Guide to the TGB GUI controls/classes?
by Funky Diver · in Torque Game Builder · 08/12/2006 (10:25 am) · 9 replies
Greetings
I'm creating a GUI for my TGB project, and I cannot find any documentation on the gui controls/classes... TDN has nothing about it... Torque documentation covers just basics how to add a simple gui object.
What I need is: when and why should I use GUIControl or GUIScriptNotifyCtrl, or GUIStockControl, or GUIChunkedBitmapCtrl, or GUIFrameSetCtrl, etc...
Looking at the sources of TGB level editor helps, but not that much - it's not clear how to choose the right control in some situation.
Help! :)
Thank you!
I'm creating a GUI for my TGB project, and I cannot find any documentation on the gui controls/classes... TDN has nothing about it... Torque documentation covers just basics how to add a simple gui object.
What I need is: when and why should I use GUIControl or GUIScriptNotifyCtrl, or GUIStockControl, or GUIChunkedBitmapCtrl, or GUIFrameSetCtrl, etc...
Looking at the sources of TGB level editor helps, but not that much - it's not clear how to choose the right control in some situation.
Help! :)
Thank you!
#2
It's a shame. GG has created an awesome GUI scheme; which cannot be utilized to its fullest extents because of the almost total lack of official documentation. How does a person even know that they want to use a particular control/profile if they don't know what it is?
Alexander... I would suggest that you pick a specific GUI control that you think might be useful in your current project, search the forums with due diligence; and then start a new thread (in T2d scripting or Torque Core Questions) on the subject if you cannot find the information you seek. It's a long process (as I discovered when I tried to find out how to script a GuiRadioCtrl) and you may end up having to figure it out yourself (as I did). It's a messy process; but was perfectly acceptable when TGB was in alpha and beta. I'm not quite sure that it should be considered acceptable now. [Sorry, I slipped back into ranting. My bad!]
08/18/2006 (8:25 am)
Those mini tutorials on TDN are like mana from heaven for newbies, but cannot be considered a replacement for official documentation from GarageGames. Alexander... I would suggest that you pick a specific GUI control that you think might be useful in your current project, search the forums with due diligence; and then start a new thread (in T2d scripting or Torque Core Questions) on the subject if you cannot find the information you seek. It's a long process (as I discovered when I tried to find out how to script a GuiRadioCtrl) and you may end up having to figure it out yourself (as I did). It's a messy process; but was perfectly acceptable when TGB was in alpha and beta. I'm not quite sure that it should be considered acceptable now. [Sorry, I slipped back into ranting. My bad!]
#3
I'm going a slow route now, as you suggested... :) (takes about the same time as I would wrote my own GUI :/)
08/18/2006 (8:39 am)
I double that, DonI'm going a slow route now, as you suggested... :) (takes about the same time as I would wrote my own GUI :/)
#4
It's a real useful method. You'll see when you use it.
08/19/2006 (7:23 am)
Also, if you want to see all the functions for a GuiCtrl, name it and type: [Gui's Name].dump();
It's a real useful method. You'll see when you use it.
#5
there is a torque command that will dump objects and thier methods. it was in another post about it.
*Edit didn't see the above post. :p
08/19/2006 (11:15 am)
Search the forums, GG said they would be releasing a PDF with the gui stuff in also. I think its in the latest release but I have not downloaded it yet.there is a torque command that will dump objects and thier methods. it was in another post about it.
*Edit didn't see the above post. :p
#6
Of course as was stated earlier, you could use .dump().... or if you have access to the source you could simply read the source code to see what a GUI control does. This of course isn't necessary, and I can tell you from personal experiance that you can learn what the gui controls do without that.
The GUI system is a very complex system to document, especially if you're looking for 100% coverage of all information for it.
08/20/2006 (12:19 am)
Most of the common GUI controls have pretty descriptive names which reflects their purpose. If it isn't obvious right away what the purpose of a control is.... well you'll probably not be needing that one soon.Of course as was stated earlier, you could use .dump().... or if you have access to the source you could simply read the source code to see what a GUI control does. This of course isn't necessary, and I can tell you from personal experiance that you can learn what the gui controls do without that.
The GUI system is a very complex system to document, especially if you're looking for 100% coverage of all information for it.
#7
08/21/2006 (2:29 pm)
Honestly as an owner of Pro after official launch the lack of documentation is completely unacceptable, and GG needs a boot to the head for the lack of it. I would expect a document describing each control, as well as it's functions, and maybe even hopefully examples of their use (without other garbage). Think MS SDK documentation. 
#8
I can understand the complaints about some aspects of the documentation which are part of a long-time discussion in resource management for a small company, but the launch of Pro has excellent documentation for new developers. It is not perfect (especially in terms of the C++ code). But it has gotten better and continues to.
There is a documentation team, but it is a HUGE undertaking and one which frustrates users because they do not want to undertake it themselves. They want it undertaken by others for the same reason they purchased a game engine: to let them make their game without the particulars of creating their own documentation or creating an engine.
It is something that is on GG's list of priorities, but it takes time and money. Until both are invested, .dump() and get into the GUI editor and play. It is amazing how much you can learn through creating a couple of GUI's. And if you've used other visual GUI editing programs, the learning curve is even lower.
08/21/2006 (3:15 pm)
There are thousands of people employed in Microsoft's documentation department worldwide. Few things compare to MSDN.I can understand the complaints about some aspects of the documentation which are part of a long-time discussion in resource management for a small company, but the launch of Pro has excellent documentation for new developers. It is not perfect (especially in terms of the C++ code). But it has gotten better and continues to.
There is a documentation team, but it is a HUGE undertaking and one which frustrates users because they do not want to undertake it themselves. They want it undertaken by others for the same reason they purchased a game engine: to let them make their game without the particulars of creating their own documentation or creating an engine.
It is something that is on GG's list of priorities, but it takes time and money. Until both are invested, .dump() and get into the GUI editor and play. It is amazing how much you can learn through creating a couple of GUI's. And if you've used other visual GUI editing programs, the learning curve is even lower.
#9
Though I understand some concerns and agree with some, I do disagree with some statements...
"the lack of documentation is completely unacceptable, and GG needs a boot to the head for the lack of it."
Here is what the documentation currently encompasses -
- 5 complete game/app multi-part tutorials, including one that instructs you in creating a screensaver type app and another that covers a multiplayer game ()
- 16 Feature tutorials that cover all of the major features of the Level Builder (from static sprites, to config datablocks, to tile maps and collision)
- A 343 page reference doc that covers nearly every object and method attached to it in the engine, including the base GuiControl and GuiCanvas in the latest 1.1.1 release (though not each individual GuiControl type yet)
- Common directory, debug banner, image map, input (actionmap), and particle engine reference docs
- A TorqueScript overview and TorqueScript reference doc
All together over 700 pages of docs that have taken quite a bit of work (more than you could guess between many different people).
Now the biggest gap in docs we have is Gui docs... this has been admitted and is truthful. That is why we've spent some extra time building up the Mini Tutorials section of TDN with GUI examples etc (big thanks to Thomas Buscaglia).
"but cannot be considered a replacement for official documentation from GarageGames."
In that I'd disagree, especially considering most of them were done by Thomas B. while he was interning here at GG under the direction of us (in which he did a -great- job).
Now this doesn't mean we don't plan to add them all to the reference, but that takes a whole lot more time than I think most of you are thinking it would. For 1.1.0 the docs were one of the top priorities. I personally spent day and night trying to make sure we had the best docs possible and that we doc'd all that was feasible (read 10-16 hour days every day and sometimes on weekends). We also took community submissions and had interns constantly scouring and upating them.
I understand the frustration of this gap in documentation, but to say that the entire documentation as a whole is completely lacking is an exageration. I've used products that have much (very much) larger holes in the documentation and came with a much lower quality of docs. As David stated comparing this to MSDN is definately not a fair comparisson... in the extreme.
That said, we are very dedicated to the continual update of docs and I think you understate the usefulness of .dump(). It is not a workaround for documenation it is internal engine documentation made excessible from script. I find it much faster to use .dump() than just about any reference documentation and personally just use .dump() instead of the reference doc... though the reference doc is ever growing nonetheless.
08/21/2006 (4:19 pm)
Very well said David...Though I understand some concerns and agree with some, I do disagree with some statements...
"the lack of documentation is completely unacceptable, and GG needs a boot to the head for the lack of it."
Here is what the documentation currently encompasses -
- 5 complete game/app multi-part tutorials, including one that instructs you in creating a screensaver type app and another that covers a multiplayer game ()
- 16 Feature tutorials that cover all of the major features of the Level Builder (from static sprites, to config datablocks, to tile maps and collision)
- A 343 page reference doc that covers nearly every object and method attached to it in the engine, including the base GuiControl and GuiCanvas in the latest 1.1.1 release (though not each individual GuiControl type yet)
- Common directory, debug banner, image map, input (actionmap), and particle engine reference docs
- A TorqueScript overview and TorqueScript reference doc
All together over 700 pages of docs that have taken quite a bit of work (more than you could guess between many different people).
Now the biggest gap in docs we have is Gui docs... this has been admitted and is truthful. That is why we've spent some extra time building up the Mini Tutorials section of TDN with GUI examples etc (big thanks to Thomas Buscaglia).
"but cannot be considered a replacement for official documentation from GarageGames."
In that I'd disagree, especially considering most of them were done by Thomas B. while he was interning here at GG under the direction of us (in which he did a -great- job).
Now this doesn't mean we don't plan to add them all to the reference, but that takes a whole lot more time than I think most of you are thinking it would. For 1.1.0 the docs were one of the top priorities. I personally spent day and night trying to make sure we had the best docs possible and that we doc'd all that was feasible (read 10-16 hour days every day and sometimes on weekends). We also took community submissions and had interns constantly scouring and upating them.
I understand the frustration of this gap in documentation, but to say that the entire documentation as a whole is completely lacking is an exageration. I've used products that have much (very much) larger holes in the documentation and came with a much lower quality of docs. As David stated comparing this to MSDN is definately not a fair comparisson... in the extreme.
That said, we are very dedicated to the continual update of docs and I think you understate the usefulness of .dump(). It is not a workaround for documenation it is internal engine documentation made excessible from script. I find it much faster to use .dump() than just about any reference documentation and personally just use .dump() instead of the reference doc... though the reference doc is ever growing nonetheless.
Torque Owner Thomas Buscaglia