TGB Browser Plugin like Flash
by Clint Herron · in Torque Game Builder · 06/21/2006 (9:33 am) · 11 replies
First off, I don't want this to disintegrate into a Flash vs. TGB discussion -- there are plenty of other threads for discussing that. Also, I did search the forums and the rest of GG for discussion about this, and didn't find much on it, so while I don't think I'm repeating a discussion that's already been hashed to death, please forgive me if I do.
What I want to discuss here is the potential that TGB has to be a serious competitor to Flash in the online casual web browser game market.
"Lunacy!" you may utter in hushed breath. "Possibly..." I would concede, but I hope you're interested enough to hear me out.
In order for something to be a browser plugin like Flash, there has to be a single signed binary executable by a reputable company. Macromedia has done this with Flash, to the point where Flash is almost a necessity for browsing the web these days. They are a very reputable company which has taken great pains to ensure the security of their software, and people rarely think twice before running their plugin.
One problem with Java applets is that you have to accept them and install them everytime you want to play a different little Java game. That gets *really* annoying, and people don't want to have to do that to play a bunch of Java casual games. They just want it to work!
I think that TGB has great potential, because you can use the stock version of TGB (I.E. the "nocode" license) to build a wide variety of games without having to modify the core engine. This makes TGB very similar to Flash.
Perhaps you're seeing the potential now, perhaps not. If your minds eye has yet to be enlightened, then allow me to continue.
If a stock version of TGB were made into a browser plugin, then all that would be left is to allow that TGB plugin to load the resources (media and .dso files) and play them. The TGB Plugin could be signed officially by GarageGames and people would only have to install it once. All of the game's files (media and .dso) would be zipped up much like a .wad file and loaded at run-time (just like what Flash does with .swf files).
Of course, security issues would have to be considered. Number one is the disabling of "real" file access. One solution is for the unpacked zip file to reside only in memory, and all game read/writes would take place only in that virtual drive. I don't want to spiral too deeply into a technical "howto" about this, but I bring it up merely for to emphasize the feasability of having a single signed Garage Games TGB binary that people can install once and run a myriad of games built by TGB users.
I don't know how many of you have ever developed games in Flash, but I can tell you from personal experience that it is a pain. As has been discussed elsewhere, it just isn't designed to create games! This is where TGB shines above Flash -- TGB was developed specifically with games in mind!
I just really think that the Garage Games website could be a wonderful portal for distributing casual games, not only in downloadable format, but also in the browser-based casual market.
Alas, I feel it is time to bring this rant to a close. I feel better now for having gotten it out of my system.
So is this something that other people agree with? Have wondered about themselves? Unbeknownst to all of us, has TGB been developed with this in mind all along? If not, perhaps I should jump on this idea, develop it myself and sell it to TGB casual game developers. :)
Whether you have faithfully plodded through the above drivel or have merely skipped down here to the end, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this matter.
Thanks!
Respectfully,
clint herron
What I want to discuss here is the potential that TGB has to be a serious competitor to Flash in the online casual web browser game market.
"Lunacy!" you may utter in hushed breath. "Possibly..." I would concede, but I hope you're interested enough to hear me out.
In order for something to be a browser plugin like Flash, there has to be a single signed binary executable by a reputable company. Macromedia has done this with Flash, to the point where Flash is almost a necessity for browsing the web these days. They are a very reputable company which has taken great pains to ensure the security of their software, and people rarely think twice before running their plugin.
One problem with Java applets is that you have to accept them and install them everytime you want to play a different little Java game. That gets *really* annoying, and people don't want to have to do that to play a bunch of Java casual games. They just want it to work!
I think that TGB has great potential, because you can use the stock version of TGB (I.E. the "nocode" license) to build a wide variety of games without having to modify the core engine. This makes TGB very similar to Flash.
Perhaps you're seeing the potential now, perhaps not. If your minds eye has yet to be enlightened, then allow me to continue.
If a stock version of TGB were made into a browser plugin, then all that would be left is to allow that TGB plugin to load the resources (media and .dso files) and play them. The TGB Plugin could be signed officially by GarageGames and people would only have to install it once. All of the game's files (media and .dso) would be zipped up much like a .wad file and loaded at run-time (just like what Flash does with .swf files).
Of course, security issues would have to be considered. Number one is the disabling of "real" file access. One solution is for the unpacked zip file to reside only in memory, and all game read/writes would take place only in that virtual drive. I don't want to spiral too deeply into a technical "howto" about this, but I bring it up merely for to emphasize the feasability of having a single signed Garage Games TGB binary that people can install once and run a myriad of games built by TGB users.
I don't know how many of you have ever developed games in Flash, but I can tell you from personal experience that it is a pain. As has been discussed elsewhere, it just isn't designed to create games! This is where TGB shines above Flash -- TGB was developed specifically with games in mind!
I just really think that the Garage Games website could be a wonderful portal for distributing casual games, not only in downloadable format, but also in the browser-based casual market.
Alas, I feel it is time to bring this rant to a close. I feel better now for having gotten it out of my system.
So is this something that other people agree with? Have wondered about themselves? Unbeknownst to all of us, has TGB been developed with this in mind all along? If not, perhaps I should jump on this idea, develop it myself and sell it to TGB casual game developers. :)
Whether you have faithfully plodded through the above drivel or have merely skipped down here to the end, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this matter.
Thanks!
Respectfully,
clint herron
About the author
#2
06/21/2006 (9:41 am)
I am sure that making the plugin wouldn't be difficult. The problem is getting the users to install it. Flash is so widely used because it has a rediculous penetration rate. I think it is on 90% of systems with browsers. 
#3
06/21/2006 (9:43 am)
Sam is right. Igloader is a great option right now. There are a few issues that still have to be worked out. (The end user has to download the plugin - but the same is true for flash.) But right now you can pretty much drop a finished TGB game into the Igloader framework and playing your game in a browser.
#4
@ Sam M: I checked out igloader, and while it looks good, wouldn't that require every TGB game developer to acquire their own license? It's about $60 per game to license their plugin -- that's over half the cost of TGB right there. If TGB developers didn't have to go through a 3rd party like igloader, that would give them a leg up on the rest of the competition, and could be a huge selling point for TGB over other casual development systems.
Thanks for the feedback!
--clint
06/21/2006 (9:44 am)
Ah yes, sorry -- I meant to mention that, but I ran over the character limit in my post and forgot to squeeze it in with my editing.@ Sam M: I checked out igloader, and while it looks good, wouldn't that require every TGB game developer to acquire their own license? It's about $60 per game to license their plugin -- that's over half the cost of TGB right there. If TGB developers didn't have to go through a 3rd party like igloader, that would give them a leg up on the rest of the competition, and could be a huge selling point for TGB over other casual development systems.
Thanks for the feedback!
--clint
#5
I agree -- getting the user to accept it and install it is the tough thing. But I think that people could be convinced to install it if it was promoted with the "play games" aspect of the GarageGames website. Imagine people looking up Marble Blast online, and see that they can play it online with their friends without having to go through XBox Live Arcade. That would be a pretty big incentive for them to install the "GarageGames Browser Portal" or some such thing to play GG games, especially if GG was especially promising to not take over one's system etc etc etc. Installing this one plugin could give people access to loads of games on the GG website, and they wouldn't have to re-install or re-accept a game every time they wanted to try a new one (just like Flash).
Could the igloader framework accomplish this? Is it a install-once-run-many plugin? I've never used it, and didn't see a simple answer on their website.
Thanks!
--clint
06/21/2006 (9:50 am)
Wow, fast replies. In the space of time it took me to post my last one, two more showed up!Quote:Originally posted by Ian Poma:
I am sure that making the plugin wouldn't be difficult. The problem is getting the users to install it. Flash is so widely used because it has a rediculous penetration rate. I think it is on 90% of systems with browsers.
I agree -- getting the user to accept it and install it is the tough thing. But I think that people could be convinced to install it if it was promoted with the "play games" aspect of the GarageGames website. Imagine people looking up Marble Blast online, and see that they can play it online with their friends without having to go through XBox Live Arcade. That would be a pretty big incentive for them to install the "GarageGames Browser Portal" or some such thing to play GG games, especially if GG was especially promising to not take over one's system etc etc etc. Installing this one plugin could give people access to loads of games on the GG website, and they wouldn't have to re-install or re-accept a game every time they wanted to try a new one (just like Flash).
Could the igloader framework accomplish this? Is it a install-once-run-many plugin? I've never used it, and didn't see a simple answer on their website.
Thanks!
--clint
#6
So yes, igLoader is certainly a very viable option, but because of security/intrusiveness, I'm not sure it holds the same potential for casual games.
Cheers!
--clint
P.S. I really hope I don't come across here as bashing igLoader -- it honestly looks like a great product. However, I still lean towards thinking that a TGB plugin would be better for casual games (especially for ones hosted directly on the GG website). I'm not so dogmatic that I couldn't be shown otherwise though.
06/21/2006 (10:15 am)
Another word about igLoader:Quote:Originally posted by Tim FisherAnd further on down in the same thread he said:
Any Application or Game run within igLoader should be considered as a local install. igLoader does not run the application on the host, it launches the application on the local (client) machine, igLoader does not provide any layers of emulation or translation. Your application will not be limited in functionality.
Quote:Originally posted by Tim FisherSo apparently, all applications run within igLoader are individually signed, and there is no layer of abstraction to make the applications more secure. So if you wrap malware with igLoader then igLoader will load it and run it, making no fuss if your software chooses to reformat the person's hard drive or silently troll for credit card information. Granted, igLoader reviews each game before they give you a license key and they can revoke your license key at any time so that your software will no longer run within igLoader, but it's all still a bit of a scary thought.
I must stress that igLoader is client based software, it downloads and installs the applications before launching them. It is not a server based system such as Citrix.
Think of igLoader as an automated installer and embedder. It automates the delivery, installation and the launching of the applications within the browser window.
So yes, igLoader is certainly a very viable option, but because of security/intrusiveness, I'm not sure it holds the same potential for casual games.
Cheers!
--clint
P.S. I really hope I don't come across here as bashing igLoader -- it honestly looks like a great product. However, I still lean towards thinking that a TGB plugin would be better for casual games (especially for ones hosted directly on the GG website). I'm not so dogmatic that I couldn't be shown otherwise though.
#7
There is a TGE browser plugin and while it is cool, is there really an advantage to making your game viewable as a webpage plugin over just download-able and runnable.
In terms of size the executable (for TGE/TSE for windows) is only 3mb w/ optimizations and even less if you compile it for size, however resources for those games come to 100x - 300x that size.
So as it stands due to resource sizes i can't see this working out, unless you have some use that is none-game related?
06/21/2006 (2:44 pm)
The problem i see is that you need a single file that holds all of your .dso's, images, ect.. this could easily be done with a zip labeled as .vl2 however could you get your game down to 5mb zipped? There is a TGE browser plugin and while it is cool, is there really an advantage to making your game viewable as a webpage plugin over just download-able and runnable.
In terms of size the executable (for TGE/TSE for windows) is only 3mb w/ optimizations and even less if you compile it for size, however resources for those games come to 100x - 300x that size.
So as it stands due to resource sizes i can't see this working out, unless you have some use that is none-game related?
#8
The 2D market is not all that great so any type of online distro would be well worth the effort to develop it.
06/21/2006 (3:41 pm)
I can see the need for it. First, if you want to have a online distro,like popcap, it would be cool to let people be able to play a demo level or two and then purchase the game.The 2D market is not all that great so any type of online distro would be well worth the effort to develop it.
#9
There are two advantages in particular for web versions of games. First, as Charlie stated, it lowers the barrier of entry considerably. Lots of people will sit and wait at a web page for a web game to load that won't download, install and run a standalone product. For some it is because it is much easier to do. To others it appears more secure. For whatever reason, lowering the barrier of entry to your demo just means more potential customers get to sample the product.
Second, a web game is a great way to persist your game beyond its initial release. Web games are virtually timeless, particularly when part of a collection of web-based games like Gamehouse, Yahoo, etc. When you look at games over a few months old on sites like those, the games with web versions still see a very steady stream of activity while those without get buried in the catalog.
06/21/2006 (9:22 pm)
@Pauliver: igLoader actually allows for multiple 5MB file chunks, and it does the work of packaging, encrypting and splitting your assets. You don't have to do much aside from tell it what files to include.There are two advantages in particular for web versions of games. First, as Charlie stated, it lowers the barrier of entry considerably. Lots of people will sit and wait at a web page for a web game to load that won't download, install and run a standalone product. For some it is because it is much easier to do. To others it appears more secure. For whatever reason, lowering the barrier of entry to your demo just means more potential customers get to sample the product.
Second, a web game is a great way to persist your game beyond its initial release. Web games are virtually timeless, particularly when part of a collection of web-based games like Gamehouse, Yahoo, etc. When you look at games over a few months old on sites like those, the games with web versions still see a very steady stream of activity while those without get buried in the catalog.
#10
08/12/2006 (1:03 pm)
In case anyone's wondering, I'm still interested in something like this. However, it turns out I'm not the first one to think of something like this for a game engine like Torque -- the guys over at Unity have made a Unity Web Player for doing exactly what I've said -- playing generic Unity games inside of a web browser without making the user install a separate plugin for each game played.
#11
That's what the end user thinks.
01/21/2009 (8:21 pm)
Yes, as always the problem is not the technical side, it is with the end user. They just won't install it a great deal of the time. And honestly, I can't blame them. A plug-in install just to play a game? Another bloated plug-in from an unknown developer/company that could possibly by ridden with bugs, or worse, malware? No thanks.That's what the end user thinks.
Torque Owner Sam M
http://www.igloader.com/