Why Not Free?

#1 If you don't like the license, go use Wild Tangent's stuff.

I'm sure the stuff they give you has been used in retail games and has the support of thousands of dedicated people and has four industry veterans running it all. I'm sure it looks great, and has features that can be built upon by beginners and experts. I'm sure it has solid netcode and simple to use tools.

No wait. It doesn't.

GarageGames is made up of people that has been around the block and back, and obviously put careful planning into their pricing model and license agreement. $100 is lower than any engine source worth using (in my opinion: Quake 3, Lithtech, and Torque) and the license agreement is excellent.

Just because you don't have the $100 (or don't want to mow lawns to get it) doesn't mean it's not the best plan. Sure, you don't have the $100 right now... but if you really want to make a game you'll get it.

This system weeds out the big annoyances like having a majority of the users being children since $100 isn't something all kids have to burn, and it will support GarageGames while games are being developed. Even if a game doesn't come out for sale, GarageGames will have enough cash to support themselves. The initial purchase of a license will help cover that.

Your complaint don't make sense. "I want to use it, but I'd rather not spend $100". Don't want to spend $100 on something you might not use, but still want the option to use it? Do you even see the rediculousness of your statement?

GarageGames is a company, and until some games are released and sold they'll need some cash to keep afloat. The $100 price is low for most anyone to get, but is enough to keep GarageGames doing a good job with the engine and the community.

Next time, don't make such outlandish demands. I know I'd be laughed out of the building if I demanded that Id software gave me the source code to the Quake 3 engine for free, or begged Microsoft for the code for windows to support indie game development.

#2 $100 is a great price. I kind of like the fact that there's a barrier to entry into Torque using community because it probably filters out a lot of people who would come around here and be jackasses but never get anything done because they aren't serious. I mean, obviously we still get some of those people, but less I think.

If you absolutely can't afford the $100, there are other alternatives -- use them. I don't mean to sound harsh, but that's the way these things work. There are open source engines you can use (or you can write your own) if you don't feel comfortable paying $100 for Torque... For the vast majority who come to this site and are serious about making games, its worth a lot more than $100 so I don't think a price drop (especially to free) is needed or will happen soon.

#3 If you can't afford to pay $100 for an engine that can compete with $300,000 engines, how did you afford your compiler? You didn't pirate it, did you? (After going to your website for "Mercenary Wars" and finding warez...). You don't have to pay upfront and then pay later...you pay upfront, period. When you decide to sell your game (assuming people would pay for it), GG splits the royalties 50/50...while that is kind of high, that's how your basic distributer works. They get a cut of the fee for providing their services, and you get a cut of the fee for making a game. And in the real world, businesses need money to run. How does GarageGames make money to stay in business? Wait......yep.......of course! You've got it.

#4 As a side note ...

Matt, being a veteran of WildTangent, I have to agree with you, I personally think WT stinks.

If you want to use C++ for speed then you have to access the COM interfaces ... yuck! It's getting better but in my small opinion, it stinks and in no way comes near Torque, even with all the investors behind it!

You want web-based gameplay? Use Wildtangent.
You want 'real' cutting edge games, save a bit of money, invest in Torque and you won't be disappointed.

I'm just one person in many who are actively participating in the design and implementation of neat and powerful features that should make Torque stand out on it's own. The whole community can participate.

Wildtangent support their 'free' community on a 'if-we-have-time' basis.

- Melv.

#5 ................

#6 Personally, I would prefer GG to bump the license to $300 per seat, or higher. They disagree though, for their own reasons...

#7 garagegames = company
companies need money to survive.
Also, do you think they got the engine for free?

And your statement "pay them now, and pay even more later", just isn't right. Right now you have to pay a small fee, if you don't like that you can always mod realm wars (=free). In the end they take a big cut out of the profits.... but do you really think that's so special. Every publsiher takes a huge cut out of the profits. Why? Becuase they sell your game, they make publicity, they look into distribution of the game etc...they simply get paid to do their job. Actually Garagegames is the last one to rip you off.
Its good they charge 100$, keeps people like you off the forums. Next thing you ask for is "why don't you code my game for free"
get real man, Torque is a good deal (low cost, and you get a good engine and the garantee your game will be published (altough its trough online sales.... but you can't get everything you want))

#8 ..........

#9 Your thinking it will generate more business but they need the $100 fee to help get the company ramped up till they blow up (get big). $100 is too low. It should be $300 or more. IMO.

Randy...

#10 Hi Michael,

Just want to start by saying that I'm not being impolite to you, I was just airing my small opinions regarding Wildtangent Technology, something that I could rant on about all day but I won't bore others needlesly.

It may be arrogant of me to state other peoples opinions but I think it's the general concensus that GarageGames is trying to get the indie developer back into the loop without attracting every person who has delusions of games development on their mind. These kind of people come along, want the world laid infront of them and subsequently cry and stamp when they don't get it.

Please don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying that you are in that bracket, it's just that I would think that you understand that having hard working community members who are at least motivated enough to invest a little money are much more preferable than people who simply are passing through, making a noise and then leaving.

I tend to agree with Ken.

#11 ...........

#12 Michael,

I suspect that you are reading this post and first of all I want to say that I do not mean to insult you with what I am typing here, so I apoligize in advanced if I do.

I find it humorous that you judge a community of thousands based on the response that you get from what little time that you have spent with us. Sure there are some people in this community that could use a lesson in "tact" but you know what, this is a community of people from various demographics brought together by a single ideal and purpose and I for one appreciate these differences that people bring to discussions regardless if they acted professional or not in their postings.

As for people choosing not to add comments to message that you post, well that is the choice of each individual. No one is forced to post a comment and most people simply do not have the time to sit here online and comment every single thing that is posted on the forums because we would get nothing done.

My final comment is this...to develop games on your own or to even get into the industry you need to make sacrifices and allocate resources towards making your goal a reality. If you cannot do this then you simply will not succeed at this goal, its a simple fact.

If you do want to make games, then you will need to suck up your gut, take this stuff like a man (sorry for the sexist comment ladies), and continue onward with your goal at the best location on the internet for independant games development, here at GarageGames.

Logan

#13 I would also like to thank GG for the $100. NO ONE, absolutely no one, that cannot afford $100 is going to make a great indie game. Sorry, you wont. YOu dont have the time or dedication. If you DID, then getting $100 would not be an obstacle.

So, the $100 really just acts as a barrier to those who arent dedicated enough in the first place. I kind of first step in the natural selection process for developers.

That, of course, is just my opinion. :)

Also, let us get the facts straight about your posts. You made 4:
"Does anyone know this?" (or something to that affect, asking when the RW task list will go live)
0 replies.
"2d coloring techniques" 1 reply
This thread.
"Free Idea!!!!"
4 replies, one of which was mine pointing you towards the game you wanted to look at.

The first two were titled rather vaugely, which accounts for some of the lack of replies. People arent inspired to read something if they have no idea what it is asking, it is just a sign of lack of though on the questioner's part.

Also, the one was about art. Most of us here are programmers, so that explains the lack of responses there.

So, you see, there are reasons for this apparent "meanness" of the torque community. We are not abusive to all newcomers. We welcome those who show signs of dedication and enthusiasm.

#14 Ok ok, Id rather just not hear anymore.

So I am retracting everything I said.

But I am not lacking in dedication and ambition.

Good Luck to everybody on what ever they are working on, Ill talk to you later probally, hopefully on a more friendly subject that won't get blown out of proportion.

Michael

#15 @Randy - why would you want to spend $300 for something when you can get it for $100? If the $200 is still spare, you can send it to me! :)

#16 These kind of posts get way too much attention... any other dead horses around to flog? How about spending the time answering someone's valid question or coming up with some of your own...

-J