Does it worth while ...
by Alberto · in Artist Corner · 07/07/2006 (1:03 pm) · 7 replies
Hello
...purchasing an high end package for animations ?
I mean, software such as Maya, XSI etc have been originally developed to create animations for movies rather than for games
Let's consider the following points :
#1 Number of bones and tris per character
No pratical limitation for a movie , let's say 30 - 40 bones , 3000 - 4000 tris, max for a game
#2 keyframes
Few animations with a lot of keyframes in a movie ,the direct opposite for games
#3 Advanced features : Phisics - Animations blending - Functional curves - Collisions - path finding etc
Key issues for a movies, almost useless for games
These features are implemented on the fly by the game engine,.
Off line animations are normaly on the spot
Obviously I'am talking about an Indie game programmer and taking into duly account the huge price difference , thousand dollars for Maya etc vs a few dollars for MilkShape, CharacterFX FragMotiion
Thanks in advance for your opinion
...purchasing an high end package for animations ?
I mean, software such as Maya, XSI etc have been originally developed to create animations for movies rather than for games
Let's consider the following points :
#1 Number of bones and tris per character
No pratical limitation for a movie , let's say 30 - 40 bones , 3000 - 4000 tris, max for a game
#2 keyframes
Few animations with a lot of keyframes in a movie ,the direct opposite for games
#3 Advanced features : Phisics - Animations blending - Functional curves - Collisions - path finding etc
Key issues for a movies, almost useless for games
These features are implemented on the fly by the game engine,.
Off line animations are normaly on the spot
Obviously I'am talking about an Indie game programmer and taking into duly account the huge price difference , thousand dollars for Maya etc vs a few dollars for MilkShape, CharacterFX FragMotiion
Thanks in advance for your opinion
#2
Anyway my question was
What's the advantage of 3d Studio Max ( or XSI or Maya ) vs Character FX, MlkShape , FragMotion etc
as far as animations for games are concerned ?
It seems a silly question ( maybe it is) considering the price difference but honestly I dont' know the answer
I asked the same question some time ago on an other forum
I got a lot of answer but honestly none of them was reasonable, in my opinion, of course
I got the impression that they had in mind animation for movies (Demo's, advertisement,etc)
Animation for games are quite simple.
07/07/2006 (1:52 pm)
XSI 5.1 is much cheaper then 3d Studio Max but still not comparable with FragMotion ...Anyway my question was
What's the advantage of 3d Studio Max ( or XSI or Maya ) vs Character FX, MlkShape , FragMotion etc
as far as animations for games are concerned ?
It seems a silly question ( maybe it is) considering the price difference but honestly I dont' know the answer
I asked the same question some time ago on an other forum
I got a lot of answer but honestly none of them was reasonable, in my opinion, of course
I got the impression that they had in mind animation for movies (Demo's, advertisement,etc)
Animation for games are quite simple.
#3
Shows how much I know 'bout XSI, though, eh? heh.
07/07/2006 (1:59 pm)
I cannot speak to MilkShape, unfortunately. The reason I use 3D Studio Max is about it's modelling power, which is directly applicable to games. The workflow available to it is much more powerful than any other modelling tool I've used (and I'm familiar with a fair number of them). In particular, it has a very incredibly non-destructive modifier stack that allows you to do incredibly powerful things in a fashion that allows you to say "Oh, I should've had more polys in the cube I started with" and go back and change that, and in most cases you do not have to start over.Shows how much I know 'bout XSI, though, eh? heh.
#4
Definitly 3D Studio Max etc .. are much better than Milkshape etc...also for game application
07/07/2006 (2:18 pm)
No point about "modelling"Definitly 3D Studio Max etc .. are much better than Milkshape etc...also for game application
#5
One main advantage to using a more expensive package like Max, Maya, XSI, and Lightwave is the ability to do all of your 3D work in a single application. There is no need to import/export files to/from other applications for modeling then texturing then rigging then animation then export. Feature lists aside (it's all marketing speak anyway), the workflow is much smoother when you only have to deal with one application.
Another advantage to using the more expensive packages is the access you get to large user communities with tons of resources for learning, extending the applications, and support. Chances are you'll have a much easier time finding hundreds of tutorials, sample files, plugins, and scripts for Max and Maya than you would for some of the cheaper options. The fact that the big apps are used in professional studios works to an indie's advantage. Someone's already done the work before you, and you can learn from them.
Speaking specifically for animation, Max/Maya/XSI/Lightwave blow all the cheaper apps out of the water. I have been a Max and Maya user for over 10 years now, and I have tried out some of the less-expensive apps. To be frank, trying to animate with the less-expensvie apps feels like I'm trying to animate with both hands tied behind my back. You can get some stuff done in the cheaper apps, but they don't work nearly as quickly and smoothly. The more expensive applications have been designed, tested, and proven in production environments. The tools have been used in both feature film and game studios time and time again and continue to be developed and improved.
If all you're concerned about is money, then don't even bother looking at Max, Maya, etc. Stick with the free and/or cheap apps. You can do some of the same things, but you have to make some concessions in ease of use and overall workflow. However, if you can afford to pay the relatively high price of the bigger apps, it's definitely worth it.
07/07/2006 (4:04 pm)
Alberto:One main advantage to using a more expensive package like Max, Maya, XSI, and Lightwave is the ability to do all of your 3D work in a single application. There is no need to import/export files to/from other applications for modeling then texturing then rigging then animation then export. Feature lists aside (it's all marketing speak anyway), the workflow is much smoother when you only have to deal with one application.
Another advantage to using the more expensive packages is the access you get to large user communities with tons of resources for learning, extending the applications, and support. Chances are you'll have a much easier time finding hundreds of tutorials, sample files, plugins, and scripts for Max and Maya than you would for some of the cheaper options. The fact that the big apps are used in professional studios works to an indie's advantage. Someone's already done the work before you, and you can learn from them.
Speaking specifically for animation, Max/Maya/XSI/Lightwave blow all the cheaper apps out of the water. I have been a Max and Maya user for over 10 years now, and I have tried out some of the less-expensive apps. To be frank, trying to animate with the less-expensvie apps feels like I'm trying to animate with both hands tied behind my back. You can get some stuff done in the cheaper apps, but they don't work nearly as quickly and smoothly. The more expensive applications have been designed, tested, and proven in production environments. The tools have been used in both feature film and game studios time and time again and continue to be developed and improved.
If all you're concerned about is money, then don't even bother looking at Max, Maya, etc. Stick with the free and/or cheap apps. You can do some of the same things, but you have to make some concessions in ease of use and overall workflow. However, if you can afford to pay the relatively high price of the bigger apps, it's definitely worth it.
#6
Money is a tool like any other; if you can afford a luxury model, go for it. I understand they built the pyramids with a fairly limited toolset...flew to the moon and back with probably less computing power than the average PDA of today....anything is possible if you make it so. Starting from zero to learn anything 'new' is still starting from zero...
07/07/2006 (4:26 pm)
I think the biggest difference really is perhaps some IK features of anchoring and solvers, and the tracksheets and how much keyframe data you can manipulate. Proper vertex weighting is next most important difference, I feel; each program's ability to handle this with 'acceptable' deformations. And lastly, how much can you get out of your exporter, remember; we're still juggling data to get at our target format. Hmm....Max/unMess/DTS??? there's a handshake for ya, ;)...!Money is a tool like any other; if you can afford a luxury model, go for it. I understand they built the pyramids with a fairly limited toolset...flew to the moon and back with probably less computing power than the average PDA of today....anything is possible if you make it so. Starting from zero to learn anything 'new' is still starting from zero...
Torque Owner Cliff
It does cover several of the points you mention, though, and for a slightly lower pricepoint.