Torque X

#1

Quote:
Is managed code actually viable for game development? Everyone I know says its slow.
Managed code is usually slower than C++ code, yep. But C++ is slower than assembly, and people don't code in assembly very often any more. At some point, it becomes less important to squeeze every last drop of performance out of your game, than it does to just get your game done more quickly. That's why game developers originally switched from coding in low-level languages like Assembly almost exclusively, to higher-level native languages like C++. It's easier to code than Assembly.

The same is true for managed languages like C#. They remove a lot of the nitty-gritty, annoying, really hard to debug issues you can hit with closer to the metal languages like C++. Once you get used to it, managed languages make you a lot faster coder. They're kind of like scripting languages, which lots of game developers use, only Microsoft's .NET managed languages are especially fast.

We originally didn't think managed languages would work at all for game development. We're pretty hardcore C++ coders at GarageGames. But once we started using it, and after a lot of careful analysis and engineering work, we've been able to unlock really great performance in XNA with Torque X. The demos we have running on Torque X, such as our XNA-based Marble Blast Ultra clone, runs about 80% as fast the original C++ game! We see similar results with the 2D demos, even though with Torque X we've thrown shaders on them!

Especially for indie games, which are necessarily smaller-scoped than huge AAA commercial titles, managed game development can make a huge amount of sense. And using Torque X is going to be by far the fastest way to get XNA-based games done.

So, are you changing to managed code entirely? No more C++!?
No way. The Torque Game Engine suite of technology and tools is firmly rooted in C++, and we'll continue pushing forward on them... adding features, tuning, and more. Our efforts in managed code with Torque X are just a nice addition to the work we're already doing.

Should I just wait for Torque X to start my project then, if its so great?
If you want to make games... get started. Its almost never a good idea to wait around for some new piece of technology before you start your game development. Like it or not, making good quality games takes time... if you want to do your actual game production in managed code on Torque X, that' great! But there's no need to wait. You can start prototyping your game now, on Torque as it exists today, and then switch over to Torque X and the XNA platform once its ready.

In fact, there's some really good news here. We are striving to keep Torque X compatibilty with Torque as you know it in C++. So, for example, if you're doing a 2D game and you build a level with Torque Game Builder, you'll be able to essentially "export" it for use with Torque X. In fact, we already have this functionality up and running in proof of concept! We can create a level in TGB, save it out, and load it in Torque X! To be clear, there will be some porting work involved if you switch a project from Torque as it exists today, to Torque X. But we want you to be able to deploy your games on any platform,

In the end, should I use Torque or Torque X?
It really doesn't matter that much which you use-- they're both great technologies and can use nice tools. Torque and Torque X are going to be very similar. Torque X is written atop managed code, so for beginning to intermediate programmers especially, its going to be easier to use than C++-based stuff. Torque X leverages the XNA Framework to allow you to run your games on the Xbox 360 in your own home, so if you want to prove that your game can work on a console, Torque X will be the way to go. On the other hand, the standard Torque engines will provide more performance by some margin than Torque X, and allow you to deploy games on OS X and Linux on the desktop.

In the end, it just might make sense doing your game on both Torque and Torque X, especially as time progresses and we continue to ease the port work you need to do to move back and forth.

So, did GarageGames sell out to Microsoft!?
No. We just think what Microsoft is doing is really, really cool. When Microsoft told us about their plans with the XNA Framework, we were stoked immediately. Imagine it... a major console manufacturer opening up their console for the masses who want to build their own games and play them! That's awesome! We had to get onboard that train... as far as game technology goes, our mission is to provide the technology, tools, and community that enable anyone with the vision and drive to create their own games. Torque X is right in line with that mission, and we are absolutely blown away with the position Microsoft is taking with their XNA initiatives. Kudos to the Microsoft games group, their efforts with Xbox 360, Live Arcade, and XNA are truly impressive.

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#2 I read the keynote press release from M$ which mentions GG. I love C#, I seriously can't wait to see what GG makes out of this.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/aug06/08-13XNAGameStudioPR.mspx

#3 I couldn't help but notice in that article they say TSE MS 4 will ship this week. Good news all around.

#4 It would be nice for *us* to hear this stuff from GG instead of having to search for it on the internet. Reading about TSE MS4 in some other forum or website is kind of stange. I know some information was released for TLK owners (which I am) but I haven't seen anything in the official TSE forums unless I'm missing something.

Edited: I didn't see that the URL the OP listed was from GG. I guess I didn't pay close enough attention, I just assumed it was from another internet website. That's what I get for assuming huh? ;)

#5 I am so, so excited. GarageGames and Microsoft really are amazing.

#6 I agree, I'm always annoyed with it as well when we learn about stuff this way. I'm sure they were planning on announcing it this morning, but with GG being on the west coast they're probably just now waking up.

#7 Yes, they plan on announcing this today. As you can see, the site for Torque X isn't even live yet. This was one of several press releases that got released a bit early.

#8 Does this suprise anyone? I mean come on, it IS Microsoft. They always get everyone in the end! This reminds me of a saying.. "Resistance is futile!" ;)

Just joking, I can't WAIT until this is out. C# is my language of choice!

#9 I wonder if this means we will need console licenses, and if so what the costs are?

#10 @Dreamer - they have the game studio express which would allow you to play it on your own box or pc, but most likely (at least for now) not release the game itself commercially. They have a non-express version IIRC that you pay for that's the full blown deal.

#11 I hope they dont use MDX for that... :/

#12 Eat this :)

Quote:
GarageGames and Microsoft have agreed today to merge forces on the critically acclaimed game engine that powered AAA title Tribes II and is being used by independent game developers all over the world.
The new Torque X-Box Engine (TXE) will run exclusively on Microsofts X-Box, with full support for all features of the most advanced game console currently on the market. Plans to port the engine to the upcoming X-Box 2 are also being made.
In addition, Microsoft has acquired a 65% share in GarageGames and will actively support independent game developers who wish to bring their titles to the X-Box platform.
Support for the old TGE and TSE products will continue until the end of 2005.
As a special gift to all GarageGamer Newsletter subscribers, if you purchase TXE use the code "April1st" when you check out, you can save $5.

It's from Saturday, December 10, 2005

#13 Hey, you know how the saying goes: "If you can't beat 'em, buy 'em!"

#14 Honestly I didn't know they were going to announce Sunday.

#15 Umm that was supposed to be an April fools day prank I thought?

#16 Support for the old TGE and TSE products will continue until the end of 2005.

What does this mean? Does it mean what think it mean.

#17 That uh, is an april fools prank, Michael.

#18 LOL! Wow.. it's obviously an april fools day prank guys! Look at the 'coupon' code. Microsoft doesn't buy 65%, they buy just enough to retain control 51% ;)

Edit: Points out that we're halfway through 2006, so support would have ended 8 months ago =P

#19 Yep but joke would be if turn out to be the other way round.

#20 If MS bought GG, we'd have to pirate TGE/TSE just for the sake of reputation ;)