Programmers for free ;o)
by Andreas · in General Discussion · 04/15/2001 (9:44 am) · 9 replies
I am in a team of developers that are creating an MMORPG. We need 2 more programmers for the client. Do check out the site at www.x-caliber.org, the serverside-team has some really cool stuff. So if you are interested, check out the "Dragon Net" project here on Garage Games. This is an Internet-project, the developers are spread out all over the world. Don't count to be rich on it, though. We do this because we enjoy doing it. We ARE dedicated.
Ok, enough of the boring stuff =)
When this site started I was very amused (and a bit sad) when I noticed how many projects started. Everyone wants to do that cool, groundbreaking MMORPG. To bad 95% of the projects will fail or turn into shit. There are so many great ideas here.
Do you think that garagegames.com and the V12-engine might change the future of games? The MOD-communities have changed online-gaming quite a bit.
What could be done to make the giants (like EA) support smaller developers that has new ideas? Perhaps it's just like Hollywood, the unique stuff most often come from Europe ;)
Just watch Ultima Online 2. They killed that project cause they are scared. They don't want to compete with UO, even though UO is REALLY old. It's obvious that UO2 would have been a success. UO will lose users when the next generation of MMORPG:s comes.
Ok, enough of the boring stuff =)
When this site started I was very amused (and a bit sad) when I noticed how many projects started. Everyone wants to do that cool, groundbreaking MMORPG. To bad 95% of the projects will fail or turn into shit. There are so many great ideas here.
Do you think that garagegames.com and the V12-engine might change the future of games? The MOD-communities have changed online-gaming quite a bit.
What could be done to make the giants (like EA) support smaller developers that has new ideas? Perhaps it's just like Hollywood, the unique stuff most often come from Europe ;)
Just watch Ultima Online 2. They killed that project cause they are scared. They don't want to compete with UO, even though UO is REALLY old. It's obvious that UO2 would have been a success. UO will lose users when the next generation of MMORPG:s comes.
About the author
#2
Apparently, other people agree, because this UO castle is being auctioned on eBay for $1350 (and climbing?):
cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228593270
04/15/2001 (4:34 pm)
What I found to be really cool about UO (disclaimer: never played it, just read articles about it) is that you can have your own buildings, homes, and even businesses. I liked the idea of that...that you had somewhere that was yours, even though it's virtual. That you actually lived in this made-up-world. Apparently, other people agree, because this UO castle is being auctioned on eBay for $1350 (and climbing?):
cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228593270
#3
Hmm, DragonNet is going to support these features. I'm glad I'm not one of the programmes, because that is going to be a tricky one ;) .
MMORPG:s are the only genre that REALLY interests me. What other kind of games contain real roleplaying? The most important thing in an MMORPG is freedom, freedom to do whatever you want to do. Build a house and harvest grain, or gather an army and destroy a city.
04/15/2001 (4:43 pm)
To me that is the whole point with MMORPG:s. It's another world. When you are playing it, you enter that world. And the ability to build homes is important to make it feel real. It's also important to be able to destroy them ;DHmm, DragonNet is going to support these features. I'm glad I'm not one of the programmes, because that is going to be a tricky one ;) .
MMORPG:s are the only genre that REALLY interests me. What other kind of games contain real roleplaying? The most important thing in an MMORPG is freedom, freedom to do whatever you want to do. Build a house and harvest grain, or gather an army and destroy a city.
#4
You could more or less place your house/castle/whatnot almost anywhere in the games universe. This caused major problem since people were placing houses in areas which were good hunting grounds. You ended up having to go through a maze of buildings just to find monsters. The worst thing was when a castle would pop up in the middle of a hunting ground and trap monsters within them.
In any case the world began to look awful as more and more houses/castles were haphazardly unloaded in areas. In turn a neat idea became a major pain for the game.
Owning your own property in an online game is pretty neat although allowing every Joe and Sue the chance to place their property in the game world is not the way it should be done. At least not in the sense UO did it. A better way is to rent out existing property or have your own property invisible to all but you and those you invite to it.
Sierra's ill fated online RPG, The Realm, used the later example of invisible property. You had your own special two room house, and could have people visit it, but it didn't take up any space in the play world. You would just wander to the screen where the properties were and you would be magically at your house. Although it doesn't have the 'wow' factor of inviting people in to your castle that just placed near a lava pit, its still yours and you could do what you wanted with it (there were some furnishings you could move around and I had placed a few cat pelts on the ground to make it look like I had a rug).
Renting would also work out since you're using your in-game money to hold an existing location as your own. Again this wouldn't litter up the world and would use what is already there.
On the other hand, as mentioned before, owning property is a big deal if all those Ebay auctions can be believed. I'm sure there are many customers keeping their accounts on UO just because they don't want to see that property they purchased go bye-bye. So looking at the perspective of revenu it would be a good thing.
From a design point of view I would get rid of all that stuff in favor of keeping the world as playable as possible and not an eyesore.
04/17/2001 (11:12 am)
I played UO the first several months before the PKilling got too out of hand for me, so I'm not sure how it is now, but owning houses the game was something done very poorly and something I don't look forward to seeing in other online games.You could more or less place your house/castle/whatnot almost anywhere in the games universe. This caused major problem since people were placing houses in areas which were good hunting grounds. You ended up having to go through a maze of buildings just to find monsters. The worst thing was when a castle would pop up in the middle of a hunting ground and trap monsters within them.
In any case the world began to look awful as more and more houses/castles were haphazardly unloaded in areas. In turn a neat idea became a major pain for the game.
Owning your own property in an online game is pretty neat although allowing every Joe and Sue the chance to place their property in the game world is not the way it should be done. At least not in the sense UO did it. A better way is to rent out existing property or have your own property invisible to all but you and those you invite to it.
Sierra's ill fated online RPG, The Realm, used the later example of invisible property. You had your own special two room house, and could have people visit it, but it didn't take up any space in the play world. You would just wander to the screen where the properties were and you would be magically at your house. Although it doesn't have the 'wow' factor of inviting people in to your castle that just placed near a lava pit, its still yours and you could do what you wanted with it (there were some furnishings you could move around and I had placed a few cat pelts on the ground to make it look like I had a rug).
Renting would also work out since you're using your in-game money to hold an existing location as your own. Again this wouldn't litter up the world and would use what is already there.
On the other hand, as mentioned before, owning property is a big deal if all those Ebay auctions can be believed. I'm sure there are many customers keeping their accounts on UO just because they don't want to see that property they purchased go bye-bye. So looking at the perspective of revenu it would be a good thing.
From a design point of view I would get rid of all that stuff in favor of keeping the world as playable as possible and not an eyesore.
#5
IMHO I feel that MMORPGs have detracted from the true experience of Pen and Paper RPG games. They were so much better. i really appreciate what Vampire: The Masquerade did, but I still feel a level is missing. Nothing beats sitting around with a group of pals and a GM, you can truly live your character. I think on many MMORPG's many people don't see it as role playing, and honestly it is really hard for me to roleplay some of the characters. Because everyone complains about character deaths and such, there are no consequences for insulting someone or something. A game that is supposed to come out soon, the name escapes me, allows for PKing, but it's policed by NPC's in different areas. This is a lot better than a stupid Tomb of Dischord. Another problem with MMORPG's is that everyone fits a standard mold. I really like the way AC handled new characters, and how the world was new, and no one knew what was going on, etc. MMORPG's have a long way to go. No one feels attached to their characters, I certainly don't, unless I invest hours of play online, which bores me after awhile. Even with implemented research systems, I still feel like my character is unique. In a P&P game, I felt like the hero of the hour, running out to save the princess, or the crusty old hobbit who followed the hero, in search of gold and ale. MMORPG's have no depth, it is their greatest let down. I don't even remember why this forum started, but you guys were talking about crummy MMORPG's. So there is my rant, ta da!
04/18/2001 (10:26 am)
EDIT: Looking back on this, it makes no sense, just me rambling.IMHO I feel that MMORPGs have detracted from the true experience of Pen and Paper RPG games. They were so much better. i really appreciate what Vampire: The Masquerade did, but I still feel a level is missing. Nothing beats sitting around with a group of pals and a GM, you can truly live your character. I think on many MMORPG's many people don't see it as role playing, and honestly it is really hard for me to roleplay some of the characters. Because everyone complains about character deaths and such, there are no consequences for insulting someone or something. A game that is supposed to come out soon, the name escapes me, allows for PKing, but it's policed by NPC's in different areas. This is a lot better than a stupid Tomb of Dischord. Another problem with MMORPG's is that everyone fits a standard mold. I really like the way AC handled new characters, and how the world was new, and no one knew what was going on, etc. MMORPG's have a long way to go. No one feels attached to their characters, I certainly don't, unless I invest hours of play online, which bores me after awhile. Even with implemented research systems, I still feel like my character is unique. In a P&P game, I felt like the hero of the hour, running out to save the princess, or the crusty old hobbit who followed the hero, in search of gold and ale. MMORPG's have no depth, it is their greatest let down. I don't even remember why this forum started, but you guys were talking about crummy MMORPG's. So there is my rant, ta da!
#6
I have yet to play any online RPG more advanced than a MUD (Realms of Despair, has anyone who reads these even heard of it?), and find that they have more perceived depth to them. The players there seem to enjoy roleplaying more than anything else...
04/19/2001 (2:00 pm)
Could you have specific lots available to have houses built on, only allow building up to a certain distance away from an existing house, or charge an exponential rate the further away from a town center the house is placed?I have yet to play any online RPG more advanced than a MUD (Realms of Despair, has anyone who reads these even heard of it?), and find that they have more perceived depth to them. The players there seem to enjoy roleplaying more than anything else...
#7
I was driven crazy when people talk of Diablo 2 and Icewind Dale as RPGs... there isn't any role playing in those games at all. Everything about them is combat-centered and have specific goals. Yes, those are fun games, but the industry is waaay over-using the "RPG" tag.
I think we're years and years off from being able to provide people with a 'true' role-playing experience on a computer...
04/24/2001 (12:42 pm)
Maybe a little off topic, but I would argue that I have never played nor seen a true Role-Playing game for the computer. The problem is there are many people that dislike P-Killing, hate having things stolen, hate con-men, don't want to lose items when they die, etc. If someone wants a true role-playing experience they need to accept players playing other roles as well. I recall a user on AC that was booted because he was tricking people into bad trades. I see this as a role, other people whined and got him kicked off.I was driven crazy when people talk of Diablo 2 and Icewind Dale as RPGs... there isn't any role playing in those games at all. Everything about them is combat-centered and have specific goals. Yes, those are fun games, but the industry is waaay over-using the "RPG" tag.
I think we're years and years off from being able to provide people with a 'true' role-playing experience on a computer...
#8
04/24/2001 (5:04 pm)
Just wish I had the modeling manpower to do it...
#9
I even have writers to help with this sort of thing.
We'd need one to two dozen modelers depending on talent time and effort, 5 good programmers with different specialties, and then a good Director/Project Leader.
In all your talking about a big company likely to get little money for what they are doing the first few times they do it.
If you are serious about RPG making, scale it down to your resources like I have been designing an RPG to do.
Best of all, it can be very unique that way.
You can take shortcuts that no one would know aren't intended as the story line, small things that in all save hundreds of hours of art development, and come out on top with a good RPG.
Does anyone here know if V12 can handle pre-rendered scenes well?
This requires large, high quality, high color bitmaps with a lot of modeling and calculations, exact location placement, and many other things.
Many games do it, 3D illusions look better than real 3D when you don't really need real 3D.
04/24/2001 (10:23 pm)
If anyone is really interested in creating a good kick ass RPG, contact me.I even have writers to help with this sort of thing.
We'd need one to two dozen modelers depending on talent time and effort, 5 good programmers with different specialties, and then a good Director/Project Leader.
In all your talking about a big company likely to get little money for what they are doing the first few times they do it.
If you are serious about RPG making, scale it down to your resources like I have been designing an RPG to do.
Best of all, it can be very unique that way.
You can take shortcuts that no one would know aren't intended as the story line, small things that in all save hundreds of hours of art development, and come out on top with a good RPG.
Does anyone here know if V12 can handle pre-rendered scenes well?
This requires large, high quality, high color bitmaps with a lot of modeling and calculations, exact location placement, and many other things.
Many games do it, 3D illusions look better than real 3D when you don't really need real 3D.
Andrew Chapman
That aside, some of the ideas for MMORPGs are interesting. What would get me closer to paying is one wherein I can interact with anything I see (even if the building does nothing more than creak, something has happened, I am happy). No more experience, let me go to someone who can teach me the basics of the skill, then let me go out and wreak havoc trying to master it.
I heard someone say that UO had some of these things, but on the same breath they made some rather disparaging remarks about it's security. Does it's security suck? How easy is it to break security on most MMORPGs, and how does one combat it?