full dynamic score done properly would require anyone that wanted to contribute to have to do a pretty substantial amount of work just so they would be able to offer up something useful.
If we stick to a less dynamic format more people would be able to contribute since less work will be required of them to present something usable.
Either way, the composers who intend to do work on RW music ought to come to some kind of conclusion about what's a realistic amount of work to expect from people and in what form it should be delivered (ie. little chunks of dynamic music, great sprawling epics, or whatever)
05/07/2002 (12:31 pm)
Raison, glad you liked the music...The percussion is a free download from Bolder Sounds. Head over to their site , and click the 'free stuff' link on the right hand column. There are a few cool patches there, including the percussion (which is labelled 'Boulder Washer and Dryer Percussion, and is down towards the bottom of the page). Its amazing what cool stuff you can find around the web for free...
Speaking of free stuff, the trumpets I used are also free, and came from Project SAM. Not only do you get a nice trumpet ensemble, but theres also a very cool trumpet effects patch as well. The main ensemble also has several articulations presented. Its well worth the zero dollars you'll be paying (plus download time :) ).
The rest of the brass is a mix of Quantum Leap Brass and Dan Dean Solo Brass in various permutations. I usually make a custom patch of the QLB version and DDSB versions of the same instrument layered on top of each other in various ways, using the mod wheel to control the exact fade between layers so I have a range of sounds in the same patch.
Oh, I also used some free bongo samples presented by one of the users on this cool Gigastudio forum. Go to the Sample Libraries Discussion forum and doa search for Ultimate Bongos or just bongos and you'll likely find it.
________
Re: dynamic music
It may be beyond the scope of a community-built project like RW to do a full dynamic score. Making a whole score like that for all the various races /character styles would be massively time consuming. I've only seen a couple composers so far who are interested in contributing. A full dynamic score done properly would require anyone that wanted to contribute to have to do a pretty substantial amount of work just so they would be able to offer up something useful.
If we stick to a less dynamic format more people would be able to contribute since less work will be required of them to present something usable.
Either way, the composers who intend to do work on RW music ought to come to some kind of conclusion about what's a realistic amount of work to expect from people and in what form it should be delivered (ie. little chunks of dynamic music, great sprawling epics, or whatever)
#10
05/07/2002 (5:59 pm)
Doing something "HALO"-ish might then be a good compromise by having a score of shorter bits set to play when triggered by certain events and a not fully dynamic score. A stolen flag, the game timer runningn out of time ect, could all be triggers for the score to play a key times. I kind of like the theory of not having the music constantly playing in the background but more used to further emphasize key moments in the course of gameplay. It will be intresting to play with the music and gameplay as Realm Wars moves into Milestone 1, 2 and beyond.
#11
05/07/2002 (6:55 pm)
JOEL! THAT IS AMAZING! you captured the perfect mood of what i would expect orcs to sound like. the chanting is perfect, and the ending is extremely cool with the metal clanks for sounds -- amazing work as always.
#12
ie...
Everytime someone jumps in the jeep, you don't want the music theme to change.
The player shouldn't know how to change the music whenever they want, because then it's no longer an immersive and subconscious effect.
@Joel
I know what you mean about the work hours people will be willing to contribute to a community project. I would like the music in Realm Wars to be more than just a little jukebox that plays in the background. Because it could be so much more.
I'm not sure what the best method would be to goign about changing this.
Because having a bunch of people contribute to the whole thing will be like a patchwork of different styles, sound quality, etc... And it won't be cohesive.
Maybe in the end it will simply require a lot of time and effort from a composer and they'll have to know what they're getting into before they start.
The only problem I really see is people who want to get into the industry and want to get something in return (money I expect hehe) for the amount of time and effort it will take to do something on the scope that this project needs.
I don't remember off the top of my head... Is RW going to be published and make money? Or will it be offered for free?
05/07/2002 (10:50 pm)
The main thing to keep in mind when doing interactive audio is that you don't want people to be too conscious of what causes the changes in the music. ie...
Everytime someone jumps in the jeep, you don't want the music theme to change.
The player shouldn't know how to change the music whenever they want, because then it's no longer an immersive and subconscious effect.
@Joel
I know what you mean about the work hours people will be willing to contribute to a community project. I would like the music in Realm Wars to be more than just a little jukebox that plays in the background. Because it could be so much more.
I'm not sure what the best method would be to goign about changing this.
Because having a bunch of people contribute to the whole thing will be like a patchwork of different styles, sound quality, etc... And it won't be cohesive.
Maybe in the end it will simply require a lot of time and effort from a composer and they'll have to know what they're getting into before they start.
The only problem I really see is people who want to get into the industry and want to get something in return (money I expect hehe) for the amount of time and effort it will take to do something on the scope that this project needs.
I don't remember off the top of my head... Is RW going to be published and make money? Or will it be offered for free?
#13
Thanks for the compliments! Im glad the chanting seems to have hit the mark for those people that have commented on it :)
Raison-
I believe RW will be freely distributed, downloadable only (at least thats the impression Ive got so far).
That of course will factor into how the music for the game shapes up.
I don't think that any one composer will be able to, for free, craft a comprehensive interative score for RW that covers all the character types and/or environments. I also don't think its necessarily a good idea for anyone to try, and here's why:
Despite the lack of consistency it will cause, I think the music in RW should be open to as many composers as there are that want to express their voice here.
Doing things in a jukebox format would also allow outside mod-makers like the guys that made that cool steam knight model to add in themes relevant to their material as well. If GG was paying a composer to do the music for RW, for example, those guys would have a much tougher road to getting some music in game that matches their theme. GG certainly wouldnt pay a composer to make it. If there was a jukebox format however, they could offer up some themed music on their site for people to download and play along with.
As I envision it, GG would host some space where composers could upload tracks of relevant RW music (or even just maintain a library of links to such music hosted elsewhere if the bandwidth is a concern) and people could then drop those files into the appropriate folder on their drive and set up a playlist from an in-game interface.
Sure, a plan like that has its drawbacks. If players have control of what they're going to be listening to, they might choose to not listen to my music, for one thing :) Also, theres the possibility that a composer you like might not be able to complete music for every character type. And it wouldn't be as immersive as an interactive score that responds to the player's actions.
But, on the other hand, allowing the players a choice in what they want to hear would likely prompt them to try out more artists' music, thus giving more people more exposure (instead of one person being the only one to receive notice).
I think the interactivity issue would be more relevant if this were a game that was likely to present situations that called for drastically different moods during the gameplay.
RW will have no quiet cutscenes, no dialogue with NPC's, no non-violent exploration.. It will have teams of people or individuals constantly trying to beat the daylighhts out of each other. That really doesn't require a broad palette of emotional coverage from the music :) . If this were a single player RPG or FPS with a strong plot element, I might be more persuaded to try the whole interactive thing.
I don't know about other people, but for a fully orchestrated theme, it takes me about 6-8 hours to wind up with 1-2 min. of acceptable music. If I pushed myself I might be able to work faster, but not by alot. If you extrapolate that out to the length of a full score, say about 40 min. worth, thats somewhere in the neighborhood of 250-300 hours of work. If that 40 min is split up between, say, 5 races with their own distinct sound, thats only 8 mni apiece. Barely enough.
All those numbers make my head swim. The point is that I feel it would be much better to allow many composers to contribute so the players have a fair amount of music to listen to.
Lets say I focus on Orcs (hypothetically, since I want to do music for as many classes as I have time for ;) ).. instead of a mere 8 min of Orc music (I've actually already hit that mark), I would be able to offer up a good deal more, which would enhance the playing experience for orc players that liked my music.
ugh. Im getting all long-winded again. My opinion is no more valid than anyone elses' at this point, but anyhow... maybe some insight into what we should do can be gleaned from what I wrote above. :)
05/08/2002 (3:43 pm)
James- Thanks for the compliments! Im glad the chanting seems to have hit the mark for those people that have commented on it :)
Raison-
I believe RW will be freely distributed, downloadable only (at least thats the impression Ive got so far).
That of course will factor into how the music for the game shapes up.
I don't think that any one composer will be able to, for free, craft a comprehensive interative score for RW that covers all the character types and/or environments. I also don't think its necessarily a good idea for anyone to try, and here's why:
Despite the lack of consistency it will cause, I think the music in RW should be open to as many composers as there are that want to express their voice here.
Doing things in a jukebox format would also allow outside mod-makers like the guys that made that cool steam knight model to add in themes relevant to their material as well. If GG was paying a composer to do the music for RW, for example, those guys would have a much tougher road to getting some music in game that matches their theme. GG certainly wouldnt pay a composer to make it. If there was a jukebox format however, they could offer up some themed music on their site for people to download and play along with.
As I envision it, GG would host some space where composers could upload tracks of relevant RW music (or even just maintain a library of links to such music hosted elsewhere if the bandwidth is a concern) and people could then drop those files into the appropriate folder on their drive and set up a playlist from an in-game interface.
Sure, a plan like that has its drawbacks. If players have control of what they're going to be listening to, they might choose to not listen to my music, for one thing :) Also, theres the possibility that a composer you like might not be able to complete music for every character type. And it wouldn't be as immersive as an interactive score that responds to the player's actions.
But, on the other hand, allowing the players a choice in what they want to hear would likely prompt them to try out more artists' music, thus giving more people more exposure (instead of one person being the only one to receive notice).
I think the interactivity issue would be more relevant if this were a game that was likely to present situations that called for drastically different moods during the gameplay.
RW will have no quiet cutscenes, no dialogue with NPC's, no non-violent exploration.. It will have teams of people or individuals constantly trying to beat the daylighhts out of each other. That really doesn't require a broad palette of emotional coverage from the music :) . If this were a single player RPG or FPS with a strong plot element, I might be more persuaded to try the whole interactive thing.
I don't know about other people, but for a fully orchestrated theme, it takes me about 6-8 hours to wind up with 1-2 min. of acceptable music. If I pushed myself I might be able to work faster, but not by alot. If you extrapolate that out to the length of a full score, say about 40 min. worth, thats somewhere in the neighborhood of 250-300 hours of work. If that 40 min is split up between, say, 5 races with their own distinct sound, thats only 8 mni apiece. Barely enough.
All those numbers make my head swim. The point is that I feel it would be much better to allow many composers to contribute so the players have a fair amount of music to listen to.
Lets say I focus on Orcs (hypothetically, since I want to do music for as many classes as I have time for ;) ).. instead of a mere 8 min of Orc music (I've actually already hit that mark), I would be able to offer up a good deal more, which would enhance the playing experience for orc players that liked my music.
ugh. Im getting all long-winded again. My opinion is no more valid than anyone elses' at this point, but anyhow... maybe some insight into what we should do can be gleaned from what I wrote above. :)
#14
I think that you hit the nail on the head with your post. I think that sometimes we all forget... the entire point of this project is that it's a community project and it will have that patchwork feel no matter what we do with audio since there are so many contributing artists, programmers, etc...
But I believe that it will be the flavor of the game. This patchwork of themes and idea to create a final product.
After reading your post and thinking about it... The jukebox really is the best way to go I think. How else could we get a massive soundtrack?
And there's always the possibility of doing a soundtrack CD/CD-Set of music that people can vote on as their favorite.
But I'm starting to go all dreamy and what not...
I think the jukebox really is the best way to go, if solely for the fact that I think it will capture what Realm Wars is about better than any other approach.
But we of course aren't the ones with the final vision...
What say you guys at GG?
05/08/2002 (6:59 pm)
Hey Joel, I think that you hit the nail on the head with your post. I think that sometimes we all forget... the entire point of this project is that it's a community project and it will have that patchwork feel no matter what we do with audio since there are so many contributing artists, programmers, etc...
But I believe that it will be the flavor of the game. This patchwork of themes and idea to create a final product.
After reading your post and thinking about it... The jukebox really is the best way to go I think. How else could we get a massive soundtrack?
And there's always the possibility of doing a soundtrack CD/CD-Set of music that people can vote on as their favorite.
But I'm starting to go all dreamy and what not...
I think the jukebox really is the best way to go, if solely for the fact that I think it will capture what Realm Wars is about better than any other approach.
But we of course aren't the ones with the final vision...
What say you guys at GG?
#15
BTW, really good work, I love this music ;)
The most important is probably to keep different style for races. I'd like to listen to some agressive and violent sound when I'm an orc and something more quiet, perhaps sounding like the nature itself when I'm an elf...
Keep that good work! Good music have a really important part in the game!
Oh and IMO, interactivity is not really important. You will probably have lot of difficulties to make it comparing with the result.
05/09/2002 (3:06 am)
Yeah, Joel is right.BTW, really good work, I love this music ;)
The most important is probably to keep different style for races. I'd like to listen to some agressive and violent sound when I'm an orc and something more quiet, perhaps sounding like the nature itself when I'm an elf...
Keep that good work! Good music have a really important part in the game!
Oh and IMO, interactivity is not really important. You will probably have lot of difficulties to make it comparing with the result.
#16
And as I said before this music is great...it sounds so...oh I don't know but its very good!
I'm at the moment thinking if I want music because in real life you don't have music around you but it really make it more interesting to play... And also my game will hopefully in the future have the need to listen out...
And wow I had no idea that you did the orc voices...very good... I just hope thats not what you sound like lol...
Well good luck!
cya!
P.S. are you only working on rw?
05/09/2002 (3:31 am)
Good point...Music is a very important part to a game etc...have you ever seen a movie with out the music in it? it just doesn't have the action in it...And as I said before this music is great...it sounds so...oh I don't know but its very good!
I'm at the moment thinking if I want music because in real life you don't have music around you but it really make it more interesting to play... And also my game will hopefully in the future have the need to listen out...
And wow I had no idea that you did the orc voices...very good... I just hope thats not what you sound like lol...
Well good luck!
cya!
P.S. are you only working on rw?
#17
12/28/2002 (4:59 pm)
I'm interested in composing music for this project. Is there still work to be done?
#18
I remember in Street Fighter 2 when you were low on health the music would change to a fast drum beat, and in the SNES version the music would speed up. Later games lost this ability. It actually added quite a bit to the game, artificially increasing the level of excitement.
It might be enough to fade out of one track and into another at certain times. For example when low on health, when your team is ahead by a lot, when your team is behind by a lot, etc. (Whatever ahead and behind mean in that game context) I don't think you have to try to make the music flow into segments from other pieces...seems like a *lot* of work that could potentially dampen the uniqueness of each track.
12/30/2002 (12:31 am)
I'm back from vacation.I remember in Street Fighter 2 when you were low on health the music would change to a fast drum beat, and in the SNES version the music would speed up. Later games lost this ability. It actually added quite a bit to the game, artificially increasing the level of excitement.
It might be enough to fade out of one track and into another at certain times. For example when low on health, when your team is ahead by a lot, when your team is behind by a lot, etc. (Whatever ahead and behind mean in that game context) I don't think you have to try to make the music flow into segments from other pieces...seems like a *lot* of work that could potentially dampen the uniqueness of each track.
Torque Owner Edward Smith
Silencersoft
wish i could do that...