3ds max 7 dts exporter bugs
by Yuri Dobronravin · in Artist Corner · 07/03/2006 (7:54 am) · 19 replies
Hello!
I have a few questions about dts exporter for 3ds max 6,7,8.
I've spent plenty of time trying to get it work for things like reflection, but failed eventually.
I've also discovered that models with same features exports just fine with 3dmax 5 (all works exactly like it described in tutorials).
I read a lot of forum threads about this stuff.
So here's my conclusions, please correct me if I'm wrong.
1) 3dmax 7 exporter still has some bugs, that max5 exporter doesnt have.
Does anybody has a list of known 3dmax7 exporter's bugs?
2) Environmental map reflection doesnt work correctly with 3dmax7,
however you can try to make some tricks, as it was described here.
3dmax5 do it just fine.
3) I was trying to export orc model (player.max) from the original starter.fps pack without
success. Everytime I tried Max7 crashed, because of "=Params::T2AutoDetail 250" string in cfg file.
This topic was covered in several threads, but it still doesn't clear to me what should I do export Orc with automatic LODs. Is it possible?
When I tried to export Orc in 3dmax5 it crashed in same fashion.
4) I have models created in 3max7.
Is there a way to convert them to 3max5, because 3max5 exporter works so fine for torque.
I would appreciate any help or additional information.
Thanks.
I have a few questions about dts exporter for 3ds max 6,7,8.
I've spent plenty of time trying to get it work for things like reflection, but failed eventually.
I've also discovered that models with same features exports just fine with 3dmax 5 (all works exactly like it described in tutorials).
I read a lot of forum threads about this stuff.
So here's my conclusions, please correct me if I'm wrong.
1) 3dmax 7 exporter still has some bugs, that max5 exporter doesnt have.
Does anybody has a list of known 3dmax7 exporter's bugs?
2) Environmental map reflection doesnt work correctly with 3dmax7,
however you can try to make some tricks, as it was described here.
3dmax5 do it just fine.
3) I was trying to export orc model (player.max) from the original starter.fps pack without
success. Everytime I tried Max7 crashed, because of "=Params::T2AutoDetail 250" string in cfg file.
This topic was covered in several threads, but it still doesn't clear to me what should I do export Orc with automatic LODs. Is it possible?
When I tried to export Orc in 3dmax5 it crashed in same fashion.
4) I have models created in 3max7.
Is there a way to convert them to 3max5, because 3max5 exporter works so fine for torque.
I would appreciate any help or additional information.
Thanks.
#2
Thank you very much for your prompt response. Torque has a great community indeed.
But I still have same problems and I'm using the latest version of exporter.
Here's the example shape I was trying to made reflective. It's just a simple box, created in 3ds max 7
www.logicking.com/box_reflection.zip
I even use original Orc's texture, because it has a proper alpha channel.
I also tried the example from TDN tutorial
tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/Advanced_Material_Tutorial
I took shape from here: www.garagegames.com/blogs/1449/7138
And assigned reflective material instead of health.jpg. It works perfectly with 3dmax 5 and
does nothing when I try same file in max 7.
As I said in my previous post, I've tried to do tricks from this thread : unlock an ambient color field or assign a texture with different (from diffuse channel) name to reflection channel. And I got reflection working, but it was never correct, there are always been strange visual bugs on model.
07/03/2006 (3:11 pm)
@ L FosterThank you very much for your prompt response. Torque has a great community indeed.
But I still have same problems and I'm using the latest version of exporter.
Here's the example shape I was trying to made reflective. It's just a simple box, created in 3ds max 7
www.logicking.com/box_reflection.zip
I even use original Orc's texture, because it has a proper alpha channel.
I also tried the example from TDN tutorial
tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/Advanced_Material_Tutorial
I took shape from here: www.garagegames.com/blogs/1449/7138
And assigned reflective material instead of health.jpg. It works perfectly with 3dmax 5 and
does nothing when I try same file in max 7.
As I said in my previous post, I've tried to do tricks from this thread : unlock an ambient color field or assign a texture with different (from diffuse channel) name to reflection channel. And I got reflection working, but it was never correct, there are always been strange visual bugs on model.
#3
It was in max2dtsExporterPlus. I've recompiled it by myself with max7 sdk.
Here you can find solution:
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=47578
07/12/2006 (3:38 pm)
Seems like I found the bug with reflection export. It was in max2dtsExporterPlus. I've recompiled it by myself with max7 sdk.
Here you can find solution:
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=47578
#4
In trying to figure out a problem with LODs I stumbled upon this thread.
I'm kind of puzzled - my experience with different versions of Max and their DTS exporters has, in some ways, been the opposite of what you describe.
For instance, billboards don't work for me when exported from Max 7, but they work fine exporting from Max 5.
In this thread www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=48057 I talk about how I can't get the LOD levels to switch when exporting from Max 7. This also works fine when I export from Max 5.
I've more than once wondered if I should just stick with Max 5, and in what other ways the Max 7 exporters are going to let me down. I ran this by Joe Maru, and last I checked he seems to be sticking with Max 5 tools.
Joe mentioned pretty much the same thing. Can anyone tell me why this is? Why wouldn't GarageGames put some emphasis on maintaining their own exporters? I'm looking at the latest IotD with the 1.5 release and all its features, and it seems crazy to have all that good stuff hinging on exporters that, to me anyway, seem like a pretty weak link.
Hope this doesn't sound pissy. It's the wee hours, and I've been trying to get this damn thing to work right all night.
09/13/2006 (3:40 am)
@Logan: In trying to figure out a problem with LODs I stumbled upon this thread.
I'm kind of puzzled - my experience with different versions of Max and their DTS exporters has, in some ways, been the opposite of what you describe.
For instance, billboards don't work for me when exported from Max 7, but they work fine exporting from Max 5.
In this thread www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=48057 I talk about how I can't get the LOD levels to switch when exporting from Max 7. This also works fine when I export from Max 5.
I've more than once wondered if I should just stick with Max 5, and in what other ways the Max 7 exporters are going to let me down. I ran this by Joe Maru, and last I checked he seems to be sticking with Max 5 tools.
Quote:Unfortunately this is the price that you pay when you leave the exporter updates up to the community.
Joe mentioned pretty much the same thing. Can anyone tell me why this is? Why wouldn't GarageGames put some emphasis on maintaining their own exporters? I'm looking at the latest IotD with the 1.5 release and all its features, and it seems crazy to have all that good stuff hinging on exporters that, to me anyway, seem like a pretty weak link.
Hope this doesn't sound pissy. It's the wee hours, and I've been trying to get this damn thing to work right all night.
#5
I use the DTS Exporter that is available on the Artists page (which IMHO is one of the most invalable but also the most hidden and god awful page to find on the site). I have seen a lot of other compiles floating all over the place and referenced here on the site, all of which have varrying degrees of issues with them.
For example, I was using one compile that couldn't handle Multires LODs properly. It would export DTSs but the DTSs would crash Torque when you tried to load them in the engine. The only way that I found I had an incorrect compile was checking the file with Danny Ngan, and when he got it to export fine we looked at the plugin and found that the version I was running wasn't the same as his (which he got from the artists page).
With the plugin from the Artists page, I haven't had any issues with Max 6 thru 8 with regards to billboards or LOD, but there have been some other annoying issues like visibility animations not being processed properly. So you win some and you lose some I guess.
With regards to using Max5, you certainly could, but personally I haven't ever had the range of problems with the exporter from the artists page to warrent it. I have used the exporters in Max 7 and 8 longer than probably anyone here in the community and never once have I had an issues that warrented rolling back to Max 5. If you like, fire me an email and I will send you the DLE I am using.
In regards to the community plug-in updates. Sadly I have to agree with Joe on this one, it is a problem, a big nasty problem that makes Torque and GarageGames look really really bad.
I really don't want to poke at old wounds, but I know that I (and others) have asked, bitched, complained, whined and even begged the powers that be to look into seriously supporting the Torque plugins internally to no avail. I honestly do not know the reason for this, I have my speculations, but honestly its not something worth bringing up here in a public forum post. What I do know though is that I think we all kind of looked the other way the first few years of Torque because this was just a startup pain, but I personally find it harder and harder to look the other way when I am unable to do my work 100% because of bugs, issues, lack of updates, etc. with the tools.
I honestly don't think that we are asking for a lot here, just reliable tools that do the job, enhance productivity (not decrease it as some of the current DTS+ exporters seem to be doing), support the latest version of our application so that we can push any and all beneficial features and productivity work flows in and offer some updates such as allowing for multiple UVW channels.
Anyways that's a shorted version of my complaints on the subject. I whole heartedly feel your frustrations Spencer, drop me a line if you want me to fire over the DLE that I am using.
Logan
09/13/2006 (9:23 am)
@SpencerI use the DTS Exporter that is available on the Artists page (which IMHO is one of the most invalable but also the most hidden and god awful page to find on the site). I have seen a lot of other compiles floating all over the place and referenced here on the site, all of which have varrying degrees of issues with them.
For example, I was using one compile that couldn't handle Multires LODs properly. It would export DTSs but the DTSs would crash Torque when you tried to load them in the engine. The only way that I found I had an incorrect compile was checking the file with Danny Ngan, and when he got it to export fine we looked at the plugin and found that the version I was running wasn't the same as his (which he got from the artists page).
With the plugin from the Artists page, I haven't had any issues with Max 6 thru 8 with regards to billboards or LOD, but there have been some other annoying issues like visibility animations not being processed properly. So you win some and you lose some I guess.
With regards to using Max5, you certainly could, but personally I haven't ever had the range of problems with the exporter from the artists page to warrent it. I have used the exporters in Max 7 and 8 longer than probably anyone here in the community and never once have I had an issues that warrented rolling back to Max 5. If you like, fire me an email and I will send you the DLE I am using.
In regards to the community plug-in updates. Sadly I have to agree with Joe on this one, it is a problem, a big nasty problem that makes Torque and GarageGames look really really bad.
I really don't want to poke at old wounds, but I know that I (and others) have asked, bitched, complained, whined and even begged the powers that be to look into seriously supporting the Torque plugins internally to no avail. I honestly do not know the reason for this, I have my speculations, but honestly its not something worth bringing up here in a public forum post. What I do know though is that I think we all kind of looked the other way the first few years of Torque because this was just a startup pain, but I personally find it harder and harder to look the other way when I am unable to do my work 100% because of bugs, issues, lack of updates, etc. with the tools.
I honestly don't think that we are asking for a lot here, just reliable tools that do the job, enhance productivity (not decrease it as some of the current DTS+ exporters seem to be doing), support the latest version of our application so that we can push any and all beneficial features and productivity work flows in and offer some updates such as allowing for multiple UVW channels.
Anyways that's a shorted version of my complaints on the subject. I whole heartedly feel your frustrations Spencer, drop me a line if you want me to fire over the DLE that I am using.
Logan
#6
Thanks for the offer to share your exporter. I'll be sending an email in a bit.
I find art tools tend to be neglected in game development in general. One reason, especially in the case of a semi-open-source community like GG, is that the people using art tools are usually the least able to fix them.
Even in game companies though, the impression I've gotten was that, for some reason, art tools are the job programmer are least drawn to. Tools ain't sexy. Not like graphics programming, or physics, or AI.
Also, it probably doesn't help that, no matter how much work programmers put into tools, we artists still find something to complain about :).
Still, it's astounding that GG isn't more hands-on with the exporters. I'm slow to criticize GG, since their mission and all their work is such a boon to indies, and it's frequently a thankless task. So rather than bitch, I'd prefer to point out that a 3rd party tool like Torque succeeds in large part on ease of use, and quirky little glitches can torpedo one's productivity. Not focusing on these tools is just putting up a roadblock to success - theirs and ours.
Personally, I'll take an engine with fewer features that work reliably over a huge jumble of flaky almost-greatness any day. I don't need tools to help me be flaky, I can do that on my own.
I'm on such a tight schedule that getting blindsided by this LOD problem for a day is a major blow. Still, when I stop to think about it, GG must be on a similarly tight schedule in the struggle to succeed, and maybe that's why they can't devote resources to these exporters.
Not to say we shouldn't gripe. We should, but nicely :). And consistently. Squeaky wheel, and all that.
09/13/2006 (2:34 pm)
Logan, Thanks for the offer to share your exporter. I'll be sending an email in a bit.
I find art tools tend to be neglected in game development in general. One reason, especially in the case of a semi-open-source community like GG, is that the people using art tools are usually the least able to fix them.
Even in game companies though, the impression I've gotten was that, for some reason, art tools are the job programmer are least drawn to. Tools ain't sexy. Not like graphics programming, or physics, or AI.
Also, it probably doesn't help that, no matter how much work programmers put into tools, we artists still find something to complain about :).
Still, it's astounding that GG isn't more hands-on with the exporters. I'm slow to criticize GG, since their mission and all their work is such a boon to indies, and it's frequently a thankless task. So rather than bitch, I'd prefer to point out that a 3rd party tool like Torque succeeds in large part on ease of use, and quirky little glitches can torpedo one's productivity. Not focusing on these tools is just putting up a roadblock to success - theirs and ours.
Personally, I'll take an engine with fewer features that work reliably over a huge jumble of flaky almost-greatness any day. I don't need tools to help me be flaky, I can do that on my own.
I'm on such a tight schedule that getting blindsided by this LOD problem for a day is a major blow. Still, when I stop to think about it, GG must be on a similarly tight schedule in the struggle to succeed, and maybe that's why they can't devote resources to these exporters.
Not to say we shouldn't gripe. We should, but nicely :). And consistently. Squeaky wheel, and all that.
#7
09/13/2006 (10:41 pm)
Im all ears about problem/ issues with the exporters. If you take the time to explain your issues and problems with them they can be addressed. I know a few of you are not terribly fond of the new exporter but none of you have ever talked to me about it. Thats a hint, send me an email sometime. :)
#8
When you say, "new exporter" are you talking specifically about the Dark Industries version of the exporter? The one discussed here.
Or are you also handling the tools found on the Artist page?
What is it people don't like about the new exporter?
For my part, when it's come to the problems I've had with the Artist page version of the Max 7 exporter - specifically with auto-billboarding and this other problem with LODs - I've made a point of also exporting with the Dark Industries exporter, to see if it would work better. In both cases, as it happens, it didn't. This led me to think that maybe the Dark Industries exporter and the Artist page exporter were the same basic code under the hood, and since I was more familiar with the old version, there I stayed.
But I applaud your efforts to improve the exporters, and if you want to fix these problems while you're at it, you'll get a standing ovation :).
If you want to test out the billboard problem, just try it on the BraveTree Tree Pack file FTree02_BB. I'm sure Joe could set you up with that for testing. Or he could give me the OK to send you a copy of just that file from the pack I bought.
For the LOD problem, I'm having basically the problem described here: here. If you'd like, I could send you a test file of that too.
-Spencer
09/13/2006 (11:18 pm)
@Matt: When you say, "new exporter" are you talking specifically about the Dark Industries version of the exporter? The one discussed here.
Or are you also handling the tools found on the Artist page?
What is it people don't like about the new exporter?
For my part, when it's come to the problems I've had with the Artist page version of the Max 7 exporter - specifically with auto-billboarding and this other problem with LODs - I've made a point of also exporting with the Dark Industries exporter, to see if it would work better. In both cases, as it happens, it didn't. This led me to think that maybe the Dark Industries exporter and the Artist page exporter were the same basic code under the hood, and since I was more familiar with the old version, there I stayed.
But I applaud your efforts to improve the exporters, and if you want to fix these problems while you're at it, you'll get a standing ovation :).
If you want to test out the billboard problem, just try it on the BraveTree Tree Pack file FTree02_BB. I'm sure Joe could set you up with that for testing. Or he could give me the OK to send you a copy of just that file from the pack I bought.
For the LOD problem, I'm having basically the problem described here: here. If you'd like, I could send you a test file of that too.
-Spencer
#9
Actually I had forwarded a big list to Josh Williams a few months back at GG back when he was in charge of 3rd party stuff (he had asked for feedback hence why I sent it to him and not you directly). I had assumed that they had shown this stuff to you, which I guess is not the case.
Give me a bit I will have to dig the document up and fire it over.
09/14/2006 (8:51 am)
@MattActually I had forwarded a big list to Josh Williams a few months back at GG back when he was in charge of 3rd party stuff (he had asked for feedback hence why I sent it to him and not you directly). I had assumed that they had shown this stuff to you, which I guess is not the case.
Give me a bit I will have to dig the document up and fire it over.
#10
(actually, I'm going to forward at least one of the emails I sent to Josh to you right away)
09/14/2006 (9:01 am)
Hm. I sent a (while not huge, at least decently sized) list to Josh too, if you really never got this stuff PLEASE let us know Matt.(actually, I'm going to forward at least one of the emails I sent to Josh to you right away)
#11
@ magnus: I know Ive talked with you about the new exporter needing Start01 and Base01 nodes for skinned objects and issues with Bip01 if you can forward me any other issues you have that would be great.
@Spencer: BraveTree Tree Pack so I will take a look at it. The most common problem with LODs using the new exporter is actually caused by having the old max exporter and the new exporter installed at the same time. Max is pretty dumb about how it handles file export calls from MaxScript. Basically all you can do is tell it what file type to export and it chooses the export plugin to use on its own. Having both exporters installed usually results in the old exporter being used which has LOD problems that have to be fixed after export using the "DTS unmess" utility. If you look in the file export list you'll notice 2 sepertate DTS export options and 2 seperate DSQ options.
For anyone else that has expierences bugs or issues with the exporter please do not hesitate to contact me. It is also hepfull if you can send me sample files that have the problems so I can use them to verify, test and correct the issues.
09/14/2006 (9:38 am)
Sounds good guys, send me your comments questions, pet peves etc and we'll get them addressed.@ magnus: I know Ive talked with you about the new exporter needing Start01 and Base01 nodes for skinned objects and issues with Bip01 if you can forward me any other issues you have that would be great.
@Spencer: BraveTree Tree Pack so I will take a look at it. The most common problem with LODs using the new exporter is actually caused by having the old max exporter and the new exporter installed at the same time. Max is pretty dumb about how it handles file export calls from MaxScript. Basically all you can do is tell it what file type to export and it chooses the export plugin to use on its own. Having both exporters installed usually results in the old exporter being used which has LOD problems that have to be fixed after export using the "DTS unmess" utility. If you look in the file export list you'll notice 2 sepertate DTS export options and 2 seperate DSQ options.
For anyone else that has expierences bugs or issues with the exporter please do not hesitate to contact me. It is also hepfull if you can send me sample files that have the problems so I can use them to verify, test and correct the issues.
#12
09/14/2006 (9:42 am)
Yes, I believe my early comments were sent directly to you, but the later emails were only sent to Josh/Tim Aste since they for some reason requested us to do so... In either case, I've forwarded one mail with a bunch of ramblings. =)
#13
Based on your suggestions, I think I've got those LODs working.
I had previously found the post saying the old exporter was the problem. So I went to the Artist Page and made sure I had that exporter, which I would define as the "new" exporter. After all, it's got to be the newest if it's on the GG artist page, right?
But I take it when you say "old" exporter you mean that same exporter that's on the artist page?
For clarification, I'm going to refer to them as the Artist Page (AP) exporter and the Dark Industries (DI) exporter. "New" and "old" aren't descriptive enough.
The AP exporter, even the latest one from the GG site, was not exporting LODs correctly from Max 7. (The AP Max 5 exporter did work for me, though). I had the same problem with the DI exporter in Max 7 - but only when the AP exporter was also installed. At Matt's suggestion, I deleted the AP exporter, leaving only the DI exporter - that seemed to work.
Thanks for the help!
09/14/2006 (1:43 pm)
@MattBased on your suggestions, I think I've got those LODs working.
I had previously found the post saying the old exporter was the problem. So I went to the Artist Page and made sure I had that exporter, which I would define as the "new" exporter. After all, it's got to be the newest if it's on the GG artist page, right?
But I take it when you say "old" exporter you mean that same exporter that's on the artist page?
For clarification, I'm going to refer to them as the Artist Page (AP) exporter and the Dark Industries (DI) exporter. "New" and "old" aren't descriptive enough.
The AP exporter, even the latest one from the GG site, was not exporting LODs correctly from Max 7. (The AP Max 5 exporter did work for me, though). I had the same problem with the DI exporter in Max 7 - but only when the AP exporter was also installed. At Matt's suggestion, I deleted the AP exporter, leaving only the DI exporter - that seemed to work.
Thanks for the help!
#14
My assumptions...
**************************
What is referred to above as DI , in the TGE 1.4 days this was the "new one"
"MaxDtsExporter_RC3.exe" is the Dark Industries exporter. this was released July 13, 2006 from this page:
www.garagegames.com/mg/snapshot/view.php?qid=1238
This was released to be used with TGE 1.4
What is referred to above as AP , in the TGE 1.4 days this was the "old one"
I'm guessing this is the one that you "installed" by adding it as a plug-in to 3ds max like any other plug-in. One of the 2 needed files was "max2dtsExporter.dle".
I have these 2 files in a folder named:
.\dts_max_allversions\Max6-7-8
***************************
Now, where are we at folks?
What is the .dts exporter to be used with TGE 1.5 that works with max 7 and max 8?
In the TGE 1.5 installed directory we have the source code:
TGE 1.5 .\SDK\tools\max2dtsExporter
TGE 1.5 .\SDK\tools\max2dtsExporterPlus
TGE 1.5 .\SDK\tools\max2dtsExporterPro
What are these?
and then this...
TGE 1.5 .\SDK\tools\max2dtsExporterPro\max_install\readme.txt
In this file it says "Close Max and then Run the self installing exe."
Is this speaking of "MaxDtsExporter_RC3.exe" or is this refering to a compiled version from one of the folders listed above, and, this is different from "MaxDtsExporter_RC3.exe" because it is designed for TGE 1.5?
If the answer to my last question is "yes", is this meant to run with max 7 and max 8?
To sum up, my final question is...
What exporter do I use ,specifically, with Max 8 for TGE 1.5?
Thanks,
Chad
01/01/2007 (5:05 pm)
Do I have this right?My assumptions...
**************************
What is referred to above as DI , in the TGE 1.4 days this was the "new one"
"MaxDtsExporter_RC3.exe" is the Dark Industries exporter. this was released July 13, 2006 from this page:
www.garagegames.com/mg/snapshot/view.php?qid=1238
This was released to be used with TGE 1.4
What is referred to above as AP , in the TGE 1.4 days this was the "old one"
I'm guessing this is the one that you "installed" by adding it as a plug-in to 3ds max like any other plug-in. One of the 2 needed files was "max2dtsExporter.dle".
I have these 2 files in a folder named:
.\dts_max_allversions\Max6-7-8
***************************
Now, where are we at folks?
What is the .dts exporter to be used with TGE 1.5 that works with max 7 and max 8?
In the TGE 1.5 installed directory we have the source code:
TGE 1.5 .\SDK\tools\max2dtsExporter
TGE 1.5 .\SDK\tools\max2dtsExporterPlus
TGE 1.5 .\SDK\tools\max2dtsExporterPro
What are these?
and then this...
TGE 1.5 .\SDK\tools\max2dtsExporterPro\max_install\readme.txt
In this file it says "Close Max and then Run the self installing exe."
Is this speaking of "MaxDtsExporter_RC3.exe" or is this refering to a compiled version from one of the folders listed above, and, this is different from "MaxDtsExporter_RC3.exe" because it is designed for TGE 1.5?
If the answer to my last question is "yes", is this meant to run with max 7 and max 8?
To sum up, my final question is...
What exporter do I use ,specifically, with Max 8 for TGE 1.5?
Thanks,
Chad
#15
This is the "old" exporter, and it works just fine with max 6, 7 and 8. (It is possible to compile it for max9 too, but it takes some messing with the code. If you want a compiled version for max9 search the forums, I posted it somewhere).
max2dtsExporterPlus
This is... well... pure crap. I don't even know what this was supposed to be. It uses the new dtsSDKPlus, but it doesn't seem to support anything but basic mesh exporting. No animation. Pretty much; stay clear, don't bother, don't use it.
max2dtsExporterPro
This is the Dark Industries exporter, you don't have to run any installer, just copy the various files into your max folder. This exporter should work with max 6-7-8 too, and it's reasonably easy to recompile for max9 (I haven't done it though since I prefer to use the old exporter).
I'm not sure how much have been changed between the RC3 and the stuff in TGE 1.5, probably nothing but you'd have to ask someone else for a definite answer there.
As for which one to use, I use the old one. If you can live with the oddities of the DI exporter (it's still pretty dependent on the clunky interface etc) I suppose that one works too.
The actual DTS format haven't changed in ages so there's no "designed for 1.5" things... use whatever works.
01/01/2007 (5:18 pm)
max2dtsExporterThis is the "old" exporter, and it works just fine with max 6, 7 and 8. (It is possible to compile it for max9 too, but it takes some messing with the code. If you want a compiled version for max9 search the forums, I posted it somewhere).
max2dtsExporterPlus
This is... well... pure crap. I don't even know what this was supposed to be. It uses the new dtsSDKPlus, but it doesn't seem to support anything but basic mesh exporting. No animation. Pretty much; stay clear, don't bother, don't use it.
max2dtsExporterPro
This is the Dark Industries exporter, you don't have to run any installer, just copy the various files into your max folder. This exporter should work with max 6-7-8 too, and it's reasonably easy to recompile for max9 (I haven't done it though since I prefer to use the old exporter).
I'm not sure how much have been changed between the RC3 and the stuff in TGE 1.5, probably nothing but you'd have to ask someone else for a definite answer there.
As for which one to use, I use the old one. If you can live with the oddities of the DI exporter (it's still pretty dependent on the clunky interface etc) I suppose that one works too.
The actual DTS format haven't changed in ages so there's no "designed for 1.5" things... use whatever works.
#16
max2dtsExporter
This is the original, and it mostly worked fine for me too, until I migrated to Max 7. Then I realized that I no longer had control over LOD distances. The exported DTS would have LODs, but I couldn't control the distance at which they'd switch. You're supposed to be able to control this with the trailing numbers of objects within Max. For me that stopped working when I went to Max 7. I might be kind of unique in that I prefer to hand-build my LODs, while other people like to use Multires to auto-generate them.
Either way, this made the original - what I've been calling Artist Page - exporter unusable to me.
Dark Industries Exporter
I tried this out, and switched to it after having the LOD problems with the old exporter. The LODs export perfectly with the DI exporter. However, I found the DI exporter would not export my characters. It was built with certain assumptions as far as object naming, and the fact that my characters used Biped threw it off. I've been talking to Matt Summers (the DI exporter creator) and it sounds like he has a fix in the works.
Now, I'm puzzled by a couple things Magnus says above:
The only DI exporter I've seen comes as just an installer. And this installer places a DLE called max2dtsExporterPlus.dle in my plugins directory, not one named "pro".
See above :). max2dtsExporterPlus.dle is what's installed when I run the DI exporter. And like I said, the DI exporter is actually pretty nice, and getting better.
How is it we're getting such different impressions? I know Magnus really knows his stuff, so I'm wondering if we're getting exporters from different sources.
What seems obvious to me is that the whole exporter situation is a bit of a mess. Exporters are, obviously, crucial to getting art into a game, and these exporters should be maintained by the vendors. Exporters are not the kind of thing that should be left to the community to sort out (which, as I understand it, is the current policy).
This is especially true of art tools, because artists tend to take tools as they come. If there's a problem with an exporter, most game artists won't take the steps to fix them. Because most game artists - with the exception of folks like Magnus - don't know how (I certainly don't). So while game artists who are getting paid to use an engine will tough it out, the game artists who are just playing around and just want to get their art in a game will migrate to freely available engines and tools that are easier to use, and that work.
01/02/2007 (9:30 am)
I have a slightly different take on this: max2dtsExporter
This is the original, and it mostly worked fine for me too, until I migrated to Max 7. Then I realized that I no longer had control over LOD distances. The exported DTS would have LODs, but I couldn't control the distance at which they'd switch. You're supposed to be able to control this with the trailing numbers of objects within Max. For me that stopped working when I went to Max 7. I might be kind of unique in that I prefer to hand-build my LODs, while other people like to use Multires to auto-generate them.
Either way, this made the original - what I've been calling Artist Page - exporter unusable to me.
Dark Industries Exporter
I tried this out, and switched to it after having the LOD problems with the old exporter. The LODs export perfectly with the DI exporter. However, I found the DI exporter would not export my characters. It was built with certain assumptions as far as object naming, and the fact that my characters used Biped threw it off. I've been talking to Matt Summers (the DI exporter creator) and it sounds like he has a fix in the works.
Now, I'm puzzled by a couple things Magnus says above:
Quote:max2dtsExporterPro
This is the Dark Industries exporter, you don't have to run any installer, just copy the various files into your max folder.
The only DI exporter I've seen comes as just an installer. And this installer places a DLE called max2dtsExporterPlus.dle in my plugins directory, not one named "pro".
Quote:max2dtsExporterPlus
This is... well... pure crap. I don't even know what this was supposed to be.
See above :). max2dtsExporterPlus.dle is what's installed when I run the DI exporter. And like I said, the DI exporter is actually pretty nice, and getting better.
How is it we're getting such different impressions? I know Magnus really knows his stuff, so I'm wondering if we're getting exporters from different sources.
What seems obvious to me is that the whole exporter situation is a bit of a mess. Exporters are, obviously, crucial to getting art into a game, and these exporters should be maintained by the vendors. Exporters are not the kind of thing that should be left to the community to sort out (which, as I understand it, is the current policy).
This is especially true of art tools, because artists tend to take tools as they come. If there's a problem with an exporter, most game artists won't take the steps to fix them. Because most game artists - with the exception of folks like Magnus - don't know how (I certainly don't). So while game artists who are getting paid to use an engine will tough it out, the game artists who are just playing around and just want to get their art in a game will migrate to freely available engines and tools that are easier to use, and that work.
#17
The stuff in \SDK\tools\max2dtsExporter is the original one, \SDK\tools\max2dtsExporterPlus is... something very strange and useless (or so it seems to me, if someone in the know care to explain what this stuff is supposed to do I'd love to hear it!) and \SDK\tools\max2dtsExporterPro is the DI exporter. If you look a bit further you'll find the DI exporter already compiled in \SDK\tools\max2dtsExporterPro\max_install\ (the .dle have apparently been renamed max2dtsExporterPro.dle too, most likely to avoid confusion. hehe).
01/02/2007 (10:40 am)
There is definitely some confusion regarding the names, if you look in the folder \SDK\tools in TGE 1.5 it will all make sense.The stuff in \SDK\tools\max2dtsExporter is the original one, \SDK\tools\max2dtsExporterPlus is... something very strange and useless (or so it seems to me, if someone in the know care to explain what this stuff is supposed to do I'd love to hear it!) and \SDK\tools\max2dtsExporterPro is the DI exporter. If you look a bit further you'll find the DI exporter already compiled in \SDK\tools\max2dtsExporterPro\max_install\ (the .dle have apparently been renamed max2dtsExporterPro.dle too, most likely to avoid confusion. hehe).
#18
Thanks for clearing that up. I don't have 1.5 yet, and the DI exporter I've used has either been a download for testing, or an updated version directly from Matt.
01/02/2007 (2:24 pm)
@Magnus, Thanks for clearing that up. I don't have 1.5 yet, and the DI exporter I've used has either been a download for testing, or an updated version directly from Matt.
#19
There were rumblings over a year ago about new exporters that would address a lot of bugs. It seems like everyone is just using the old exporters for characters?
04/25/2007 (10:02 am)
Yeah I am wondering what the deal is with the new DI exporter? It appears to be shrouded in mystery. I definitely have problems exporting characters with it. (The animations will not load into Showtool Pro.)There were rumblings over a year ago about new exporters that would address a lot of bugs. It seems like everyone is just using the old exporters for characters?
Associate Logan Foster
perPixel Studios
1. There are a few issues that the Max 4 & 5 exporters have that the Max 6, 7 and 8 exporters cannot do and vice versa. Unfortunately this is the price that you pay when you leave the exporter updates up to the community.
For example Max 4/5 exporter cannot do Billboards or BillboardZ while the Max6/7/8 exporter will hick-up sometimes on a node thats missing the multires modifier and crash when returning to Max after exporting.
2. Sorry you are going to have to explain whats wrong, I haven't ever had an issue with the TGE environmental reflection on a DTS before with any of the exporters from Max 3 to Max 8. The reflection channel has to be checked (sometimes a few of us like to cheat and just drag a copy of the diffuse texture there), the bitmap that you are using has to be a PNG and the same files as the Diffuse map slot and that PNG must have an alpha channel within it (white pixels on the alpha will reflect while black pixels wont) and lastly you need to have the code turned on within torque so it knows that your model is reflective.
In regards to your problem that you mentioned about reflection, there has never been an issue with exporting the reflection flag out to a DTS with any of the exporters. My suggestion would be to ensure that you try the exporter on the [urk=http://www.garagegames.com/developer/torque/artist/]artists page[/url].
3. Sometimes the exporter will crash but this is after it has successfully compiled the DTS and is returning to Max. Aside from that all I can say is that I have gotten the Orc to successfully export fine to a DTS with auto LOD generation.
4. Once again the Max 7 exporter works perfectly fine. I and many others have used it in paying production work without any issues or hick-ups that have affected us. Like I said try using the exporter from the artists page and see if that resolves your issues.