Does the "TSE Commercial License" include TGE? (newbie alert)

#1 No, it does not, you must purchase the TGE Commercial License and THEN purchase the TSE commercial license as TGE is needed to buy the EA of TSE.

Not a stupid question, no worries =)

#2 I cannot give you an answer, sorry, hopefully someone else will... but why would you want a TGE license to go with a TSE license?

FWIW, at this time you can only get a TSE Early Adopter license if you are an existing TGE customer, and I understand there will be an upgrade path where your cost of TSE will be less the cost of TGE, so I am inclined to think you probalby will get a TGE license with your TSE license.

But this is pure supposition, so do not take it as anything more than that.

#3 And Jonathon is the winner *ding* *ding* *ding*

;)

#4 Hrm... based on that, Andrew, if somebody was concerned about getting both, and with the upgrade path including a deduction that is exactly the cost of TGE, I'd be inclined to think that someone that wanted both licenses should buy TGE and then upgrade to TSE.

Man, I hate it when you respond to a message and then someone deletes the post you were responding to. heh.

#5 There is no deduction for owning TGE. TSE is not an 'upgrade' from TGE, it is an entirely new engine.

#6

Quote:No. TGE and TSE are seperate products. However, at this time you can only get TSE by first owning TGE. TSE is in Early Adopter mode.

Quote:Hrm... based on that, Andrew, if somebody was concerned about getting both, and with the upgrade path including a deduction that is exactly the cost of TGE, I'd be inclined to think that someone that wanted both licenses should buy TGE and then upgrade to TSE.

That was exactly what spawned my confusion. And it's definitely not clear as to whether the Commercial license of the TSE requires the TGE license (Indie or Commercial).

Can someone point me to a page which explains that? Thanks!

#7 I'm still curious, though... why do you want the TGE? The TSE is like the TGE on steroids, so I'm not sure there's good reason to have both.

#8 I stand corrected. If you want the INDIE version of TSE than you must own the indie version of TGE to purchase it. The commercial version of TSE has no such limitations on it.

So the answer is no, you do not get TGE with ANY TSE purchase and yes you can purchase the commercial version of TSE without buying the commercial or indie version of TSE.

#9 @cliff -

TGE = good for prototyping quickly
TSE = good for final product

#10

Quote:I'm still curious, though... why do you want the TGE? The TSE is like the TGE on steroids, so I'm not sure there's good reason to have both.

Well, that the root of my question, I guess.

My interpretation (which I admit, is most likely erroneous) is that the TSE is simply an upgrade "3D engine and renderer" to the one which ships with TGE.

The TGE has many features like the Network library, Sound library, WYSIWIG editing environment, and other tools which I was unsure were (or were not) included in the TSE (assuming that the TSE only upgrades the 3D engine/renderer).

Hence my confusion... :)

#11 TSE is not an upgraded version of TSE. Again, it's a completely different engine. Once finished, it will most likely have all the same tools (and possibly more) that TGE has. It's in EA (early adopters) right now which means it isn't feature complete.

#12 Let me rephrase... :)

Can you construct a decent prototype/techdemo with the TSE (Commercial) alone? Or does the TSE (Comm.) require the TGE to make a functioning prototype?

I'm really just trying to figure out how to best spend my alloted budget to get a decent prototype off the ground quickly, but also to make something that is compelling as well (the latter criteria seems to require the TSE in order to make something that is reasonably compelling graphically).

Am I still missing something? :)

#13 TGE is also good for when your target audience is likely to not have beefy hardware.

At the risk adding to anyone's confusion, if I remember correctly I believe that the cost of TGE + TSE EA was going to be less than the TSE release price. Take that with a grain of salt, because I'm just recalling something from quite some time ago, so that may not be the case now.

#14 @Jamie - You can do anything in TSE that you can do in TGE, but it will take longer and you need more skilled programmers for TSE. If you are just wanting to prototype something, I would suggest doing it in TGE.

#15 Hey Jonathon,

Quote:@Jamie - You can do anything in TSE that you can do in TGE, but it will take longer and you need more skilled programmers for TSE. If you are just wanting to prototype something, I would suggest doing it in TGE.

But if we start with the TGE, are we going to be forced to upgrade to TSE EA (Commercial) eventually in order to create something that takes advantage of Shader Model 1.x, 2.x, or 3.x? (thinking down the road for potential XBOX 360 or XBOX 360 Live Arcade as well)

#16 The more we talk about this the more I'm starting to get an inkling that the TGE (Commercial) is a requirement, no matter what. :)

Reason being that the TGE contains tools/code which the TSE does not (at the moment due to the "Early Adopter" status) and we'd be better served developing our codebase with the TGE and upgrading the assets (models, textures, shaders, etc.) for the TSE at the later time (when the TSE is ready).

Any thoughts on that approach? (it's more expensive, but that's all relative, of course). ;)

#17 If you want shaders, you need TSE. You can add Cg (Nvidia's shader stuff) to TGE, but not fully and not without hacking and slashing at TGE. There are a couple resources for adding 2 of the 40+ shaders to TGE. TSE already has them all integrated.

The EULA for TSE Commercial does not list any TGE requirements, whereas the EULA for TSE INDIE does. This tells me that TGE IS NOT needed to purchase the commercial version of TSE. If you are going to buy TSE anyway, I would do it now. If you don't need to pump out a quick demo or prototype, then don't bother with TGE.

#18 That isn't a bad approach, I started in TGE and now am moving to TSE. You'll have to rebuild terrains and such in TSE as the old stuff is small and zoned and the TSE stuff is seemless.

#19 Jamie - As I understand it, the intent of the two engines breaks down like this:

TGE is good for modern to older systems.
TSE is good for modern to high-end systems.

I don't remember exactly where I read it, but I'd say if you just start with the TGE that you would have to upgrade to the TSE to get advanced shaders and XBox 360 stuff, though it's worth mentioning that my understanding of the TSE 360 licensing is a pretty individual basis, so you'll probably need to have something solid to show to get the license.

Of coz, standard caveat applies here, this is all based on my own memory of things I've read in the past... so I could be wrong about any of it, but I don't think I am. heh.

#20 But are there tools in the TGE that may help us with the initial stages of development?

I'd hate to miss out on all of the "Torque Goodies" that may (someday) be in the TSE but are not currently. I'm getting closer to understanding the incestual relationship between TSE and TGE, thanks for your help so far Jonathon, Cliff, and Co.!